HBO's "Westworld", starring Anthony Hopkins/produced by J.J. Abrams

[Owain Taggart]

They're definitely setting her up for disappointment there, but I'm not sure what to make of her obsession in the context of self-awareness and free will. Of course, many humans make the error of obsessing over an imaginary relationship.

Spoiler

I'm actually surprised that they ended up getting to that as quickly as they did. There definitely was disappointment as it dawned on her that things were not as she remembered them. That host playing the mother for instance, likely a new host replacing the role she once had? Interesting how far out of the way that location was. Initially, when we got our first glance of the property, I thought it looked like it could have been an abandoned part of the park as there wasn't much of anything surrounding it.

The deeper we get into the season, the more exasperated I become in regards to people's insistence that the show is becoming more complicated, and the reason I get more and more exasperated is that there really isn't all that much for people to be confused by.

It's a matter of perspective though. Maybe you have an easy time to follow it, but you really can't fault people for having trouble following a show that has at least 5 different timelines.

 

[DigificWriter]

WestWorld, structurally, follows the same type of "fragmented narrative" storytelling formula as Game of Thrones, and yet I've never seen that series twist so many people into knots.

WestWorld's non-linear narrative does have a certain degree of complexity to it, but it's not so complex that it's impossible to know with 100% certainty what is happening at any given moment and how various different plot threads are synced up.

 

[Mudd]

And yet, barely a year ago you had no idea whatever that the story was taking place in three different time periods. You were pretty sure that was untrue.

So, it was "complex" enough.

 

[DigificWriter]

And yet, barely a year ago you had no idea whatever that the story was taking place in three different time periods. You were pretty sure that was untrue.

So, it was "complex" enough.

I wasn't confused; I was ignoring evidence out of stubborn pride.

The way the first season of the series was structured has, sadly, conditioned people to overanalyze everything even though, as with Season 1, everything one needs to be able to understand what's going on has been and is being laid out in the open.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'm sure I'm not the only person who predicted Robert was inside the "Cradle" but it's good to know I was right. I look forward to the conversation he and Bernard have next episode, but I still worry that he's directly responsible for the Hosts gaining sentience or worse, programmed sentience.

I'm sorry we've already left Shōgunworld (not that I expected to remain there for too long), but I'm thrilled Tao Okamoto's Hanaryo will be sticking around for the time being (but sadly no more of Hiroyuki Sanada's Musashi). Hopefully with the remaining episodes of the season, we'll see more exploration of her character not just the Shōgunworld version of Armistice.

I have to say I'm a little disappointed in Maeve. For all of her keen and sly intellect, I don't know why she was so surprised to find her daughter with another mother. She didn't honestly think her daughter was just hanging out on the prairie on her own this whole time, right? And why didn't she take Hector, et al. when she knew there was a real possibility of Ghost Nation showing up? That whole bit seemed a bit contrive, just so Maeve could be thrown off by Akecheta, the Ghost Nation leader, and his claim that they searching for the same path.

Fun conversation between Emily and William, but I wasn't at all surprised he took off the next morning without her. Hopefully they aren't separated for too long.

Looks like the two timelines are close to lining up. I wonder if we will get any episodes this season after everything is caught up or if they'll stretch it out for another three or four episodes.

 

[Mudd]

A number of moments that the producers may have intended as minor surprises were telegraphed this week.

 

[Cyrus]

WestWorld, structurally, follows the same type of "fragmented narrative" storytelling formula as Game of Thrones, and yet I've never seen that series twist so many people into knots.

GoT doesn't show the same characters in multiple timeframes, and events in the past are clearly shown as flashbacks (e.g. Bran's visions) so they avoid unnecessary confusion.

I love westword but GoT's storytelling is superior.

 

[Mudd]

Okay, now this is kind of fun.

I'm not offering any of this as a prediction, or even a disciplined guess. At least I know that I'm no good at that shit.

But here's some stuff.

Early in the season opener "Journey Into Night," some interesting things are established. Sizemore tells Maeve, I believe:

Whatever it is, y-you're not gonna find it with that map.
It's outdated.
Ford's been terraforming the park.
Reshaping it.

Yeah, we saw in Season One that Ford was tearing up the ground, digging a real big hole.

Well, at the end of "Journey Into Night," the Delos extraction team finds a sea. Some sea:

MALING: What the fuck? This isn't on the survey. It shouldn't be here.
STUBBS: That's a fucking sea. There's no way Ford made this without anyone knowing.
So where the hell did it come from? Huh?.

Of course, floating in that Sea That Someone Built For Some Reason are a lot of dead Hosts.

There's something special about these Hosts:

MALING: We're pulling what we can off the recovered host control units.
But what's really unsettling is what's in about a third of them...
...Nothing...
...like they're virgin.
Like they never held data to begin with. No user prints or anything. And that's not the worst of it. Have a look. We've put the fires out, but there's nothing we can recover from the Cradle. The hosts' backups have all been destroyed.

Wanna bet Dead Teddy is one of the drowned Hosts with a "virgin control unit?"

About that Cradle...

The Season One credits closed with the Vitruvian Host submerging into a white fluid:



This is, of course, a visual reference to the creation or "birth" of Hosts, a process that we see going on in the background of several Westworld episodes.

Season Two's credits close with a variation of the image - the Host submerging into darkly transparent, or unlit clear, fluid of another kind:



Okay, what does that symbolize?

What is the visual image used to represent Bernard's being placed into the Cradle by Elsie?

 

[Mudd]

GoT doesn't show the same characters in multiple timeframes, and events in the past are clearly shown as flashbacks (e.g. Bran's visions) so they avoid unnecessary confusion.

I love westword but GoT's storytelling is superior.

I love GoT but the writing is not nearly as thoughtful or as intelligent as Westworld; it's not in the same league. Honestly, I've never seen any kind of sf/fantasy on television that really quite approaches what they're doing here.

 

[Cyrus]

I don't disagree. But I wasn't referring to intelligence or thoughtfulness, just pure storytelling. How easy it is to follow complex storylines and how badly the audience wants to see what happens next. The continuous growth of the audience for GoT is a testament for that.

 

[Mudd]

Well, I think GoT is a kind of narrative that has an intrinsically broader appeal than Westworld no matter how the scripts are structured. It's about people caught in a great deal of intrigue surrounding issues of betrayal, craving for power, lust and warfare. Family strife, all that stuff. And fire-breathing dragons. Westworld is a pretty peculiar show in its focus, although it's certainly become a good deal more conventional in the second year.

 

[Owain Taggart]

WestWorld, structurally, follows the same type of "fragmented narrative" storytelling formula as Game of Thrones, and yet I've never seen that series twist so many people into knots.

That's because they're not even in the same ballpark. In GoT, we follow multiple characters in a story with linear progression, which is pretty much par for the course in TV shows these days. In WestWorld, we're following multiple characters and multiple versions of some characters through multiple timelines, some of which are not all they seem to be. It's a story that's difficult to piece together because of how much there is going on. Takes awhile to absorb everything.

I have to say I'm a little disappointed in Maeve. For all of her keen and sly intellect, I don't know why she was so surprised to find her daughter with another mother. She didn't honestly think her daughter was just hanging out on the prairie on her own this whole time, right?

Yeah, I have to admit, I was a little disappointed and surprised as well. It's why I still feel that there's not complete awareness going on. They may think they do, but I'm not sure there's anything beyond their programming. We'll have to see what happens next with her of course.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I'm disappointed with Maeve for a couple of reasons. She should be the most sympathetic character, because part of her story was the quest to be reunited with her daughter, but her denial that she has no real daughter makes her more pitiable. Also, her wholesale slaughter of people, now that she's gained control over the programming of her fellow hosts, makes her as bad as Dolores-- she could have just as easily knocked them out or switched their loyalty, or any number of other things. I wonder if she will ultimately reprogram the kid bot to be her daughter again. I wonder if she will let it have sentience.

On the other hand, Dolores seems to be having regrets that she reprogrammed her botfriend.

Do we have any evidence that William's daughter is not a robot?

 

[BillJ]

...had no idea whatever that the story was taking place in three different time periods.

It was pretty late into the first season before I figured out it was taking place in multiple timeframes.

 

[Mudd]

It has been pointed out that Delores' interview with BernArnold at the top of "Phase Space" is shot in the same aspect ratio as events portrayed taking place in the Cradle simulation, different from the rest of the show.

It was pretty late into the first season before I figured out it was taking place in multiple timeframes.

My first watch-through of the show was on transatlantic flights last Spring, so I was not really thinking about or analyzing the series much between episodes, and didn't discuss them with anyone IRL or on the Internet. So just about every big surprise caught me off guard.

I knew that events weren't lining up chronologically and so forth, of course, but I just kept watching and waiting for the various pieces to fall together rather than chasing it. I was mostly intrigued by the argument the producers and writers were making about human experience.

 

[BillJ]

So just about every big surprise caught me off guard.

Spoiler: Westworld

William being the Man in Black really blew my mind. I never saw it coming.

 

[Mudd]

Yeah, at least part of that was adroit casting I think. They resisted whatever tendency there might have been to match up the two actors in any respects that jumped out at you, and yet the two of them aren't a real mismatch either. Pretty fine line.

 

[Mudd]

Not sure this is accurate in all details.







What's the chance that Maeve is about to run into the MiB?

 

[Owain Taggart]

I'm disappointed with Maeve for a couple of reasons. She should be the most sympathetic character, because part of her story was the quest to be reunited with her daughter, but her denial that she has no real daughter makes her more pitiable.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Overall, I don't find the writing to be as good as it was in the first season. There are only a handful of episodes this season that I'd consider great so far, and given how they've written some of the characters like Maeve, I'm unsure how long they could stretch this series out for.

Not sure this is accurate in all details.

This is straightforward? I think my brain hurts just looking at it.

 

[Mudd]

Well, that's a complete misreading of Maeve's arc so far, but other than that...meh.