Turnabout Intruder

[Phaser Two]

Agreed. Probably the most annoying for me is in "Arena," as we know Scotty is available.

Yup, even though I like Sulu a lot that irritates me too and is just about the only blemish on a terrific episode. I believe Arena was right before the producers realized they had someone special in Jimmy and wanted to include him more. In production order I believe Scotty's first command showing is in Return of the Archons, followed by his fantastic turn in TOA. After that he was pretty much a lock.

 

[Phaser Two]

But on real ships, the Chief Engineer is busy doing his actual job, which is a pretty big one that needs attention, and the ship is steered by bridge officers. So maybe Arena got it right.

Enh, but Starfleet ships aren't quite the same as modern naval vessels; for example, the crews are far smaller, possibly due to automation, and steering isn't quite the same concept. I do think they were going for a "Scotty isn't a line officer" approach as late as Arena, but for Scotty fans like me, thank goodness they thought better of it.

 

[J.T.B.]

This gets to the reason that I think the chief engineer of a real capital ship would probably never, or almost never, take the bridge: because the captain and his second-in-command wouldn't both be boating ashore ("beaming down") together while the ship was under way and thus had to be commanded (steered) instead of just guarded by sentries at the dock.

Star Trek's frequent Kirk-Spock landing parties create a whole area of discussion for how realistic that would be. But they're the stars and they have to go where the action is.

Sure, but I'm not sure how that fits with saying "Arena" got it right, as the captain and F/O are both off the ship in that episode, too.

I would say that the ship in orbit is more comparable to being at anchor than underway. But certainly the captain and second-in-command both regularly going on landing parties is a fair point of criticism and was considered when TNG was being put together.

Yup, even though I like Sulu a lot that irritates me too and is just about the only blemish on a terrific episode. I believe Arena was right before the producers realized they had someone special in Jimmy and wanted to include him more. In production order I believe Scotty's first command showing is in Return of the Archons, followed by his fantastic turn in TOA. After that he was pretty much a lock.
[...]
I do think they were going for a "Scotty isn't a line officer" approach as late as Arena, but for Scotty fans like me, thank goodness they thought better of it.

It's a good point, "Arena" was probably a little too early to expect all that to be nailed down.

I am also a big fan of Scotty in command. Perhaps from his wartime experience, Doohan brought a kind of low-key, "been there, done that" ease of authority to it. As a kid I was always impressed by him as a leader (and similarly William Boyett on Adam-12 and Mike Norrell on Emergency!). Scotty's one-dimensional characterization in the movies always bugged me.

 

[trynda1701]

Yes, Scotty in command in "Fridays Child" is a good example. No nonsense, yet allowing Uhura, Sulu and Chekov to input opinions into the discussion. Even allows Chekov pull off a Russian joke! Loved those scenes.

 

[Phaser Two]

Sure, but I'm not sure how that fits with saying "Arena" got it right, as the captain and F/O are both off the ship in that episode, too.

I would say that the ship in orbit is more comparable to being at anchor than underway. But certainly the captain and second-in-command both regularly going on landing parties is a fair point of criticism and was considered when TNG was being put together.



It's a good point, "Arena" was probably a little too early to expect all that to be nailed down.

I am also a big fan of Scotty in command. Perhaps from his wartime experience, Doohan brought a kind of low-key, "been there, done that" ease of authority to it. As a kid I was always impressed by him as a leader (and similarly William Boyett on Adam-12 and Mike Norrell on Emergency!). Scotty's one-dimensional characterization in the movies always bugged me.

Great post. He did have a great, easy way of projecting authority. I like how calm he is while sitting in the chair during Savage Curtain. The part while he leaves Kirk on hold to get a report from Engineering as Uhura yells at him, because he knows they can't beam them up and he needs to hear what's up with the power drain/overload, is outstanding.

Yes, it always bugged me that he never got a single command scene in any of the movies. Good call. They continued that in Relics when LaForge offered him command of the shuttle, but it was cute there. In the movies it vexed.

Yes, Scotty is command in "Fridays Child" is a good example. No nonsense, yet allowing Uhura, Sulu and Chekov to input opinions into the discussion. Even allows Chekov pull off a Russian joke! Loved those scenes.

Yup, FC is firmly entrenched in my Top 10, partly because the dialogue is so good that I can practically quote the whole thing - just fantastic, for every character - but also because the Scotty-in-command scenes are just simply outstanding.

 

[Pauln6]

One of my biggest criticisms of NuTrek is that they treated Scotty as an engineer first and an officer about fifth. Doohan portrayed Scotty as a highly capable officer.

 

[Commishsleer]

One of my biggest criticisms of NuTrek is that they treated Scotty as an engineer first and an officer about fifth. Doohan portrayed Scotty as a highly capable officer.

Can't imagine Scotty in command in nuTrek under any circumstances. Because of the casting of Pegg. I don't even get the nuTrek's Scotty is a fantastic engineer in nuTrek. Just there for comic relief.

Not that anyone else really had a chance of command in nuTrek because they haven't done the Kirk-Spock-McCoy landing party thing.

 

[johnnybear]

Simon Pegg is not an actor that commands anything I know, he is really believable in that type of role and is just there for the fun and laughs in the movie!
JB

 

[Pauln6]

The flip side I suppose is that Uhura also displayed a fair amount of command presence and was never given any command responsibilities .

 

[Phaser Two]

The flip side I suppose is that Uhura also displayed a fair amount of command presence and was never given any command responsibilities .

Yeah, although I liked DeSalle, they missed a huge opportunity in Catspaw by not having Uhura in command.

I also rewatched Obsession last week - it's one of my favorites because among other things, writer Art Wallace really understood the military aspects - and at the end, after Kirk and Garrovick beam up, Kirk calls the bridge and Uhura answers. He orders her to "have Mr. Chekov lay in a course to rendezvous with the Yorktown" - and given how much else Wallace got right about Starfleet protocol, I wonder if that was a subtle hint that Uhura was fifth-in-command. (Sulu was not in the episode.)

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah, although I liked DeSalle, they missed a huge opportunity in Catspaw by not having Uhura in command.

I also rewatched Obsession last week - it's one of my favorites because among other things, writer Art Wallace really understood the military aspects - and at the end, after Kirk and Garrovick beam up, Kirk calls the bridge and Uhura answers. He orders her to "have Mr. Chekov lay in a course to rendezvous with the Yorktown" - and given how much else Wallace got right about Starfleet protocol, I wonder if that was a subtle hint that Uhura was fifth-in-command. (Sulu was not in the episode.)

Yes, if they call the ship, they would normally speak with the officer of the watch. I think there are a couple of occasions where Uhura fills that role off camera. She was in a command uniform for a couple of episodes so it's not as if she doesn't have the qualifications.

 

[johnnybear]

I wonder why Mike Barrier never appeared in another episode?
JB

 

[Pauln6]

I wonder why Mike Barrier never appeared in another episode?
JB

He's one of the few guest actors to appear in, more than one series so it would have been nice to see him again but then I suppose it would have been nice to see Rand in the Trouble with Tribbles, or Ann Mulhall in the Immunity Syndrome, or Barrows in the Squire of Gothos.

 

[Phaser Two]

I wonder why Mike Barrier never appeared in another episode?
JB

Me too. He was particularly good in Squire.

 

[johnnybear]

Me too. He was particularly good in Squire.

"My ancestry is French..yes!"
JB

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

TOA

??

 

[GNDN18]

??

“A Taste of Armageddon”, I presume.

 

[Phaser Two]

Yup. Sorry for the confusion. Just use abbreviations for the ep titles sometimes.

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

Yup. Sorry for the confusion. Just use abbreviations for the ep titles sometimes.

I see. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Marynator]

I've always thought Turnabout Intruder would've been so very, very interesting if it was a planned finale for Star Trek, and instead of resolving it the way they did James Kirk is stuck in Janice Lester's body, but he's recognized as really being Captain Kirk and is back in command, but will spend the rest of his life as a woman. I feel that would've been an absolutely amazing ending for the show. We just wouldn't have had William Shatner in the movies lol.