Well, I didn’t think it was any worse than the theatrical cut of Daredevil.
And Hollywood had no compunctions about greenlighting a sequel/spin-off to that.
Is Toxic "Star Wars" Fandom Imploding?
- Thread starter Locutus of Bored
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Well, I didn’t think it was any worse than the theatrical cut of Daredevil.
And Hollywood had no compunctions about greenlighting a sequel/spin-off to that.
Given that they’ve been making movies staring white men about white men since film was invented, I don’t think that’s a trend. It’s considered the default, the problem is that everyone else is a trend and one that can end due to a single movie failing. If Black Panther 2 bombs, there might not be a major black superhero movie made. If “Chris Pratt comedy to be named later” fails, he just gets another movie.
All of the SW movies since ROTS have been PG-13, so it wasn't just a one time thing with ROTS.
Both characters were created by men. The first two Tomb Raider reboot games were written by a woman, Rihanna Pratchett, ad the third is co-written by a man, Jason Dozois, and a woman, Jill Scott but most of the the main people involved were men.Catwoman was created by a man, and the majority of her comic appearances have been written by men.
Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn movie is Birds of Prey, not Gotham City Sirens.
Totally veering from the topic here... but I just recently watched the full three seasons of "The Fall". Stars Gillian Anderson. The writer is a male (Allan Cubitt also contributed to Prime Suspect II). What he wrote as and for Stella Gibson is pretty empowering stuff. Some of her in story comments and speeches are feminist and strong.
"Successful brand?" At the time the Catwoman film was released, Batman wasn't really an active film franchise. It was released some seven years after Batman and Robin, which arguably killed the film franchise. And it was a year or so before the release of Batman Begins, which is when Batman basically got its second life as a film franchise.
From what I remember she was that successfull that she was slapped on about four possible movies not counting Suicide squad two. One of those was Gotham city sirens with Catwoman and Ivy and the other was Birds of prey. I think she'd work better in Sirens but I know that birds of prey is actually in active development a.t.m.
But people still know Batman. It's still a popular superhero that your average joe recognises. Compare Batman and Robin to Green Lantern. Both bombed but one got another chance. Plus thanks to Returns people now know Catwoman too so she is starting her own path to becoming a successful brand.
As I said when Hollywood began, back in the mists of time, Hollywood was, I assume, genuinely racist and sexist but my argument is that while modern Hollywood is built upon these racist and sexist foundations it is now just an estate of greed and laziness. This may sound like I'm arguing semantics but to me if we take Hollywood as just sexist and racist then there is nothing we can do about that and we just have to wait until non racist and sexist people come into power in Hollywood. If we take my stance that they are overwhelmingly lazy and greedy instead then there is something we can do about it. Because that can be manipulated and used to our benefit.
Yes it might take time and effort but all it means is that if you want more female leads all you need to do is support the ones they are currently giving us even if you aren't really interested in the plot/ actress/ studio/ etc.
To use an example from a different thread; when Batwoman launches and you want more female leads in superheroes then you need to watch it even if you aren't a fan of Batwoman. Now because one swallow does not make a summer they won't see that as a trend for female superheroes and will assume it is because she is linked to Batman so they will possibly follow up with Red Hood or something but if you avoid that (because it will probably be terrible) they will try to figure out this trend puzzle we have given them and maybe give us Batgirl/ Oracle/ Spoiler. Then they might figure out that people are after female lead superheroes and maybe introduce Bumblebee to Titans which as someone who wants more female led superheroes and people of colour people will thus tune in and support the new trend.
Likewise if you want to see less white, male, leads then don't support them so don't go see Meg this summer even if you are a particular fan of Jason Statham or Sharks, don't go see Meg
As far as Black Panther killing off black superhero movies if the next one lands poorly, I doubt it, same goes for this apparant rumour that they are looking to change lead for the sequel. The amount of money that thing made I would be amazed if people aren't rushing to get another black lead superhero to the screen. This would be a solid swing for getting John Stewart for the next GL movie if he wasn't already. This could be the push Marvel needs to push along that dawdling Blade sequel/ reboot thing they've been talking about. The thing is, a I said, the executives don't watch most of these movies so they are going on guess work. Did Black Panther do well because audiences are hungry for a black lead or was it something else. So to maximise profits they will look at what worked in the past and then pick three or four possible things from it and try them to double check before they chuck a big pile of cash on the next one. You've got to treat them like you're training a puppy. You smack its nose with a rolled up newspaper because it pee'd on the carpet but once won't cut it. You have to reinforce that and keep it up. This is doubly true for movies when they cost so much and are expected to make so much these days.
But, getting back to the original point, I guess that's the difference between you and me. At heart, deep down, I'm an optimist.
Well, I obviously don't know about the intentions of the people in Hollywood, but the way I see it even if they're "just" lazy and greedy it is still sexist and racist if the things they do result in sexist and racist decisions. So, if we had a lot of male led super hero movies and the first female led one fails and Hollywood doesn't produce another female led superhero movie for another decade because they think they don't make money their motive is greed* but their action is sexist.
*I'd argue the motive is also sexism because they either think that the lead's gender was the reason for the movie bombing or they think that the audience won't like female superheroes which just means that the audience is sexist and they act on that sexism.
*I'd argue the motive is also sexism because they either think that the lead's gender was the reason for the movie bombing or they think that the audience won't like female superheroes which just means that the audience is sexist and they act on that sexism.
It's less optimism and more sticking your fingers in your ears and humming, hoping the issue goes away.
I would argue that my post stated how we can use my opinion to do something about it while you are sticking your fingers in your ears and just complaining about it.
While that's a good point maybe you could flesh out your counter argument on how supporting any and all female lead movies despite subject, tone or plot; to encourage Hollywood to get the message and make that the default norm is just sticking my fingers in my ears and ignoring it?
Well, the thing is that while watching movies with female leads helps more being produced, it doesn't change fundamental attitudes that makes something like that possible in the first place. It's like fighting the symptoms, a good thing to do but you should really also consider the larger problem at hand. It's really not impossible to do both.
I believe most of the disappointment, criticism, even anger against the sequels was not from that there were too many or too idealized female characters but from that Luke was portrayed as being a big failure who gave up and more generally that Luke, Han and Leia were all portrayed as having failed.
Actually I'm dismissing your naive and blissfully ignorant position. Hollywood does not want to take chances because they spend so much money on films now. So if a single movie about a minority character bombs, they get scared and want to play it safe because Hollywood and society in general is sexist and racist. Going to see more movies will not stop that because it is a problem with all of us. We're born into it, grow up with it and eventually either continue to contribute to it or reject it. Those who do reject it are commonly dismissed by others, like you're doing here. You're saying that me pointing out a problem is the problem and I should just go see more movies. I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to reply to you at this point.
It's valuable commentary on society, the Baby Boomer generation failed in its high minded ideas of peace and love, actually making the world a worse place to live. Greed and corruption is basically running everything, the very forces their parents fought in WWII is coming back into power and influence with a lot of support from them. Movies reflect our society and Star Wars is no different. The people we expected to save us have failed and it's time to move past that and do what they couldn't.
And, yet, even Hamil acknowledge that it was an appropriate theme for the current day and age. Speculative Fiction is a unique vehicle to convey that, and the fact that people have such and emotional reaction does not mitigate that message.
A movie where the heroes lead happy lives with no conflict or change is going to be pretty boring. I really don’t know what the people who complain about this even want out of a movie.
I'm not positive, but I think the most recent stories going around about the new GL movie were that it is going to be a buddy space cop movie focused on Hal Jordon and John Stewart.
Can we at least have that movie so that we know what it should be?
I agree with this. At least it represents my reaction. Not anger though, but a sense that the 'good guys' were not worthy. Luke especially. I watched and enjoyed TFA but the highlight and buildup (for me) was the Luke reveal at the end. Then the anticipation of Last Jedi... and then....
