As I mentioned before, I've been keeping track of the averages for each episodes. If you rank the episodes, certain patterns seem to emerge. People really seem to like the Mirror Universe. If you take out Short Treks, three out of the Top Five episodes took place over there. Despite some complaining about the TOS Stuff, people are a sucker for it. "If Memory Serves" easily claims the Top Spot. "The Escape Artist" and "Calypso" are basically tied. I personally think "Calypso" -- which had no TOS ties whatsoever -- is the best episode put out in the Disco Era. Period. I know I'm not alone in thinking this. But "The Escape Artist" held its own against it. It looks like the Klingon War wasn't liked as much, yet "Into the Forest I Go" was the highest rated episode until "If Memory Serves". There's an interesting discussion to be had there. What puts "Into the Forest I Go" above the other Klingon Episodes in posters' minds? Maybe the epic battle, maybe the catharsis, maybe the twist ending. Not including "If Memory Serves" or Short Treks, "New Eden" was the highest rated second season episode among members here. It was also the most "traditional" episode Discovery has ever done. At a 6.7, "The Vulcan Hello" rates lower than any other regular episode, but it also had twice as many people rating it a bad score (anything below a 5). 77 negative ratings out of 397 for "The Vulcan Hello" versus 34 negative ratings out of 311 for "Battle at the Binary Stars". So I imagine it was a case of half the people who sampled DSC decided to bail after the first hour. Maybe they watched on CBS and decided not to get CBS All Access. Or the one episode was all they needed to see. Because "Battle at the Binary Stars" had a 7.4. This is just my opinion, but I don't think there was much of a difference in quality between the two halves of the Series Premiere. "Runaway" only got a 6.5. Maybe because people didn't quite know how to rate a Short yet. But maybe people were wondering what the point of "Runaway" was. It looks like we might find out this week! Here are all the episodes in order of how they were rated, so you can see for yourselves: SORTED BY AVERAGE Avg... Med... Dev... Episode ...... Title 9.1 ..... 9 ...... 1.3 .... DSC 2.08 ..... "If Memory Serves" 8.8 ..... 9 ...... 1.6 .... DSC 1.09 ..... "Into the Forest I Go" 8.8 ..... 9 ...... 1.6 .... DSC 1.10 ..... "Despite Yourself" 8.4 ..... 9 ...... 1.4 .... ST 1.04 ........ "The Escape Artist” 8.4 ..... 9 ...... 2.0 .... ST 1.02 ........ "Calypso" 8.4 ..... 9 ...... 1.7 .... DSC 1.11 ..... "The Wolf Inside" 8.3 ..... 9 ...... 2.2 .... DSC 2.14 ..... "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" 8.3 ..... 9 ...... 1.6 .... DSC 2.02 ..... "New Eden" 8.3 ..... 9 ...... 1.7 .... DSC 2.04 ..... "An Obol for Sharon" 8.3 ..... 9 ...... 1.8 .... DSC 2.01 ..... "Brother" 8.2 ..... 9 ...... 1.6 .... DSC 2.09 ..... "Project Daedalus" 8.2 ..... 9 ...... 2.2 .... DSC 1.13 ..... "What's Past Is Prologue" 8.2...... 9 ...... 1.9 .... DSC 2.13 ..... "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part I" 8.2 ..... 8 ...... 1.6 .... DSC 2.06 ..... "The Sound of Thunder" 8.1 ..... 8 ...... 1.8 .... DSC 2.12 ..... “Through the Valley of Shadows” 8.1 ..... 9 ...... 2.1 .... DSC 1.12 ..... "Vaulting Ambition" 8.0 ..... 8 ...... 1.6 .... ST 1.03 ........ "The Brightest Star" 7.8 ..... 8 ...... 1.9 .... DSC 1.06 ..... "Lethe" 7.8 ..... 8 ...... 2.0 .... DSC 1.05 ..... "Choose Your Pain" 7.8 ..... 8 ...... 1.6 .... DSC 2.07 ..... "Light and Shadows" 7.6 ..... 8 ...... 2.2 .... DSC 1.07 ..... "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" 7.5 ..... 8 ...... 2.1 .... DSC 1.14 ..... "The War Without, The War Within" 7.5 ..... 8 ...... 2.0 .... DSC 1.03 ..... "Context Is for Kings" 7.5 ..... 8 ...... 2.0 .... DSC 2.05 ..... "Saints of Imperfection" 7.5 ..... 8 ...... 2.1 .... DSC 2.10 ..... “The Red Angel” 7.5 ..... 8 ...... 2.5 .... DSC 1.15 ..... "Will You Take My Hand?" 7.4 ..... 8 ...... 2.2 .... DSC 1.02 ..... "Battle at the Binary Stars" 7.3 ..... 8 ...... 2.0 .... DSC 1.04 ..... "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lambs Cry" 7.3 ..... 8 ...... 2.0 .... DSC 2.11 ..... “Perpetual Infinity” 7.2 ..... 7 ...... 1.9 .... DSC 1.08 ..... "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" 7.0 ..... 6 ...... 2.3 .... DSC 2.03 ..... "Point of Light" 6.7 ..... 7 ...... 2.5 .... DSC 1.01 ..... "The Vulcan Hello" 6.5 ..... 7 ...... 2.3 .... ST 1.01 ........ "Runaway” Next is a list sorted by Air Date to track progress over time: SORTED BY AIR DATE Episode........ Avg... Med... Dev... Title DSC 1.01 ..... 6.7 ..... 7 ....... 2.5 ..... "The Vulcan Hello" DSC 1.02 ..... 7.4 ..... 8 ....... 2.2 ..... "Battle at the Binary Stars" DSC 1.03 ..... 7.5 ..... 8 ....... 2.0 ..... "Context Is for Kings" DSC 1.04 ..... 7.3 ..... 8 ....... 2.0 ..... "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lambs Cry" DSC 1.05 ..... 7.8 ..... 8 ....... 2.0 ..... "Choose Your Pain" DSC 1.06 ..... 7.8 ..... 8 ....... 1.9 ..... "Lethe" DSC 1.07 ..... 7.6 ..... 8 ....... 2.2 ..... "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad" DSC 1.08 ..... 7.2 ..... 7 ....... 1.9 ..... "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" DSC 1.09 ..... 8.8 ..... 9 ....... 1.6 ..... "Into the Forest I Go" DSC 1.10 ..... 8.8 ..... 9 ....... 1.6 ..... "Despite Yourself" DSC 1.11 ..... 8.4 ..... 9 ....... 1.7 ..... "The Wolf Inside" DSC 1.12 ..... 8.1 ..... 9 ....... 2.1 ..... "Vaulting Ambition" DSC 1.13 ..... 8.2 ..... 9 ....... 2.2 ..... "What's Past Is Prologue" DSC 1.14 ..... 7.5 ..... 8 ....... 2.1 ..... "The War Without, The War Within" DSC 1.15 ..... 7.5 ..... 8 ....... 2.5 ..... "Will You Take My Hand?" ST 1.01 ........ 6.5 ..... 7 ....... 2.3 ..... "Runaway” ST 1.02 ........ 8.4 ..... 9 ....... 2.0 ..... "Calypso" ST 1.03 ........ 8.0 ..... 8 ....... 1.6 ..... "The Brightest Star" ST 1.04 ........ 8.4 ..... 9 ....... 1.4 ..... "The Escape Artist” DSC 2.01 ..... 8.3 ..... 9 ....... 1.8 ..... "Brother" DSC 2.02 ..... 8.3 ..... 9 ....... 1.6 ..... "New Eden" DSC 2.03 ..... 7.0 ..... 6 ....... 2.3 ..... "Point of Light" DSC 2.04 ..... 8.3 ..... 9 ....... 1.7 ..... "An Obol for Sharon" DSC 2.05 ..... 7.5 ..... 8 ....... 2.0 ..... "Saints of Imperfection" DSC 2.06 ..... 8.2 ..... 8 ....... 1.6 ..... "The Sound of Thunder" DSC 2.07 ..... 7.8 ..... 8 ....... 1.6 ..... "Light and Shadows" DSC 2.08 ..... 9.1 ..... 9 ....... 1.3 ..... "If Memory Serves" DSC 2.09 ..... 8.2 ..... 9 ....... 1.6 ..... "Project Daedalus" DSC 2.10 ..... 7.5 ..... 8 ....... 2.1 ..... “The Red Angel” DSC 2.11 ..... 7.3 ..... 8 ....... 2.0 ..... “Perpetual Infinity” DSC 2.12 ..... 8.1 ..... 8 ....... 1.8 ..... “Through the Valley of Shadows” DSC 2.13 ..... 8.2 ..... 9 ....... 1.9 ..... "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part I" DSC 2.14 ..... 8.3 ..... 9 ....... 2.2 ..... "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part II" Season... Average... Median... Standard Deviation DSC-1 ..... 7.77 .......... 8.2 .......... 2.03 DSC-2 ..... 8.01 .......... 8.4 .......... 1.82
Your data set should allow calculation of the standard deviation and give an idea of the variance in voting, which might be interesting to see.
I'm surprised Butcher's Knife and Context is for Kings were as low as they are. Even with the full *ahem* context and perspective of well over 20 episodes to compare with now, I still like them a great deal. I'm equally surprised Wolf Inside and Escape Artist are as high as they are. I thought Wolf was the weakest of the MU arc, and Escape Artist did almost nothing for me. Interesting information!
Interesting. I've been thinking I'm a bit more negative on DSC than the board average, but the trends you identify basically correspond to my own opinions, with the exception of the fact that I thought "If Memory Serves" was trying way too hard to pander to me, but not pandering to me particularly well or in a way I liked.
I'm a nut for doing this and adding in the Standard Deviation too (still in the middle of working on it). Of course, I also once listened to the Top 20 Billboard Pop Hits for every year from 1947 to 2000. So there we are. It ended up taking me about five days to work my way through half a century of the most popular music. I noticed some interesting trends there too. And it changed my perspective. Every time the style of music changed, it felt "new" to me because I'd listened to so much of whatever the previous style was, back-to-back-to-back. The biggest take-away I had from that experience was: the styles keep changing and it'll never go back to the way it was, even if people keep clamoring for the Old. Likewise with Star Trek, the style will keep changing and it'll never go back to what some are clamoring for. Even when it does hearken back, it'll be different in some way.
Rather surprised to see Context Is for Kings and Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad so low - they'd be among my top half-dozen Discovery episodes.
Magic should be even lower. I know it’s a popular episode but I didn’t care for it at all. The very early episodes (Vulcan Hello, etc) should be higher but I guess more haters were watching and voting early on, and gradually less of them stuck around.
I agree. It is one of my least favourites. It's possible that it's just because I'm not a great fan of Mudd in general, as well as the overuse of the timeloop plot. Then again, it does have a disco on the Disco, so there is at least one redeeming feature. On the issue of the earlier episodes, it might not just be due to the haters. I think I was less forgiving at the time because the early episodes felt unsatisfying way back then. Whilst I enjoyed them, I don't think I appreciated then quite as much as I did after the whole of the first series has ended.
I don't agree. With Calypso, I consider it one of the best eps of the series so far and rank it above even the best ep this year. The plot is awesome in it layers with regards to the behind the scenes battle between Mudd and Stamets and Wilson's performance as Mudd was a Tour de Force. However, i am aware that many were offended by this interpretation of Mudd, and few seemed to understand what was going on and simple labeled it as a ripoff of Cause and Effect (which it only resembles on the most superficial of levels) showing that early on many viewers were still in knee-jerk mode when watching the show. . As a brilliantly executed ep witch elevates the form and challenged me as a viewer about as much more than just about any Trek episode I've ever watched, I put it in my top 20 Star Trek episodes of all time easy, perhaps even top 10. Seems to me a lot of the low rated eps are more challenging to figure out and challenge assumptions (I've seen that these eps get more comments which make more factual errors regarding their narratives or questions which the narratives answer) more than the higher rated eps which tend to be a lot less challenging to figure out and those that people describe as truer to their nostalgic views of Star Trek ideals.
For Standard Deviation: the episode with the widest spread of opinions -- not including "The Vulcan Hello" -- was "Will You Take My Hand?" The episodes with the least spreads were "If Memory Serves" and "The Escape Artist". Cue the TOS theme... Normally the Median was in line with the Average, except in the cases of "Context Is for Kings" and "Point of Light", where it looks like more negative scores dragged down the overall average. People who didn't like the Klingons or Section 31 really didn't like the Klingons or Section 31. So they voted with 1s in fuller force when it came to "Point of Light". For "Context Is for Kings", I'm guessing Burnham hatred is what made people with negative opinions vote harsher while people who really liked the episode voted for it more highly because they got to see Burnham in action and this was our introduction to Lorca and Discovery.
As far as I'm concerned, the rating for "Battle at the Binary Stars" is the real rating for both episodes.
But that's not how statistics work at all! Not surprisingly the first 5 episodes were some of the most "controversial" (high deviation). I figure there were 3 layers of haters: the ones who saw only the first episode on TV (largest group), the ones with a 1-month trial of CBS AA who could have watched up until "Choose Your Pain", and the ones who are dedicated to watching the whole show (smallest group).
Very well done, and a great start for a thread! Thanks a lot! A few of my personal take-aways: 1. The episode's names really are a problem - I have a hard time matching the titles with the content, I had to look up quite a few of them, because they are so non-descript/unrelated to what actually happens in the episode. I think it would be interesting to sort this list in the order of airing as well - to see the swings over time. 2. The top of the list IMO makes a lot of sense: "If memory serves" was probably the best DIS-episode so far - not only because of it's ties to the original, but it also was one of the most out-there SF episodes, with strange aliens, telpathy, fake-wormholes, exotic planets, human drama, personal confrontation, ship-to-ship outwitting - it had everything. "Into the Forest I go", "Despite Yourself" and "The Wolf Inside" were the few episodes of season 1 were it actually felt the plot moved forward a lot. The first one also had a very nifty space battle, but unlike "Battle at the binary stars" this one felt like a conclusion instead of a set-up. Really, had the first season just ended there - I'd probably have it in much better memory. The MU arc actually started strong with "Despite Yourself" and "The Wolf inside" - two episodes were actually lot of plot progression happened as well. It was the conclusion to the MU arc (and the Klingon arc in the final episodes) that was so disappointing and soured the whole experience in retrospect. 3. Out of the top 5 episodes, there are 2 short Treks - "Escape Artist" and "Calypso" - both of which are only most tangentially related to the show overall. That is not a good sign. Incidentally - both are very close to "past" Star Trek in style - e.g. a weird one-off SF concept explored in a stand-alone adventure. 4. Neither Spock nor the red angel seem to be particular big draws for the show. They're all very much in the middle-of-the-road-stuff, which fits pretty much with my opinion on them. 5. "Lethe", "An Obol for Charon" and "Saints of Imperfection" are some of my favourite episodes of the show - they're the type of episodes I watch Star Trek for, with an interesting plot of the week, science adventures , an "original" premise (aka not dependant on references to previous Trek lore) and many, many deep and important character moments and developments. It's weird to see them so low on the list - but I guess none of them had any stand-out battle scenes or major twists for the main arc. So people probably just don't take them into account as much for the overall picture, even though the character work in those was vital for the show. 6. The one were I personally deviate the most from the list is "point of light". I really liked that one. But that was a weird fucking episode that mostly had nothing to do with the main characters, so I can see it being very down on the list. And "choose your pain". I really, really fucking hate that episode, for me it's the bottom of the barrel, not in the middle. I always thought "Magic to make the sanest man go mad" was overrated because it was praised so much in other threads - but it's position on this list meshes pretty well with my opinion of it. Apart from that, I'm for the most part either in general agreement with the list, or can understand the deviations (I prefer original content and character stuff - but that always gets burried under the "event" episodes in any "best-of" lists).
For me personally, my enjoyment of an episode has less to do with the subject matter, or even the plot, and more to do with how the episode was executed -- i.e., the pacing, dialogue, fun and/or interesting character moments, and overall packaging. The best and most imaginative plot could be poorly-slapped together in a way that looks and sounds like an on-screen mess -- and I would probably not enjoy that. Conversely, a simple plot might have good pacing, coherently laid out scene progression, clever dialogue, and memorable interaction between characters -- all of which might result in me really enjoying that simply-plotted episode. Probably because "traditional" means more deliberate pacing and less messy overall. As I mentioned above, I think people like a more coherently-constructed TV story that they can savor, instead of one that moves at break-neck speed without allowing the viewer time to thoughtfully consider each scene as they happen.
What I've found interesting is that as the season has gone on, the discussion threads have gotten shorter by the time I check in on Mondays. Not sure if that tracks with further discussions on each episode, of course.
Can you also include Season and Episode numbers? 1x03, S2E02, 1.09, something like that? I don't pretend to remember when each episode aired just by name of it alone.
Context Is For Kings is honestly the real season opener for Discovery season 1 and sets the pace and tone thereafter. I can understand Vulcan Hello and the 2nd part not being that popular. It kind of throws this unfamiliar world at you all at once, the only bright spot of which is the assurance that Michelle Yeoh is on board and oh. ..yeah she died. but I thought Context would be higher rated, honestly.