Visual Effects in Discovery

[Rahul]

Only about half way through LiS. But as the beginning of that video shows, there are vfx in many if not most of the outdoors shots, if only to put in the implausible backgrounds with the sideways mountains and fake trees. In contrast, it seems like VFX in Discovery are 90% used for space shots, which are of course 100% fake. I know that there are little VFX added into many of the live action scenes (holographic displays, turning the Pahvo vegetation blueish, etc) but these seem to be much more limited (other than the scenes on Vulcan, which were heavily CGI) to little things like adding weapons fire and 3D displays. Which actually makes it seem more "fake" in a way, because they're not seamlessly put together.

Honestly though, due to the structure of Discovery vs. Lost in Space, I think Discovery had the harder task ahead of it. The designers (both of special and practical effects) basically just had to come up with one set of designs for the whole season of LiS. On the other hand, DIS needed to waste time on designs which would be used for a single episode and then thrown away (like those weird butterfly-like Klingon fighters). In a certain way the series would have benefited tremendously from more, rather than less, serialization. Like, having a two-parter on Pahvo would have both made the location shooting cheaper, along with cutting down on the VFX budget (since they could use the blue sparkly aliens again).

Both shows use enhancements for their landscape shots: LiS for the weir geography of the planet. But DIS also had the entire sky changed digitally when they shot in Jordan in the pilot, and inccluded alien nests, and all the people-in-landscapes shots on Pahvo were heavily enhanced as well.

LiS has IMO less of those types of shots: They have a vfx enhanced wide shot: Showing the characters in the alien environment, but then all the close-ups of them walking through the woods are very rarely enhanced. Both shows are good in this regard.

LiS has just waaay less space scenes than DIS, which on the other hand look infinitely better. The same can be said for alien environments: Vulcan, the planet of the secret meeting in "Lethe", the zoom-in shots of Kronos: They all look massively underwhelimng compared to, say, the vehicles in LiS mingling with the starship on the quarrie.

What's amazing is how many different creatures LiS is bringing convincably to the screen: Not just the main robot, but also dinosaur-like predators (though they are always shown at night, so this helps), and various other alien being (the eels, crabs, butterflies, plants,...). DIS only has Ripper and Mudd's critter. As well as the Pahvoians (), but also lots of spore funghi stuff (which looked nice).

OTOH DIS has definitely more show extensions - viewscreen/windows, forcefields, and lots and lots of phaser shots. But this is usually the stuff DIS manages to get right as well, they mostly only fail with the space shots - IMO because they have a thousand different starships and designs, but none of them are as finished or detailed as LiS' handfull of crafts and ships.

 

[PixelMagic]

... they mostly only fail with the space shots - IMO because they have a thousand different starships and designs, but none of them are as finished or detailed as LiS' handfull of crafts and ships.

Discovery's CG models are fine. The ball is getting dropped on lighting and compositing. I don't know whether this is due to time constraints or bad art direction from the higher ups, but Pixomondo has the talent to match Lost in Space's CG if given proper conditions.

 

[pst]

LiS also has a lot more on-location shootings than DIS (which is usually more expensive), and much better production design. It's hard to believe that DIS is a waaaay more expensive show than LiS. Someone really dropped the ball behind the scenes.

i'm no defender of discovery, but i'll disagree with you about the production design of the two series.

it's obviously a matter of taste which design choices you prefer. but, i think discovery has a far more coherent look than lost in space -- which felt a lot like the martian-lite to me. what's up with the mix of toggle switches and iPhones in lost in space? i get why they used some retro tech in discovery (it's the 23rd century via 1960s), but lost in space doesn't really get away with the same stylization when they're trying to be grounded.

i also thought discovery's money is pretty clearly on the screen in its sets. just look at the static, laser-etched acrylic displays on the jupiter 2 versus the clear glass displays with projected 3D graphics (i don't know how they did it) on the discovery and shenzhou.

still, the VFX in lost in space are so much better. just so much better. as are all of the planetside scenes. so yeah.

 

[Q2UnME]

Actually, if you look at the $ per episode spent on each production, they are almost the same (roughly 6 million). I think LIS just has a natural "real" style and all their design decisions echo that. I think DISC has a very stylized ascetic and it's just not holding up to the audience expectations. Lighting, light bloom, space shots ... all very stylized. Not a fan.

 

[DanielPMonut]

Discovery's CG models are fine. The ball is getting dropped on lighting and compositing. I don't know whether this is due to time constraints or bad art direction from the higher ups, but Pixomondo has the talent to match Lost in Space's CG if given proper conditions.

I think it's a combination of these two things; the directives about lighting and visual style that come down from production on pretty much every shot seem to boil down to 'more spec, more spec!' and 'can we make this nebula more intense?' Plus, the color grading favored by the cinematographers in s01 isn't doing anybody any favors. But when there's time, as with the pilot or with the battle to rescue the Gagarin, the team still is able to make some really beautiful images out of that, IMO, even though it's not the visual style I'd pick.

There's a noticeable difference between stuff like that and some later stuff in the season like the flashbacks to the Charon and the ISS Buran, and the fact that this stuff is most apparent late in the season (i.e. at crunch time) tells a story. Additionally, one of the things mentioned in some of the interviews about budgeting and delays is that a ton of money went into sets and production design, and I'm not sure if a lot of the EPs had a sense going in of what the VFX were going to cost; most of them just haven't had to do breakdowns on a show of this scale (there's a interview with Ted Sullivan or somebody to this effect, I think from a convention back in late fall). So I wouldn't be surprised if S01's VFX were deeply underbid, compared to the volume of work.

 

[BillJ]

The quality of Lost in Space (both story and visuals) just represents another nail in the Discovery coffin for me.

 

[Krandor]

The quality of Lost in Space (both story and visuals) just represents another nail in the Discovery coffin for me.

It is not possible to watch and enjoy both?

 

[DanielPMonut]

The quality of Lost in Space (both story and visuals) just represents another nail in the Discovery coffin for me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[eschaton]

The quality of Lost in Space (both story and visuals) just represents another nail in the Discovery coffin for me.

The one thing that's off in LiS is the pacing. It's weirdly languid at times. I think a lot of the episodes could have stood to have 5-10 minutes of shots edited out.

 

[pst]

The one thing that's off in LiS is the pacing. It's weirdly languid at times. I think a lot of the episodes could have stood to have 5-10 minutes of shots edited out.

netflix bloat.

It is not possible to watch and enjoy both?

no. just like with the orville, you can only like one. pick now.

 

[eschaton]

netflix bloat.

Yeah, I know the cause of it. It's just weird though. I mean, I'm onto the 5th episode by now. In the last one - the 4th - there were tons of scenes which totally were not needed. For example, having Dr. Smith follow the children through the forest step by step. it would have worked just as well with a single scene with her outside the cave. Judy's repeated flashbacks to being trapped in ice are ridiculous as well. This is a Netflix show - we didn't watch the last episode a week ago, we don't need to be continually reminded what happened in the first episode.

It's funny, because it's exactly the reverse of many modern movies, where so many crucial elements of the original script are cut that the plot seems nonsensical. Here there are additional scenes which don't seem to either further plot or characterization. They're just there to look pretty.

 

[BillJ]

It is not possible to watch and enjoy both?

It would be, if both were good. Discovery just suffers badly against most modern shows (Counterpart, Lost in Space, The Handmaid's Tale, Occupied, The Orville, Westworld and a slew of others) and pretty much all of Star Trek.

The one thing that's off in LiS is the pacing. It's weirdly languid at times. I think a lot of the episodes could have stood to have 5-10 minutes of shots edited out.

I'm enjoying the more deliberate pacing. It is a nice change from everything that is rush, rush, rush.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Many elements of DSC have me disappointed, including the VFX. The VFX have basically all just been perfunctory.

 

[BillJ]

Many elements of DSC have me disappointed...

I'll give it another try when it comes back. But the rope will be much shorter, not waiting around for twelve episodes for them to get their act together.

 

[DaveyNY]

As a kid who grew up watching TV from 1963 on, I decided to do an all day binge watch of the entire Netflix "Lost in Space" this past Monday...

Loved it !
Took me a couple of episodes to get use to the new Robot, but otherwise it felt to me, like The Producers really tried staying true to the original show even with all the visual changes.
And I think They pulled it off.
I especially liked that They used the original theme quite often, throughout all ten episodes and the multiple Easter-Eggs to the original show and actors.
Can't wait for Season 2.

Discovery on the other hand, feels to me like its trying too hard to be different, while constantly claiming to be the same.
It just feels 'off' to me and I can't really pinpoint the reasons yet.

 

[lawman]

I keep hearing good things about the new Lost in Space, about not just the effects but the show overall. Sounds like it's worth adding to my list. But! I am someone who has literally never seen an episode of the original (nor have I heard much good about it). So let me ask: without any prior sentimental attachment, is this a show I can enjoy as a newcomer?

 

[Jadeb]

You can absolutely enjoy it as a newcomer. I'd be interested to hear your opinion of it, especially as someone coming to it with a blank slate.

 

[pst]

I keep hearing good things about the new Lost in Space, about not just the effects but the show overall. Sounds like it's worth adding to my list. But! I am someone who has literally never seen an episode of the original (nor have I heard much good about it). So let me ask: without any prior sentimental attachment, is this a show I can enjoy as a newcomer?

i have no attachment to lost in space. i saw the 1998 lost in space, but even as a teenager i knew that was awful.

the netflix series is perfectly mediocre. inoffensive. sometimes fun. i appreciate the clarity of the storytelling.

 

[Mudd]

I keep hearing good things about the new Lost in Space, about not just the effects but the show overall. Sounds like it's worth adding to my list. But! I am someone who has literally never seen an episode of the original (nor have I heard much good about it). So let me ask: without any prior sentimental attachment, is this a show I can enjoy as a newcomer?

It's entertaining, and a great deal more intelligently written and well-produced than STD.

It's not brilliant. Not much is. It's no Westworld.

 

[fireproof78]

I keep hearing good things about the new Lost in Space, about not just the effects but the show overall. Sounds like it's worth adding to my list. But! I am someone who has literally never seen an episode of the original (nor have I heard much good about it). So let me ask: without any prior sentimental attachment, is this a show I can enjoy as a newcomer?

I sure hope a newcomer can enjoy because that's what I am.