HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

[Owain Taggart]

I'm actually kind of disappointed with how Maeve's character arc closed out. She did reunite with her daughter, but it was only briefly before she sent her away to safety in the "New World" and she tried to be the savior for the Hosts, but of course that didn't work it. In the end, I'm not sure what exactly Maeve accomplished. I did like how Lee sacrificed himself for Maeve, showing how he went from a selfish fuck to a somewhat decent selfless guy.

Well, I see that she sacrificed herself in order to help her daughter and the other mother cross over into the other world. But we pretty much know she's going to be revived.

On the whole though, the more I think about the whole show's setup, the less interesting it becomes. If any host can be easily reset, the less stakes the show has in general, and it becomes more like a giant reset button. The show has many twist and turns, but it can quickly become irrelevant if we know that everything can safely be reset. That concerns me on the length of series. Just how long can they keep going like this before people tire of it? Everyone has their favourite characters, but it quickly becomes less interesting once you know there's a copy waiting somewhere to take their place.

 

[Aragorn]

I think one of the biggest problems this show has is lack of character motivation, like in season 1 how Felix and Sylvester were so willing to go along with boosting Maeve, or in season 2 you had the security team guy going around killing hosts but stopped long enough to get blown up by one because he was horny.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I think one of the biggest problems this show has is lack of character motivation, like in season 1 how Felix and Sylvester were so willing to go along with boosting Maeve, or in season 2 you had the security team guy going around killing hosts but stopped long enough to get blown up by one because he was horny.

I don't think those examples were too out of character.

Felix was shown to be empathetic towards the hosts and had experimented on his own robot bird before he fell in with Maeve, so it doesn't seem out of the realm for him to be a willing participant in helping her.

Sylvester on the other hand was just an easily manipulated coward with few morals who would do whatever it takes to survive.

And the security team guy who got blown up stood out in an army of Keystone Marcs who couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if they were standing inside it as being stupider than most. He was running around shouting and cheering during the firefight like an idiot. I have no doubt whatsoever that he spent his employee discount in the park raping and killing up a storm, and so he thought since she was just standing there passively he could take advantage.

 

[Mudd]

It's passingly interesting that the lower down the "food chain" a Delos park employee is, the more likely they are to sympathize with and even throw in with the Hosts.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

It's the same at Disneyland. The churro guy will cut you if you mess with one of the costumed characters.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I think one of the biggest problems this show has is lack of character motivation, like in season 1 how Felix and Sylvester were so willing to go along with boosting Maeve, or in season 2 you had the security team guy going around killing hosts but stopped long enough to get blown up by one because he was horny.

I'd agree with that. Season two was largely a reason for some shootouts to happen. Lots of aggressors out there looking for vengeance. Had to laugh a little at Dolores and William meeting up again because on the surface they really are no different this season.

 

[Mudd]

I dunno, everyone's motivations seem clear and plausible enough to me.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think that large parts of season 2 were hard to follow and incomprehensible, but the finale was the exact opposite, and made everything make sense.

Will be interesting to see Dolores' tactics next season. It seemed like she made a copy of herself, as now there is a Dolores in her original body and one in the other body. What else will she copy herself into? Giant animals?

William was pretty much proven not a host. He found no wires in his arm and then his hand was blown open to the bone.

I agree there were a handful of cliche plot points like that guy who got seduced and blown up, and the body count may have been a slight bit excessive at some points, but they were the minority and don't ruin all the cool things about the season.

I loved that The Door turned out to basically be San Junipero.

 

[Mudd]

Final for the year, probably...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I didn't even know there was a post-credits sequence until I read this thread. Do the writers assume that all viewers watch to the very end of the credits every episode?

 

[Mudd]

Someone elsewhere pointed out that the post-credits scene reveals the ultimate success of the Delos Project, and it's a study in macabre humor:

1. An avatar of WIlliam has been created, finally, that does not appear to break down and degrade, and that identically reproduces his behavior when presented with identical stimuli - over and over, every time; and
   
2. It's William's personal Hell.

It's also interesting that the dialogue between MiBot and Emily Avatar suggests that they've flipped the script on the testing: what William Somewhere Else seeks now is the creation of an Avatar that breaks out of its human loop instead of repeating it perfectly.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I didn't even know there was a post-credits sequence until I read this thread. Do the writers assume that all viewers watch to the very end of the credits every episode?

I always do to watch the teaser for the next episode, and I did this time because they also had a post-credits scene (though not as consequential) after the S1 finale, which revealed that Armistice was still alive, though she had to cut and tear off her arm.

 

[Mudd]

 

[DigificWriter]

In the hours since the finale aired last night, I've seen explanations and such about what happened, particularly in the post-credits scene, and, although I'm still not completely over my disappointment and feelings that the series has become way too incomprehensible and messy for no real narrative reason, I'm backing off my initial "jump the shark" criticism and my hard-line stance that I'm done with the series as a whole.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I just saw the extra scene.

Are we totally sure, this is a repeated simulation? Before the end, we see William going down into the Forge, at the same time Bernard was about to exit into the elevator, then he opens the elevator and William is not there. Then, we see him back outside as Hale is leaving.

Earlier, Ford said "This game is for you, William, but you have to play it alone."

The obvious far future idea is a possible one, that somehow William was kept in simulation after simulation and did the same thing every time. It's also possible, the simulations happened in the past, and the iteration we saw is the most recent one, the first one that took place in reality. Remember, we saw William in Logan's tour of Delos, maybe that's where the first several simulation happened, that proved to Ford that he would do exactly what he wanted him to and help Dolores reach the Forge in the real world.

 

[DigificWriter]

The "far, far future" setting for the post-credits scene isn't just an 'idea'; it's been officially confirmed by both Jonah and Lisa (Lisa more directly and definitively than Jonah, which is actually par for the course).

Speaking of Lisa, her Hollywood Reporter interview has actually gone a long way towards softening my harsh initial reaction to last night's finale and my own personal future with the series.

 

[Owain Taggart]

the series has become way too incomprehensible and messy for no real narrative reason

Well, that much is true. Overall, if anything I felt season 2 overall was much messier than season 1 with no other purpose other than to confuse. It's always felt like two steps forward one step back in terms of narrative with no real payoff. I felt the more straightforward episodes were better.

 

[Mudd]

Yeah, we're sure it's the far future and that William was human. Aside from the fact that this is the entire point of him being in the show, the people who make it have said so.

 

[Mudd]

‘Cause in reality, a man got his arm shot off. He’s just lying on the ground somewhere. And later on, when Hale, or Halores is leaving the park, you see him on a cot. He’s injured, but he’s alive, and he’s real, and he’s going out into the real world — along with a handbag of pearls and Halores.

Lisa Joy explains every single fucking thing about the finale.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I always do to watch the teaser for the next episode, and I did this time because they also had a post-credits scene (though not as consequential) after the S1 finale, which revealed that Armistice was still alive, though she had to cut and tear off her arm.

Oh, damn, I had no idea that finale also had a post-credits scene. I guess I need to pull up that episode and watch it again.