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Spoilers Discovery and the Novelverse - TV show discussion thread

Here's something I don't get. They say the Qo'nos system is "uncharted" but acknowledge Archer went there. How can it be uncharted if someone's been there? Also, according to Enterprise there had been plenty of Vulcan envoys sent to Qo'nos as recently as Enterprise's fourth season. So how can the system be "uncharted"?
thribs said:
The war with the Cardassians was over before TNG started. Hence O’Brien’s appearance.
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Hostilities ended during TNG's third season with the treaty being signed early fourth, not long prior to The Wounded.
 
The Wormhole said:
Here's something I don't get. They say the Qo'nos system is "uncharted" but acknowledge Archer went there. How can it be uncharted if someone's been there? Also, according to Enterprise there had been plenty of Vulcan envoys sent to Qo'nos as recently as Enterprise's fourth season. So how can the system be "uncharted"?
Click to expand...

They were referring specifically to their knowledge of the layout of Qo'noS's defense network and military installations, which could have changed massively since they last got a good look at the planet.
 
The Wormhole said:
Here's something I don't get. They say the Qo'nos system is "uncharted" but acknowledge Archer went there. How can it be uncharted if someone's been there? Also, according to Enterprise there had been plenty of Vulcan envoys sent to Qo'nos as recently as Enterprise's fourth season. So how can the system be "uncharted"?
Click to expand...

He was kind of busy and didn't have time to make a map of it.
 
The Federation was a huge place by the 24th Century, presumably with thousands of starships in service by that point, so there would've been many, many other ships available to deal with the conflict, which was mostly out on the fringes of the UFP anyhow.

The Enterprise-D was likely freed up to focus on its exploratory mission profile by these circumstances (it was originally constructed to last around 20 years in deep space with little-to-no direct Starfleet contact), and judging retroactively by the evidence in the early seasons of TNG, it was more of a brushfire war than a full-on, existential-threat, Dominion-type conflict.
 
Still, it doesn’t shout that it was a big war. More like a series of skirmishes. This Klingon one however sounds bigger in scale.
 
Sure, the Cardassian war thing can be rationalized -- I devoted some lines here and there in The Buried Age to doing just that, since it overlaps the period in question -- but it still represented a change in how the writers defined and presented the Federation. "Conspiracy" had Picard talk in his closing log entry as if he'd never had to take a life before, and "Peak Performance" presented war games as an atypical practice for Starfleet and one that was prompted by the emergence of the Borg as a potential threat.

By the same token, whatever continuity issues DSC introduces will eventually be rationalized away as well. Although setting it so close to TOS is making that pretty tricky.
 
It’s the scale of the war I have a issue with. It’s seems too large of a scale for it to be shaken off with later on.
 
thribs said:
It’s the scale of the war I have a issue with. It’s seems too large of a scale for it to be shaken off with later on.
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The Klingons have conquered/acquired one-fifth of the Federation, that leaves another four-fifths fine, it's not actually that widespread really.
 
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Leto_II said:
Tagore's history from John Ford's novel has been referenced in the modern Litverse -- Capt. Hallie Gannon in Vanguard mentions that Tagore was the Federation's first ambassador to the Empire, and also that she was his star pupil at Starfleet Academy. Was thinking that a version of it could still theoretically make it into the new show's continuity, since they've referenced the novel once already before now.
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Keep in mind DSC stated that nobody had seen Klingons in a century, and then mentioned Dontu V and the incident where Mommy and Daddy Burnham were killed.

So you could say that similarly, nobody has set foot on Kronos except all these other guys.
 
It occurred to me that there's probably room for a terminology retcon, a la how "augments" became the standard term for Khan and his fellows throughout the timeline after Enterprise established that there was a name for them. I'd probably grin a bit if there was a mention of ships going to Black Alert when they fire up their slipstream drives or are about to burrow into a Borg transwarp conduit or use some other nonstandard and exotic propulsion method. But, then, I'm a sucker for all the rare alerts. Blue Alert for landing, docking, and cloaking, Gray Mode for low-power...
 
There's a big reveal in Drastic Measures which should bring some interesting things to the novel side of STD at least.
 
So...one big possible Litverse contradiction, right near the very end of the episode:

We see the Federation HQ in Paris as being to the north/northwest of the Eiffel Tower, right across the river Seine, not at the Place de la Concorde. This would actually place the HQ in or near the 16th Arrondissement, while the Palais would have been located further to the northeast. (I was doing some photography at the Place de la Concorde this past June. Some nearby dickwad kept blasting The Chainsmokers out of a boombox at top volume while I was doing it. Very annoying.)

Unless this maybe these were some adjunct offices that Burnham, Sarek, and Amanda visited, and not necessarily the main HQ/President's residence? Like Washington, D.C., 23rd Century Paris probably has lots of governmental offices around the city, not just at the Palais. There were more words on that sign right beneath the "UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS," but CBS's streaming-resolution is so awful that even at max quality I still couldn't make out what the hell it said in the couple of shots it was visible. Then again, Sarek comes out of the building with the President's pardon right in hand, so it probably was their office.

And it looks like Emperor Georgiou is out there gallivanting around the cosmos, but also unrestored to her throne. While it seems like the Mirror Litverse is safe for the moment, there's still the upcoming Succession comic series, to say nothing of bringing Michelle Yeoh back next season or whenever, which could still complicate things for Empress Sato II. But we'll see.

And finally...wonder who they'll snag for Captain Pike and Spock next season? Should be interesting.
 
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Leto_II said:
So...one big possible Litverse contradiction, right near the very end of the episode:
Click to expand...

Given that closing shot, and given the generally fanciful visual effects this season, I think it's best not to take changes in visual detail too literally. This show is simply interpreting the look of certain things differently than previous shows did.

A couple of continuity details did strike me:
Georgiou mentions subjugating the Betazoids during her tenure. This is consistent with The Sorrows of Empire, which established that the Betazoids had been all but exterminated sometime prior to "Mirror, Mirror."

The opening shot of Earth showed that Earth Spacedock was under construction in 2257. I don't recall if any of the novels have specified when it was built. Anyway, we can confirm that it's different from the "Starbase 1" that was under Klingon occupation last week, although some tie-ins have used that name for Spacedock (which never really made sense to me, since a starbase is a support facility for deep-space operations, the equivalent of a frontier fort, while Earth Spacedock is more like an airport/hotel/mall complex in a major city).
 
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