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Kirk on the USS Saratoga?

TrickyDickie

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Photo contact sheets exist of re-dressed Enterprise interior views of the Saratoga with descriptions including "Kirk's quarters".

Which movie were they for? Voyage Home? Was the film originally going to be significantly different?

Where is there more info about this?

Always love the 'what might have been' and would like to know more.

Thanks
 
Discussed previously a few years ago. This post (link) links to the photos in question. In short, they are just photos of the Enterprise sets in the shape they were sometime during or before the filming of ST4. My guess it was part of an assessment of the state of the sets as they were left after ST3, because I can still see battle damage scorching on the bridge set, albeit the way some of the bridge consoles have been disassembled this might've been just after filming the Saratoga scenes and as they were starting to redress the set to be the -A. The reason they say "Saratoga" was likely because that was what the bridge was primarily being used for. Either that or they didn't want anyone who got their hands on them to see "Enterprise" and know the ship was coming back.
 
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Yes, those are the photos. Thanks for the link to the other thread. A lot of interesting stuff. What intrigues me the most, though, is the wording about Kirk's quarters on the Saratoga. We didn't see Kirk's quarters on the Enterprise-A in TVH, so I'm wondering if there is an earlier draft script out there somewhere that might shed some light on this. Deleted scenes? It's been over 30 years since I read the novelization for TVH, so I don't remember if Kirk's quarters figure into that.
 
Yes, those are the photos. Thanks for the link to the other thread. A lot of interesting stuff. What intrigues me the most, though, is the wording about Kirk's quarters on the Saratoga. We didn't see Kirk's quarters on the Enterprise-A in TVH, so I'm wondering if there is an earlier draft script out there somewhere that might shed some light on this. Deleted scenes? It's been over 30 years since I read the novelization for TVH, so I don't remember if Kirk's quarters figure into that.
There were no such scenes scripted for Star Trek IV. The sets are largely in the shape they were left after ST3, such as McCoy's office being redressed as the Klingon sickbay.

As I wrote above, the reason they say "Saratoga" was likely because that was what the bridge was primarily being used for. Either that or they didn't want anyone who got their hands on them to see "Enterprise" and know the ship was coming back.
 
So, then....the set for Kirk's quarters was simply there, remaining from TWOK, because at the end of filming it was unknown what subsequent scripts might call for it and it was easier to leave it in place rather than build a new one? That pretty much wrap it up? Sigh....unseen footage would have been really cool.

Anyhow....quite a number of months before TVH came out, I pitched a story idea to Bob Greenberger at DC involving the return of the original Enterprise from just before the destruct sequence. He said it wouldn't fly because "something very much like the Enterprise shows up in the next movie." I still appreciate that little piece of info that not every fan had at the time. :techman:
 
The TMP sets were left standing and redressed as necessary or expedient. The bar where McCoy encounters our old (and seemingly forgotten) "To our planet, welcome," pal (what did we used to call him? Something like Griknak?) was a redress of the sickbay ward.
 
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"Your planet, welcome!"

:lol:
 
Discussed previously a few years ago. This post (link) links to the photos in question. In short, they are just photos of the Enterprise sets in the shape they were sometime during or before the filming of ST4. My guess it was part of an assessment of the state of the sets as they were left after ST3, because I can still see battle damage scorching on the bridge set, albeit the way some of the bridge consoles have been disassembled this might've been just after filming the Saratoga scenes and as they were starting to redress the set to be the -A. The reason they say "Saratoga" was likely because that was what the bridge was primarily being used for. Either that or they didn't want anyone who got their hands on them to see "Enterprise" and know the ship was coming back.

I was sure someone would grab these slides from eBay a couple of years ago.

If anyone buys them and posts large format images here, I promise I will view them. I may even critique your scanning technique.
 
So, then....the set for Kirk's quarters was simply there, remaining from TWOK, because at the end of filming it was unknown what subsequent scripts might call for it and it was easier to leave it in place rather than build a new one? That pretty much wrap it up? Sigh....unseen footage would have been really cool.

Anyhow....quite a number of months before TVH came out, I pitched a story idea to Bob Greenberger at DC involving the return of the original Enterprise from just before the destruct sequence. He said it wouldn't fly because "something very much like the Enterprise shows up in the next movie." I still appreciate that little piece of info that not every fan had at the time. :techman:

What did your plot entail?
 
What I always hated and wondered about was why they just turned the helm console around for the Grissom and then of course it was left that way and then used again with a repaint for the Saratoga.
We know the set could be reconfigured so why not move the stations around and give us a better looking bridge set like they did for the Reliant? The other problem with the way they did it was it could only be filmed from one direction or you'd be able to see the view screen at the back of the bridge. On top of that the Saratoga's bridge should have been more like the Reliant IMO.
 
What did your plot entail?

Originally, I had written a direct sequel to The Search for Spock. I had seen that film in the theater in July of 1984, was very upset by the destruction of the Enterprise, and wanted to do something about it. By the end of August, I had pounded out a 39-page single-spaced story that was a treatment rather than a full-fledged script. I was 17 at the time and quite idealistic. I tried to float the story around, but kept hearing the same thing from everyone....the studio did not accept input from fans. By the time I approached Bob Greenberger, The Voyage Home was in the can and just waiting to come out from under wraps. I thought perhaps my story could be re-worked a bit to work in the comics. But when Bob dropped the 'big hint' about what was coming in TVH, I let the whole thing go because it just wouldn't work out. With the 'Enterprise' back again, there would be no real point in bringing back the original.

The story....

Sarek could not repay Kirk for bringing Spock back by bringing Kirk's son David back. But what about Kirk's lost ship, the Enterprise? The Genesis team was not the only group doing experiments out on the edge. The Vulcans were working on a concept for atomic reassembly of matter....the reclamation of destroyed objects. Based on the idea that matter is neither created nor destroyed but only changed. (What I didn't realize at the time was that I was basically using the theory of nanotechnology. When I read about that nine years later, I was quite surprised.) Sarek convinced the Vulcan high council that there was no better, more worthy test than the Enterprise. All of her atoms were still floating around in the Mutara sector, just waiting for a reassembly test.

There was another factor, however. The Vulcans believed that to reconstitute any object that had been closely associated with living beings for quite some time, without their involvement, would be unethical. It would be like a ship without a soul. A zombie, if you will.

Enter the 'Emotional Enhancement Matrix'. Many years ago, before the Romulans split away and while the Vulcans were still very emotional, this device was invented, supposedly tested once, and then locked away. It supposedly had the ability to greatly enhance emotion, by direct neural stimulation, but its limits were unknown and it was deemed to be too dangerous for use. The modern thinking was that in a very closely-controlled and monitored situation it might have benefits. Kirk and crew, with the exception of Spock, were all human and emotional and might even be the perfect guinea pigs for a test.

Everyone boards a Vulcan science vessel for the trip to the Mutara sector. Upon arrival, they are hooked up to equipment and instructed to think back to their good thoughts about the Enterprise. For Kirk, that includes his first flyby of the completed refit when Scotty took him for a tour. (Existing footage from TMP could have been used.)

The test works and the Enterprise is reassembled from her atoms, but there is a surprise waiting for later.

Meanwhile, there are a couple of other story arcs in the mix. Another Klingon commander and crew, loyal to Kruge and very pissed off about what happened to him, set off in a cloaked ship with the intention of attacking Earth. It's not just a Bird of Prey. It's a new, top-of-the-line prototype D-10. Almost like a Klingon version of the Vengeance.

Starfleet manages to get information about the approaching threat, but as usual they are short-handed. They are forced to scurry into action to get the mothballed USS Lexington, still damaged from the M-5, into some kind of shape to meet the threat.

Kirk and crew hear about this and race back to Earth just as soon as Spock and Scotty are able to verify the integrity of the Enterprise's newly-reconstituted engines. When they arrive on the scene, the Klingons and the Lexington are in the middle of a very one-sided battle. Everyone is extremely surprised to see the Enterprise, especially the Klingons. They know that she was destroyed. It's like seeing a ghost and they don't know what to make of it. They decide to head for home, not out of cowardice but to be cagey and seek out more intelligence from spies about the matter. They have honor; fools who rush in with inadequate information do not.

The threat is ended. The surprise? Will Decker and Ilia (not V'Ger's probe version) are found to be aboard the Enterprise. They have no memory of how they got there and no one has an explanation for it. The Vulcans decide to return the EEM to permanent deep storage along with the atomic reassembly equipment. Their own Genesis-like results, with Decker and Ilia, have been much too unsettling for them to want to use the equipment again.

Quite hokey and fanboyish, I know, but what can I say....I was 17. :p
 
Originally, I had written a direct sequel to The Search for Spock. I had seen that film in the theater in July of 1984, was very upset by the destruction of the Enterprise, and wanted to do something about it. By the end of August, I had pounded out a 39-page single-spaced story that was a treatment rather than a full-fledged script. I was 17 at the time and quite idealistic. I tried to float the story around, but kept hearing the same thing from everyone....the studio did not accept input from fans. By the time I approached Bob Greenberger, The Voyage Home was in the can and just waiting to come out from under wraps. I thought perhaps my story could be re-worked a bit to work in the comics. But when Bob dropped the 'big hint' about what was coming in TVH, I let the whole thing go because it just wouldn't work out. With the 'Enterprise' back again, there would be no real point in bringing back the original.

The story....

Sarek could not repay Kirk for bringing Spock back by bringing Kirk's son David back. But what about Kirk's lost ship, the Enterprise? The Genesis team was not the only group doing experiments out on the edge. The Vulcans were working on a concept for atomic reassembly of matter....the reclamation of destroyed objects. Based on the idea that matter is neither created nor destroyed but only changed. (What I didn't realize at the time was that I was basically using the theory of nanotechnology. When I read about that nine years later, I was quite surprised.) Sarek convinced the Vulcan high council that there was no better, more worthy test than the Enterprise. All of her atoms were still floating around in the Mutara sector, just waiting for a reassembly test.

There was another factor, however. The Vulcans believed that to reconstitute any object that had been closely associated with living beings for quite some time, without their involvement, would be unethical. It would be like a ship without a soul. A zombie, if you will.

Enter the 'Emotional Enhancement Matrix'. Many years ago, before the Romulans split away and while the Vulcans were still very emotional, this device was invented, supposedly tested once, and then locked away. It supposedly had the ability to greatly enhance emotion, by direct neural stimulation, but its limits were unknown and it was deemed to be too dangerous for use. The modern thinking was that in a very closely-controlled and monitored situation it might have benefits. Kirk and crew, with the exception of Spock, were all human and emotional and might even be the perfect guinea pigs for a test.

Everyone boards a Vulcan science vessel for the trip to the Mutara sector. Upon arrival, they are hooked up to equipment and instructed to think back to their good thoughts about the Enterprise. For Kirk, that includes his first flyby of the completed refit when Scotty took him for a tour. (Existing footage from TMP could have been used.)

The test works and the Enterprise is reassembled from her atoms, but there is a surprise waiting for later.

Meanwhile, there are a couple of other story arcs in the mix. Another Klingon commander and crew, loyal to Kruge and very pissed off about what happened to him, set off in a cloaked ship with the intention of attacking Earth. It's not just a Bird of Prey. It's a new, top-of-the-line prototype D-10. Almost like a Klingon version of the Vengeance.

Starfleet manages to get information about the approaching threat, but as usual they are short-handed. They are forced to scurry into action to get the mothballed USS Lexington, still damaged from the M-5, into some kind of shape to meet the threat.

Kirk and crew hear about this and race back to Earth just as soon as Spock and Scotty are able to verify the integrity of the Enterprise's newly-reconstituted engines. When they arrive on the scene, the Klingons and the Lexington are in the middle of a very one-sided battle. Everyone is extremely surprised to see the Enterprise, especially the Klingons. They know that she was destroyed. It's like seeing a ghost and they don't know what to make of it. They decide to head for home, not out of cowardice but to be cagey and seek out more intelligence from spies about the matter. They have honor; fools who rush in with inadequate information do not.

The threat is ended. The surprise? Will Decker and Ilia (not V'Ger's probe version) are found to be aboard the Enterprise. They have no memory of how they got there and no one has an explanation for it. The Vulcans decide to return the EEM to permanent deep storage along with the atomic reassembly equipment. Their own Genesis-like results, with Decker and Ilia, have been much too unsettling for them to want to use the equipment again.

Quite hokey and fanboyish, I know, but what can I say....I was 17. :p

I'll say this, though - in the Universe where TMP is just the Phase II Pilot, and TWOK and TSFS are story arcs with a season cliffhanger splitting them.... that would be a pretty damn good way of bringing back old characters and putting a new twist on the series! ;)
 
I'll say this, though - in the Universe where TMP is just the Phase II Pilot, and TWOK and TSFS are story arcs with a season cliffhanger splitting them.... that would be a pretty damn good way of bringing back old characters and putting a new twist on the series! ;)

Thanks. :) It had its moments. This was a bit from McCoy and Kirk:

"Are you sure about all of this green-blooded mumbo-jumbo, Jim? I feel like we're trying to bring back the Enterprise by holding a damn seance!"

"Calm yourself, Doctor. Remember, this green-blooded mumbo-jumbo is what just succeeded in getting Spock back out of your head."

McCoy is momentarily taken aback, and then simply surrenders.

"Well....Now that you put it that way...."

Kirk grins and taps his forehead with his index finger.

"Another victim of....simple....Vulcan....logic."

:hugegrin:

In more recent years, I've toyed with the idea of a different scenario for bringing back the original Enterprise.

Some cadets at the academy have been studying the Bird of Prey that was recovered from San Francisco Bay and that has been on display for a number of years. They run through the tape of the Enterprise's destruction from the view that Kruge had firsthand. One of them notices something odd in the footage. They slow it down to frame-by-frame. In the external view of the Enterprise, just a few seconds before the destruct countdown reaches zero, there is a very quick winking out and winking back in again. That clue leads them to examine the records of the Bop's sensor readings for those moments....something that no one had any reason to check before. What they find is that after the winking effect, all of the sensor readings concerning the Enterprise dramatically change. Structural composition, mass, energy output....everything. And what was the winking itself? A transporter effect! In the last moments, the Enterprise was beamed away and replaced by a dummy mock-up that was only superficially identical. The real ship is being held in stasis....somewhere....by someone.

This makes use of the concept from 'That Which Survives' of beaming an entire ship.

Just might have to flesh it all out some day. :D
 
The return....

Return.jpg


:hugegrin:
 
What I always hated and wondered about was why they just turned the helm console around for the Grissom and then of course it was left that way and then used again with a repaint for the Saratoga.
We know the set could be reconfigured so why not move the stations around and give us a better looking bridge set like they did for the Reliant? The other problem with the way they did it was it could only be filmed from one direction or you'd be able to see the view screen at the back of the bridge. On top of that the Saratoga's bridge should have been more like the Reliant IMO.
I'm with you. If feels lazy. Maybe they just didn't want to spend any more money than they had to.
 
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