Ninja'd.
Nicholas Meyer Discusses Discovery
- Thread starter Armus
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The show is getting CBS the subscriptions it requires.
As long as that's true, it will continue.
By that measure it can't be called a failure, at all.
Most other criteria for success or failure are much more subjective. So it doesn't make much more sense to debate quality as a matter of "success" than simply to talk about whether the show is good or not. All subjective.
From the substantial sampling I did of the thing I consider it not at all good.
As long as that's true, it will continue.
By that measure it can't be called a failure, at all.
Most other criteria for success or failure are much more subjective. So it doesn't make much more sense to debate quality as a matter of "success" than simply to talk about whether the show is good or not. All subjective.
From the substantial sampling I did of the thing I consider it not at all good.
Welcome to the Internet.
The problem with such debates is we tend to use the same words--failure, turkey, bomb, disaster, etc--to describe both artistic and commercial disappointments, even though they're very different things that often have little do with each other, so that we end up talking past each other.
"That show was a total failure!"
"Huh? It got huge ratings?"
"That can't be right. It was terrible."
"But it wasn't a failure."
"Come again?"
Not just a STAR TREK thing. Just the other day I ran into somebody who was convinced that a recent movie had bombed at the box office, even though it had actually been one of the top-grossing movies of that year, simply because he thought it was a dumb idea for a movie.
"That show was a total failure!"
"Huh? It got huge ratings?"
"That can't be right. It was terrible."
"But it wasn't a failure."
"Come again?"
Not just a STAR TREK thing. Just the other day I ran into somebody who was convinced that a recent movie had bombed at the box office, even though it had actually been one of the top-grossing movies of that year, simply because he thought it was a dumb idea for a movie.
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Thing is: We are also in totally uncharted territory right now.
"Warner Bros." tries to implement their own streaming service entirely on "Titans" at the moment. CBS on "Star Trek". And everybody awaits anxiously for when Disney will arrive on the streaming market.
Right now NONE of these shows will falter, even if they were bombs by any means of the word: There is simply too much riding on them. These companies are willing to pay extra, just for the benefit of actually being in the streaming market at all.
In the long run, this could mean they keep shows alive that would never have been continued under any other circumstances, just to stay in the market. It means this market can completely collaps from one day to the other, and every single show being cancelled at the same time even if said shows were amazing and gangbuster successes by all measures.
Or, - my personal theory - the market wil consolidate around a few big players (Netflix, Disney are a given), and the rest (HBO after GoT, Amazon, CBS, WBs) are going to either unite or kick each other off the market (or a little bit of both) - and right now, each of these companies is shelling out money like gangbusters to have a small edge in the upcoming streaming war & negotiations.
It's amazing how many people find it completely incomprehensible that their own opinions and tastes on individual works of entertainment are not shared by the overwhelming majority.
To me, it's always come off as a massive insecurity. "I'm not comfortable debating from a minority position or even simply having a less-popular opinion, so I must convince myself and others that I am speaking with the authority of the majority." In fact, I think many rationalize and convince themselves of it. "Well, the two guys who sit in the cubicles next to me think it sucks too....so the majority of people think it sucks"
And there is critical and financial failure. Almost every critic and vlogger slammed Venom before it opened and were calling it a bomb........well even if people left the theater hating it, they went. $823 million on a $100 million budget. The best part is watching them try to walk back their early reviews.
When it comes to commercial success, perceptions can diverge widely from reality. And, yes, people can often rely too heavily on the judgments of their own personal peer groups. "But me and my immediate circle of friends, who, surprisingly, all have similar tastes and interests, hated that movie, so it must have been a flop, right?"
I even used to run into this at work sometimes:
"I think we should do SPACE VIXEN tie-ins."
"Seriously? Wasn't that a bomb?"
"It made a zillion dollars and the novelization from that other publisher went through nine printings."
"But everybody said it was dumb . . . ."
I even used to run into this at work sometimes:
"I think we should do SPACE VIXEN tie-ins."
"Seriously? Wasn't that a bomb?"
"It made a zillion dollars and the novelization from that other publisher went through nine printings."
"But everybody said it was dumb . . . ."
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Coming back to this, apparently there was an emergency meeting at CBS that day, but it had nothing to do with Discovery.
I wonder when this was first revealed... because I doubt Midnight's Edge really has a source inside the studio close to DSC. I think it's a case of "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy and they heard... "
1. Discovery hasn’t failed.
2. Since you admit you haven’t seen the show past episode 4, then you have no basis whatsoever to critique the show.
3. How do you know that “most fans have abandoned it?”
4. What’s it like living in fantasyland?
I saw half of them, including the finale. I have more than enough exposure to have an informed opinion of the show.
"You have to attend to every moment of the thing in order to judge it" is a dodge, not a respectable defense.
You saw 8 episodes out of 15. That’s a little better than 4.
Not really.
I read half of Terry Goodkind’s Sword Of Truth books, I both deserve a medal, and have no interest in the rest.
But all I can say of the entire series is ‘I didn’t like what I read.’ Cos for all I know, my issues have all been addressed as the books went on.
Edit: Just to confirm my point, I was so ignorant of later novels, that I didn’t even realise that I’d only read five out of seventeen books when I made my claim to ‘half.’ So no, really am in no position to even pretend to a truly informed opinion.
How can you judge something you haven’t watched?
Being repelled by what one has seen enough to drop a show is a valid criticism. Shedding viewers is one of the usual processes by which shows are canceled.
Yep.
Star Trek has a brand advantage in that people who love it will tolerate a lot of disappointment for months before giving up on it. Most new shows have to perform in the first month or networks will pull the trigger.*
If it had taken The Orville as many episodes to produce one that I liked as it took STD, I would not be watching it - MacFarlane got one shot. Nor would I be continuing to discuss that show even with respect to what I disliked about it - I'd simply have forgotten about it.
By the end of the Westworld pilot - which I'd expected nothing from - I was all in.
*Cable and streaming work somewhat differently. We know.
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I have way more respect for people who stop watching something they don't like than I do for people who keep watching, just so they have a knowledge base to argue/complain/cry from.
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