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The Classic/Retro Pop Culture Thread

It was my choice of phrase, so if it will save us some pedantry, we can rephrase to "competition between two species". Is that a safe phrase?

It's not the phrasing, it's the wrongheaded idea it represents, that evolution is just a fight to the death. Conflict is just one of many survival strategies, and cooperation and symbiosis are quite common as well.


He's both. Clearly some of us prefer the film and some of us prefer the books, but this doesn't have to be a competition.

Really? The impression I've been getting from you throughout this is that you're totally dismissive of the books and don't even want us to talk about them at all. Every time someone brings up the books, you shoot them down and insist that the movie's version is the objectively superior and correct one. It sure feels like you see it as a competition. And as someone who's always been more familiar with the Clarke version and more fond of Clarke's style than Kubrick's, I feel snubbed by that, like you're telling me my tastes and my experience of the work are intrinsically inferior.

I mean, for pity's sake, this shouldn't even be about what any of us "prefer." This is a public bulletin board that could have hundreds or thousands of readers. Any given thread should be inclusive of all perspectives on a film, without them being treated as rival preferences. I've just been trying to offer an alternative to your film-centric perspective; you're the one reacting to that as a rivalry, protesting and dismissing it every time it's brought up.


Have you watched the clips at this site?
https://www.kubrick2001.com/
If you're only watching the film on a literal level, you're missing a lot.

And I'd say that if you only pay attention to the film and ignore the books, you're also missing a lot. And again you're condescending to me by implying that my position is the result of ignorance. I know perfectly well that Kubrick was going for a more symbolic and philosophical take. I don't need you to lecture me on that. I'm just trying to offer a broader perspective by including the books in the conversation as well.
 
wrongheaded idea
Nothing competitively dismissive about that, no sir.

Really? The impression I've been getting from you throughout this is that you're totally dismissive of the books and don't even want us to talk about them at all. Every time someone brings up the books, you shoot them down and insist that the movie's version is the objectively superior and correct one. It sure feels like you see it as a competition. And as someone who's always been more familiar with the Clarke version and more fond of Clarke's style than Kubrick's, I feel snubbed by that, like you're telling me my tastes and my experience of the work are intrinsically inferior.
My posts are going to reflect my preferences and my interpretation of the film...and it is the film that I'm reviewing and discussing. Browsing back over the last couple of pages, at least half of the times I've said anything regarding the film vs. the books, it's been in response to you pressing me to explain something that I said to somebody else that didn't get a rise out of them.

your film-centric perspective
Of...the film.

And I'd say that if you only pay attention to the film and ignore the books, you're also missing a lot.
I did read the first book.

I don't need you to lecture me on that.
That's rich! :guffaw:
 
If the Star Child is anything like Odysseus in this space odyssey, things may not be looking up for the suitors despoiling the Earth anymore than things were for that tribe of competing apes was after the monolith and the club idea came to mind to the apes at the start.
 
If the Star Child is anything like Odysseus in this space odyssey, things may not be looking up for the suitors despoiling the Earth anymore than things were for that tribe of competing apes was after the monolith and the club idea came to mind to the apes at the start.
CC51F676-E630-4EEB-9C8A-46753AEE4C1C.gif
Now that’s interesting!
 
I’m no expert on POTA, but I do have one thing to say:
Planet of the Dopes. :rommie:

And that would make Discovery....Well, I'll certainly be seeing that segment of the film a little differently.
Now that's how you slip a sex scene by the censors. :rommie:

I didn't actually remember that, but was boning up on the plot via Wiki. Guess it works for Clarke's vision. Doesn't really fit with my interpretation of Kubrick's, where the final confrontation between HAL and Bowman is part of evolution playing out...survival of the fittest between two species.
Well, actually, the implication is that Man is not necessarily the fittest-- he would have gone extinct without the Monolith. I always felt kind of bad for HAL, so I was happy when he was revived and repaired. One thing I really liked-- and I forget if this was made implicit in the movie-- is that Bowman actually asked the Monolith to save HAL, and it complied.

That's from '90, charted in '91.
Man, it all starts to squeeze together with age. Oddly, though, I have a couple of associational memories that are definitely from 1986 and I have no idea why.

10:39: Mike actually addresses the subject of the band not playing their own instruments in one of the segments at the radio station.
Interesting that they would go there.

Back at the radio station, Mike gives an on-air shout-out to some other acts of the day (24:10)....
That's a nice gesture.

But the Sheik decides to help anyway, just to get everyone off his damn lawn.
And that didn't work out very well in the long run.

I'd been finding myself growing bored of this show's samey-sameness, but this one was pretty interesting for what it had to offer.
Of the war shows, Twelve O'Clock High seems to be the better one.

If the Star Child is anything like Odysseus in this space odyssey, things may not be looking up for the suitors despoiling the Earth anymore than things were for that tribe of competing apes was after the monolith and the club idea came to mind to the apes at the start.
At the end of the book, the Star-Child explodes all of the orbiting nuclear weapons. There has always been some debate as to whether this was meant to imply that the Earth was "cleansed" of Humanity (although the book explicitly says "harmlessly"). And then there is this description of the intelligence behind the Monolith, which Clarke returned to several times during the series: “And because, in all the Galaxy, they had found nothing more precious than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They became farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes they reaped. And sometimes, dispassionately, they had to weed.” This theme returns in a big way in 3001.
 
One reason I've never liked the movie that much is because it gives so little explanation for HAL's breakdown and can easily be misread as just another example of what was already a tired cinematic cliche of AIs being arbitrarily evil just because they're not human.

HAL was not presented as evil, but conflicted; early on, he has a warm "friendship" with Bowman and Poole, but still has programmed orders to follow at their expense, hence his questioning / pleading with Bowman, as the latter begins to deactivate him. He's acting like someone with a guilty conscience, but had no control over his programmed actions. That's a far cry from the standard evil computer plot device in seen in endless TV episodes and movies of the period.
 
HAL was the most human character in the film. Poole was a cipher; Floyd and Bowman were almost robotic in performing their assigned roles.

Maybe Bowman was not the best choice for the journey beyond the stars.
 
At the end of the book, the Star-Child explodes all of the orbiting nuclear weapons. There has always been some debate as to whether this was meant to imply that the Earth was "cleansed" of Humanity (although the book explicitly says "harmlessly").

I don't think the nukes exploding in orbit would do that much damage to life on the ground, depending on their altitude and yield. The atmosphere itself is thick enough to shield life on Earth from the intense radiation that's already out there in space all the time (which is why Star Trek: TNG's "Final Mission" subplot of a planet endangered by the radiation from a nuclear garbage scow caught in orbit is ridiculous). At most, all those explosions at once could've eroded the ozone layer rather badly, possibly cause a surge of UV on the surface (as the gamma radiation was absorbed by the atmosphere and re-emitted as UV) or some lightning storms, but I think that would've taken something far more intense, like a supernova (or a passing pulsar, as in Star Trek: Mere Anarchy). If they were low enough, they could've caused EMPs that disrupted technology.

I always took the ending to mean that Star Child Bowman was taking our deadly toys away from us for our protection.
 
_______

50th Anniversary Viewing

_______

The Ed Sullivan Show
Season 20, episode 32
Originally aired April 21, 1968
As represented in The Best of the Ed Sullivan Show

Tom Jones opens the Best of edit with a run-through of his breakout hit, "It's Not Unusual," accompanied by a big band with a conductor.
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(Charted Apr. 10, 1965; #10 US; #3 AC; #26 R&B; #1 UK)

Next we get the latest Muppets installment...this is the one with what appears to be Kermit in drag, though I think they're just trying to pass him off as a female frog Muppet.

"I've Grown Accustomed to Your Face"
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A quick bit of research tells me that (s)he was lip-synching to a Rosemary Clooney song. And it looks like this was the second time they did this particular skit on the show...the original was in February 1967.

Patty Duke, who had a recording career that produced a couple of Top 30 hits in 1965, performs a Yiddish-origin song called "Dona, Dona," accompanied by male and female dancers in costumes that look Eastern European or Russian.

Mr. Pastry then does a skit that tv.com tells me is something called "The Passing Out Ceremony," which involves him imbibing drinks that leave food coloring on his mustache and hopping back and forth between two facing chairs. Ed participates in the performance, holding the tray of drinks.

Tom Jones returns to plug his then-current hit, "Delilah," which is still in the process of climbing to its peak position 50 years ago this week.
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There's a case of the intro indicating that it was likely the first performance in the original episode. And you'd think that it was his first time on the show...he'd been on many times going back to '65.

Totie Fields does a self-deprecating version of a song called "I'm Perfect," which involves going out and interacting with members of the audience.

Closing the Best of installment,Tom Jones comes out one more time for the Irish standard "Danny Boy," arranged to suit his style.
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Also in the original episode according to tv.com:
Music:
--Patty Duke - "And We Were Strangers."
--Your Father's Moustache (Dixieland band) - perform a medley of vintage songs.

Also appearing:
--Pavel (magic act)
--Audience bows: Captain Geoff Mitchell & other captains, Major General William J. Sutton, and Kevin Robinson.

_______

Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In
Season 1, episode 13
Originally aired April 22, 1968
The Wiki list of guest appearances said:
Shelley Berman, John Byner, Johnny Carson, Tim Conway, Hugh Downs, Barbara Feldon, John Wayne, Flip Wilson, Paul Winchell

At the beginning of the episode rather than the end, Dan actually manages to get in an announcement of one of next week's guests: Tiny Tim.

This week's News from 1988 president is Shirley Temple.

Mod, Mod World looks at advertising.
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_______

The Avengers
"Get-a-Way!"
Originally aired April 24, 1968 (US); May 14, 1969 (UK)
Wiki said:
Three captured Russian spies, one of whom is assigned to assassinate Steed, escape from a seemingly escape-proof prison hidden in Oldhill Monastery. Steed investigates a suspicious consignment of vodka recently delivered there, whilst Tara finds a clue in a magazine article about camouflage.

It's back to the armor intro for this one.

I'd hardly describe the facility as escape-proof when they send one guy into the cell to check when the occupant seems to be missing...who promptly gets knocked out by the occupant. That's the oldest trick in the book. It turns out that the agents, whose escapes play out one by one through the episode, do have a gimmick helping them...some sort of chameleon chemical that's being smuggled in trick bottles of vodka with a separate lower chamber in them...which they dip their backsides into while fully clothed. I knew those conspicuously placed bathtubs in the cells would come into play somehow.

In the climax, Steed uses the gimmick to get the drop on his would-be assassin, the last escapee...Peter Bowles, whom I recognize from previous roles on the show. They try to play him up as Steed's opposite number, but he was unconvincing as such to me because of the age difference...Bowles was 14 years Macnee's junior.

_______

TGs2e30.jpg
"Old Man's Darling"
Originally aired April 25, 1968
Wiki said:
An elderly man who ruins Ann dress get her a new one and keeps buying her gifts which she feels that she can't accept.


After the cocktail party incident, in which Ann refuses to let Mr. Washington pay her dry cleaning bill, she learns that he's one of the ten richest men in the country.
Ann said:
Whaddya know? I could've taken him to the cleaners.


Jesse White returns as press agent Eddie Edwards, previously seen in this season's "Just Spell the Name Right." This episode he offers Ann a good part if she can procure some financing from her new suitor.

In the end, Ann relents and requests one gift of the charming and persistent Mr. Washington: peanut brittle. He has a 300-pound box delivered that won't fit in her door.

"Oh, Donald" count: 2
"Oh, Daddy" count: 0, though he is in the episode

And that's a wrap for Season 2 of That Girl. We'll be seeing her again in September.

_______

Well, actually, the implication is that Man is not necessarily the fittest-- he would have gone extinct without the Monolith.
In that moment, he put down his deadly new rival, HAL...and symbolically began to divest himself of his tools, ready to move on to the next stage, when he wouldn't need them anymore.

Man, it all starts to squeeze together with age. Oddly, though, I have a couple of associational memories that are definitely from 1986 and I have no idea why.
The band was around in that era, though obscure. Don't know if that's what it would be.

Of the war shows, Twelve O'Clock High seems to be the better one.
There's also Black Sheep Squadron, which I've started recording from H&I to watch now that the retro TV season is winding down. It nicely balances wartime action/adventure with drama, and a good amount of humor stemming from the Black Sheep being a bunch of regulation-defying screwballs and misfits...with Robert Conrad's charismatic portrayal of Pappy Boyington setting the example. Plus, lots of nice, then-new color footage of F4U Corsairs!
 
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_______

50 Years Ago This Week
April 29 – The musical Hair officially opens on Broadway.

May 2 – The Israel Broadcasting Authority commences television broadcasts.
May 3 – Braniff Flight 352 crashes near Dawson, Texas, killing all 85 persons on board.

Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles Day by Day said:
May 4: Mary Hopkin wins a heat[?] on the ITV talent-spotting programme Opportunity Knocks.
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Selections from Billboard's Hot 100 for the week, with Bubbling Under bonus:
1. "Honey," Bobby Goldsboro
2. "Cry Like a Baby," The Box Tops
3. "Young Girl," The Union Gap feat. Gary Puckett
4. "Lady Madonna," The Beatles
5. "Tighten Up," Archie Bell & The Drells
6. "I Got the Feelin'," James Brown & The Famous Flames
7. "Cowboys to Girls," The Intruders
8. "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly," Hugo Montenegro, His Orchestra & Chorus
9. "A Beautiful Morning," The Rascals
10. "The Unicorn," The Irish Rovers
11. "If You Can Want," Smokey Robinson & The Miracles
12. "Dance to the Music," Sly & The Family Stone
13. "Take Time to Know Her," Percy Sledge
14. "Summertime Blues," Blue Cheer
15. "The Ballad of Bonnie and Clyde," Georgie Fame
16. "Ain't No Way," Aretha Franklin
17. "Love Is All Around," The Troggs
18. "Sweet Inspiration," The Sweet Inspirations
19. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay," Otis Redding
20. "Shoo-Be-Doo-Be-Doo-Da-Day," Stevie Wonder
21. "Do You Know the Way to San Jose," Dionne Warwick
22. "Sweet Sweet Baby (Since You've Been Gone)," Aretha Franklin
23. "Funky Street," Arthur Conley
24. "Playboy," Gene & Debbe
25. "Ain't Nothing Like the Real Thing," Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell
26. "La-La Means I Love You," The Delfonics
27. "Delilah," Tom Jones
28. "Forever Came Today," Diana Ross & The Supremes
29. "Mighty Quinn (Quinn the Eskimo)," Manfred Mann
30. "Soul Serenade," Willie Mitchell
31. "U.S. Male," Elvis Presley
32. "Mrs. Robinson," Simon & Garfunkel

34. "Mony Mony," Tommy James & The Shondells
35. "Love Is Blue (L'amour Est Bleu)," Paul Mauriat & His Orchestra
36. "Scarborough Fair / Canticle," Simon & Garfunkel

39. "The Unknown Soldier," The Doors
40. "Call Me Lightning," The Who
41. "She's Lookin' Good," Wilson Pickett

45. "Valleri," The Monkees
46. "Like to Get to Know You," Spanky & Our Gang
47. "The Happy Song (Dum-Dum)," Otis Redding
48. "Does Your Mama Know About Me," Bobby Taylor & The Vancouvers

52. "Jennifer Juniper," Donovan

63. "Master Jack," Four Jacks and a Jill

69. "If I Were a Carpenter," Four Tops

82. "(You Keep Me) Hangin' On," Joe Simon

85. "I Love You," People

87. "I Could Never Love Another (After Loving You)," The Temptations
88. "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy," Ohio Express

91. "Never Give You Up," Jerry Butler
92. "I Have a Dream," The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

97. "Angel of the Morning," Merrilee Rush & The Turnabouts

123. "Alone Again Or," Love


Leaving the chart:
  • "Kiss Me Goodbye," Petula Clark
  • "Simon Says," 1910 Fruitgum Co.

New on the chart:

"I Have a Dream," The Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I was unable to find a video specific to this 1968 Mercury single, an excerpt from Dr. King's iconic 1963 speech; nor could I find other chart information beyond what the Billboard site shows.
(#88 US)

"Never Give You Up," Jerry Butler
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(#20 US; #4 R&B)

"I Could Never Love Another (After Loving You)," The Temptations
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(#13 US; #1 R&B; #47 UK; note the album cover photo, which appears to be tied into the video for "Get Ready" that aired on Laugh-In)

"Angel of the Morning," Merrilee Rush & The Turnabouts
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(#7 US; #37 AC)

"Yummy, Yummy, Yummy," Ohio Express
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(#4 US; #5 UK)


Bubbling Under:

"Alone Again Or," Love
(#123 US; #58 UK; #436 on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time)


And new on the boob tube:
  • The Ed Sullivan Show, Season 20, episode 33, featuring Ella Fitzgerald, Richard Harris, Jerry Stiller & Ann Meara, and Richiardi
  • Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, Season 1, episode 14 (season finale)
  • The Avengers, "Have Guns-Will Haggle"
_______
 
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Tom Jones opens the Best of edit with a run-through of his breakout hit, "It's Not Unusual," accompanied by a big band with a conductor.
I like Tom Jones and this song, despite his lounge-act persona, but that's not unusual.

Next we get the latest Muppets installment...this is the one with what appears to be Kermit in drag, though I think they're just trying to pass him off as a female frog Muppet.
Well, considering frog reproduction, he's probably got thousands of nearly identical siblings.

Tom Jones returns to plug his then-current hit, "Delilah," which is still in the process of climbing to its peak position 50 years ago this week.
Good one. A nice, cheerful ditty about a crime of passion.

Closing the Best of installment,Tom Jones comes out one more time for the Irish standard "Danny Boy," arranged to suit his style.
It's okay, but his style doesn't really suit "Danny Boy."

I'd hardly describe the facility as escape-proof when they send one guy into the cell to check when the occupant seems to be missing...who promptly gets knocked out by the occupant. That's the oldest trick in the book.
I saw this one not too long ago. It definitely seemed campier.

It turns out that the agents, whose escapes play out one by one through the episode, do have a gimmick helping them...some sort of chameleon chemical that's being smuggled in trick bottles of vodka with a separate lower chamber in them...which they dip their backsides into while fully clothed.
I got a kick out of that: Turn around and disappear.

After the cocktail party incident, in which Ann refuses to let Mr. Washington pay her dry cleaning bill, she learns that he's one of the ten richest men in the country.
But has he ever sent his car to Mars?

In that moment, he put down his deadly new rival, HAL...and symbolically began to divest himself of his tools, ready to move on to the next stage, when he wouldn't need them anymore.
He was definitely leaving his old life behind forever, but I can't see HAL as a rival. HAL was all about the mission.

I think you're right. I'm connecting to "Pleasure and Pain," the only other song of theirs that I know.

There's also Black Sheep Squadron, which I've started recording from H&I to watch now that the retro TV season is winding down. It nicely balances wartime action/adventure with drama, and a good amount of humor stemming from the Black Sheep being a bunch of regulation-defying screwballs and misfits...with Robert Conrad's charismatic portrayal of Pappy Boyington setting the example. Plus, lots of nice, then-new color footage of F4U Corsairs!
I remember that one, but I never watched it (as I recall, it premiered as "Baa Baa, Black Sheep," but the name was quickly changed-- not attracting the desired audience, I suppose).

"Never Give You Up," Jerry Butler
Proto-Rick Roll. Not much that's memorable here.

"I Could Never Love Another (After Loving You)," The Temptations
Not exactly their best.

"Angel of the Morning," Merrilee Rush & The Turnabouts
But this, of course, is an absolute classic. :bolian:

"Yummy, Yummy, Yummy," Ohio Express
And I absolutely love this one-- half because it's funny and half because it totally got past the censors. :rommie:

I'm not familiar with that one. Pretty nice.
 
In that moment, he put down his deadly new rival, HAL...and symbolically began to divest himself of his tools, ready to move on to the next stage, when he wouldn't need them anymore.

That's a strangely technophobic reading, considering that it was the first Monolith that inspired our ancestors to create tools in the first place, and given that the aliens specifically designed the test so that we wouldn't be able to reach the other two Monoliths and make contact with them until our tools matured to the stage that we could leave our own planet. The whole process was designed to encourage and reward human tool use, to make technological progress a prerequisite for passing the intelligence test. That's clear enough even within the movie alone, from the simple fact of where the Monoliths are located.
 
He was definitely leaving his old life behind forever, but I can't see HAL as a rival. HAL was all about the mission.
He was so about the mission that he felt that those hairless apes were a liability to it and was willing to kill them to prevent them from jeopardizing it.

In order to get as far as he had by 2001 in the movie, man had to develop tools that were so advanced that one of them got the notion to do away with the monkeys pushing his buttons. The next phase for man, as depicted in the film, involves growing out of his dependence on tools.

I'm going to get around to writing up the rest of the movie...soon, I hope. Though it feels like we've already talked it to death.

I remember that one, but I never watched it (as I recall, it premiered as "Baa Baa, Black Sheep," but the name was quickly changed-- not attracting the desired audience, I suppose).
It still only managed to be a one-and-a-half-seasons wonder...the poor bastards were up against Happy Days and Laverne & Shirley the first season, Charlie's Angels the second.

Not much that's memorable here.
I gotta disagree. Originally the lead singer of the Impressions in the late '50s, Butler had a strong, distinctive voice, and this is a good sample of his wares...very soulful with an enjoyable groove.

Not exactly their best.
This one's OK, but yeah...after the relative standout "I Wish It Would Rain," we're back to to counting down the singles until the Temptations reinvent themselves as a psychedelic soul act. (And that would be two.)

But this, of course, is an absolute classic. :bolian:
Yep. Though Merrilee was strictly a one-hit wonder, the song will be back in the Top 10 when Juice Newton covers it in 1981.

And I absolutely love this one-- half because it's funny and half because it totally got past the censors. :rommie:
The sound is pure bubblegum, but it's definitely a classic, and I guess they get points for being subversive bubblegum.

I'm not familiar with that one. Pretty nice.
A total obscuro that I was exposed to via the Rolling Stone list. Forever Changes is reputed to be a highly regarded example of a psychedelic-era album, and it's coming up soon on my list of prospective album purchases.
 
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He was so about the mission that he felt that those hairless apes were a liability to it and was willing to kill them to prevent them from jeopardizing it.

See, this is one of my biggest problems with the film. It doesn't explain the real reasons for HAL's breakdown and thus lends itself to that hackneyed, xenophobic "AIs are automatically evil" reading that it shares with dozens of much schlockier B-movies. I much prefer the interpretation that the book makes clear and that 2010 finally put on screen -- that HAL was a victim of the authorities who gave him orders to lie despite his intrinsic need to report data accurately, and his inability to resolve the conflict caused a psychotic break. As is so often the case, the real cause of the problem is the people in power making decisions without regard for how they harm everyone else.
 
That's a strangely technophobic reading, considering that it was the first Monolith that inspired our ancestors to create tools in the first place, and given that the aliens specifically designed the test so that we wouldn't be able to reach the other two Monoliths and make contact with them until our tools matured to the stage that we could leave our own planet. The whole process was designed to encourage and reward human tool use, to make technological progress a prerequisite for passing the intelligence test. That's clear enough even within the movie alone, from the simple fact of where the Monoliths are located.
No, if the aliens are non-corporeal as in the books, the movie having Dave divest himself of instrumentality is the future. The tools are limited to the imagination of the users. Even HAL has that problem, why is the mission important? What's he supposed to do afterwards? None of that occurs to HAL. The monoliths aren't tests, they are more like hoops to jump through to the next level of development.
 
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Another classic.

He was so about the mission that he felt that those hairless apes were a liability to it and was willing to kill them to prevent them from jeopardizing it.
Nothing like that was ever implied. The only motivations ever shown on screen were devotion to duty and self defense (as shaped by mental illness). We could just as easily postulate that he was under the control of the Monolith the whole time, weeding out the unnecessary crew and guiding Bowman to abandon ship and enter the Monolith.

In order to get as far as he had by 2001 in the movie, man had to develop tools that were so advanced that one of them got the notion to do away with the monkeys pushing his buttons. The next phase for man, as depicted in the film, involves growing out of his dependence on tools.
More like being adopted by the biggest tool of all. So to speak.

I'm going to get around to writing up the rest of the movie...soon, I hope. Though it feels like we've already talked it to death.
It's kind of cool that it still inspires so much discussion a half century later.

I gotta disagree. Originally the lead singer of the Impressions in the late '50s, Butler had a strong, distinctive voice, and this is a good sample of his wares...very soulful with an enjoyable groove.
Nice enough voice, but there's not much to the song.

Yep. Though Merrilee was strictly a one-hit wonder, the song will be back in the Top 10 when Juice Newton covers it in 1981.
Yeah, good old Juice Newton. She performed at my local theater once.

The sound is pure bubblegum, but it's definitely a classic, and I guess they get points for being subversive bubblegum.
There's nothing wrong with bubblegum as part of a complete breakfast. Or something like that.
 
No, if the aliens are non-corporeal as in the books, the movie having Dave divest himself of instrumentality is the future. The tools are limited to the imagination of the users.

I still say that's missing the point. See Clarke's Third Law. What looks like magic is just sufficiently advanced technology.

And tools enhance the imagination of the users. They allow imagination to be turned into reality. We could always imagine going to the Moon; tools let us actually do it. Tools aren't our adversaries, they're our brainchildren, extensions of our thoughts and organs and limbs. They're part of us.


Even HAL has that problem, why is the mission important? What's he supposed to do afterwards? None of that occurs to HAL.

None of that was his responsibility to decide. HAL was created to provide accurate information. That was his purpose -- to help, to inform, to support, to protect. That's why being programmed to deceive the people he was instinctively driven to tell the truth to, to knowingly let them risk danger when his driving need was to take care of them, was so intolerable and irreconcilable and drove him to snap.


The monoliths aren't tests, they are more like hoops to jump through to the next level of development.

2001 was inspired in part Clarke's short story "The Sentinel," in which an alien signaling device discovered on the Moon served to alert the aliens that humanity had developed the technology to reach the Moon. In the story, it was a warning signal -- "Look out, the apes have atom bombs now" -- but in 2001, it was more to confirm to the aliens that we had achieved spaceflight and were ready to be contacted. It's like how in Star Trek, a species has to invent warp drive before the Federation deems it ready for first contact. The 2001 aliens built the Monoliths as the keys to that process. The ancient Monolith set hominids on the path to tool use and greater intelligence. TMA-1 was buried on the Moon so that its unearthing, its exposure to sunlight for the first time in millions of years, would activate its signal, telling the aliens that we were now spacefaring. And that signal led to the larger Monolith at Jupiter, which was the Stargate allowing us to actually make direct contact.

What happens after that is supposed to be too alien for us to understand. It's what we'd now call post-Singularity, beyond the point of technological progress where prediction becomes impossible because we lack the conceptual basis. So anything we project onto it is probably wrong, or at least incomplete.
 
I still say that's missing the point. See Clarke's Third Law. What looks like magic is just sufficiently advanced technology.
Clarke's Law is sophistic poppycock to justify the author doing whatever they want without having to explain it. It's a fancy sounding way to say their doing an asspull.

As to the rest, HAL is a machine, that's the point. He is limited. Responsibility to think beyond his programing? Responsibility is irrelevant. He's a machine and incapable of those questions. That's why he's not evolving beyond his state unlike Dave or the apes earlier.

No kidding, the sentinel was an earlier story. Wow, so what. The movie is not the sentinel nor is it beholding to it anymore than Forbidden Planet is beholding to the Tempest or 2001 to the book. Viewers certainly are not beholden to the book for their interpretations. That's the beauty of thinking beyond the programming.
 
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