Spoilers Star Wars: Solo - Grading and Discussion Thread
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Great movie. Loved Chewie in this. He really got some good “lines” and development. I think we know now that just about everything he says is “i have a bad feeling about this!!”
Really, just a good stand alone movie. It really serves no purpose in the overall narrative, unlike Rogue One, but so what. It was fun and set up a Lando movie featuring Han.
Really, just a good stand alone movie. It really serves no purpose in the overall narrative, unlike Rogue One, but so what. It was fun and set up a Lando movie featuring Han.
You're right. The film needs fixing in order to rank higher.Revenge of the Sith is far too low on these lists. It needs to be fixed.
Revenge of the Sith is far too low on these lists. It needs to be fixed.
Revenge of the Sith is overrated. It's the "best" of the Prequels but only by the slimmest of margins, but -for me- it cannot be better than any of the other movies because doing so gives the Prequels far too much "credit."
On its own ROTS is "good." The problem is that it is not on its own and is weighed down by the botched story telling in the entire prequel trilogy. The movie cannot work when you factor in all of those movies. We're supposed to be shocked, surprised, or upset when Anakin goes to the Dark Side, even though we know it's going to happen, it's supposed to be an opposition to his entire character and a big deal. The problem is, it isn't. And not because we already know he does it, but because he's been a little bitch for the entire trilogy of movies. It should be shocking that he killed the kids in the training room, but he's been a punk this whole time and he's already, fairly proudly, killed an entire tribe of Sand People. (And most ridiculously, Padme doesn't believe it when she's told that Anakin did this. Bitch, the guy told you when he killed the Sand People including the women and children and you were largely okay with it!)
The prequels should have started with an older Anakin, already in Jedi training and being assigned to his Padwan for the biggest, and last, phase of his mentoring. He should have been Jesus, utterly incorruptible and the very epitome of The Light Side, and no matter how much "The Emperor" or anyone tried they couldn't get him to even consider any aspect of The Dark Side, we should have seen him with the kids in the training room and being just like the perfect Big Brother to them. And then, The Emperor or someone else in the Dark Side infects Padme or makes her critical and the corrupts/pulls Anakin over saying it's the only way to save her, the deeper in the Dark Side he goes the better his chances. He fails, but continues his descent into the Dark Side, presumably trying to find some way to revive her.
But, nope, let's start him off as an annoying kid who vaudevillian stumbles his way through saving the day, and then make him a whiny, creeper, punk the other two movies.
.... Sorry, tangent.
This is half of the one-two punch that most damns the prequel trilogy for me. Discounting TPM, Anakin rarely comes across as sympathetic or even likeable, so it's no big surprise or tragedy when he turns from whiney Jedi to whiney Sith. And the kicker is that his "turn" is depicted so badly that it basically comes across as, "Tell me how to stop my wife from dying and I'll help you murder the galaxy." That's not a warping of who Anakin is, it's just kind of the way he seems to be normally.
When I think of Anakin in a good light, it's almost exclusively the Clone Wars version of him.
On the other hand, they were Sand People.
Dear. God. :facepalm:
That isn't even consistent with the OT, the Old Testament of Star Wars! TESB said he was a dude with anger issues!
At least it's not full of Rankors………..
And just FYI the book cited was pre-Disney and even has a disclaimer now:
While information from this reference is treated as canon for Holocron purposes,[6] the book also contains the following disclaimer in the back:
In 2014 Lucasfilm reclassified what is considered canon in the Star Wars universe. Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know draws mostly upon information from the Expanded Universe that Lucasfilm now considers to be "Legends"–that is, stories beyond the original six films and the TV shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels.
Though I seem to like the prequels (with the exception of TPM) better than some, I too had problems with Anakin's fall. It just wasn't handled well.
I did like the idea of the Jedi Council sending Anakin to spy on Palpatine, creating this schism between him and the Council and making him feel guilty about doing something underhanded to his friend Palpatine. From what I recall of the novelization, Anakin was so pissy about being denied a Master's rank not because of his ego, but because Jedi Masters had special access to information in the Jedi Archives and he wanted entry so he could look for a way to prevent Padme from dying. But for some reason, Lucas didn't add that part in the film and it made Anakin look even more petulant.
But overall, Lucas didn't do a good job of having Anakin go from loyal Jedi to accepting Palpatine's view that the Jedi would murder the whole Senate or that the Jedi were evil. There just wasn't enough there to make those assertions plausible. I try to chalk it up as Anakin being highly distressed and very emotionally vulnerable after consigning Mace Windu to death and casting his lot with Palpatine, and perhaps Palpatine was just providing Anakin with a justification, a kind of mental/emotional life raft to hold on to, and Anakin convinced himself that Palpatine was telling the truth because he just didn't want to face the real truth that he had helped murder Windu. But still, it doesn't quite work for me.
I can sort of accept Padme not believing, or saying she didn't believe Anakin murdered the younglings, because she just didn't want to believe it. She accepted Anakin's 'reasons' for his massacre of the Sandpeople, and she could fall back on he was grieving over his mother, but even then, in Attack of the Clones, that scene (while well acted by Hayden Christensen, his anger in his eyes was boiling), it didn't make much sense. You don't get close to a guy who just told you he killed a whole village of people, including the women and children. You don't paper over that by saying to be angry is to be human. He just didn't get angry, he committed mass murder. And then to marry this guy and have his kids? I think it would've worked better if Anakin had not told her all the details of what he did and that his guilt and shame would wear on him, eating him alive. So that when Obi-Wan told Padme about the younglings she would legitimately be more surprised and more logically (IMO) determined to find Anakin and get to the bottom of it.
I can get why Lucas rested Anakin's turn on Padme's future/death, because it might be more easier to grasp his motivations, but I wish his issue with the Jedi had been more ideological than based on saving Padme's life.
Further, the idea that Padme, a woman who went back to Naboo with little help to liberate her planet, who stood against assassins in support of the Military Creation Act, who wasn't afraid to press Palpatine to end the war and relinquish his powers or step down, and then who went to Mustafar to confront Anakin would die of a 'broken heart'. Not after giving birth. She would fight like hell to protect them against Anakin and the Emperor.
Despite my misgivings, I still enjoyed ROTS a lot and I rank it #3 for Star Wars films.
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Attack of the Clones
5. A New Hope
6. Rogue One
7. Solo* (I haven't seen Solo, but I am confident that it's better than the other films below it)
8. The Last Jedi
9. The Force Awakens
10. The Phantom Menace
I did like the idea of the Jedi Council sending Anakin to spy on Palpatine, creating this schism between him and the Council and making him feel guilty about doing something underhanded to his friend Palpatine. From what I recall of the novelization, Anakin was so pissy about being denied a Master's rank not because of his ego, but because Jedi Masters had special access to information in the Jedi Archives and he wanted entry so he could look for a way to prevent Padme from dying. But for some reason, Lucas didn't add that part in the film and it made Anakin look even more petulant.
But overall, Lucas didn't do a good job of having Anakin go from loyal Jedi to accepting Palpatine's view that the Jedi would murder the whole Senate or that the Jedi were evil. There just wasn't enough there to make those assertions plausible. I try to chalk it up as Anakin being highly distressed and very emotionally vulnerable after consigning Mace Windu to death and casting his lot with Palpatine, and perhaps Palpatine was just providing Anakin with a justification, a kind of mental/emotional life raft to hold on to, and Anakin convinced himself that Palpatine was telling the truth because he just didn't want to face the real truth that he had helped murder Windu. But still, it doesn't quite work for me.
I can sort of accept Padme not believing, or saying she didn't believe Anakin murdered the younglings, because she just didn't want to believe it. She accepted Anakin's 'reasons' for his massacre of the Sandpeople, and she could fall back on he was grieving over his mother, but even then, in Attack of the Clones, that scene (while well acted by Hayden Christensen, his anger in his eyes was boiling), it didn't make much sense. You don't get close to a guy who just told you he killed a whole village of people, including the women and children. You don't paper over that by saying to be angry is to be human. He just didn't get angry, he committed mass murder. And then to marry this guy and have his kids? I think it would've worked better if Anakin had not told her all the details of what he did and that his guilt and shame would wear on him, eating him alive. So that when Obi-Wan told Padme about the younglings she would legitimately be more surprised and more logically (IMO) determined to find Anakin and get to the bottom of it.
I can get why Lucas rested Anakin's turn on Padme's future/death, because it might be more easier to grasp his motivations, but I wish his issue with the Jedi had been more ideological than based on saving Padme's life.
Further, the idea that Padme, a woman who went back to Naboo with little help to liberate her planet, who stood against assassins in support of the Military Creation Act, who wasn't afraid to press Palpatine to end the war and relinquish his powers or step down, and then who went to Mustafar to confront Anakin would die of a 'broken heart'. Not after giving birth. She would fight like hell to protect them against Anakin and the Emperor.
Despite my misgivings, I still enjoyed ROTS a lot and I rank it #3 for Star Wars films.
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Attack of the Clones
5. A New Hope
6. Rogue One
7. Solo* (I haven't seen Solo, but I am confident that it's better than the other films below it)
8. The Last Jedi
9. The Force Awakens
10. The Phantom Menace
The clone wars TV series really helps with some of the story issues ROTS has in regards with Anakin.
Helps flesh out his issues and fall
I don't rank the side films with the Skywalker films. I rank them with novels and comics, as they are very much doing similar stories that they do.
My ranking of the SW films:
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Solo
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
The Last Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Solo
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace
The Last Jedi
But...but...we're suppose to live in harmony and everyone should have the same opinion!The one thing I can tell from all of these rankings. Tastes vary widely on the Star Wars front. And that's wonderful! We can debate these movies until the end of time. (Assuming we can actually be civil to one another doing it.)
*suddenly remembers where he is*
To be blunt with you, I think this is why people have so much problem with the prequel trilogy. Don't get me wrong, the movies have flaws (ATOC especially) and are not nearly as good as the OT, but the movies did not tell the story that many fans expected. That did not prevent them from being record breaking movies. I think TPM and ROTS are fine and are just not as outstanding as the OT. AOTC should have spent more time on the Anakin/Obi-wan friendship and less bickering. It brings down the whole PT by failing to convince us that Anakin was a good friend. We get that in ROTS, but by that film is all about his fall. Lucas really botched the PT in so many ways, but even so, they are good movies. When I compare them to the Star Trek franchise, they are like the TNG movies - good but not quite that good. Enjoyable to watch, but missing something. They are not bad movies, which is where I put the Abrams films. I am not an Abrams fan. I think he excels at creating characters and back stories, and can create some damned fine scenes and get stories off to an outstanding start, but he had issues in the editing room and is miserable at crafting endings. I think TFA has the worst ending of any Star Wars film.
I can't wait to see Solo. I know they have thrown out the old books, but I also know they love to pull from them to add things back. Like Lando having a droid copilot.
