Well, later in the corridor near her quarters the two of them were seen walking with their butts stuck out and saying in shrill voices," I want four shifts not three and I want them yesterday!"
Are the TNG Crew Kinda Mean?
- Thread starter Emperor Norton
- Start date
Well, later in the corridor near her quarters the two of them were seen walking with their butts stuck out and saying in shrill voices," I want four shifts not three and I want them yesterday!"
This is really it, in a nutshell. The episode was written that way for effect. Sure, it doesn't make much sense in real life when one commander is replaced by another, but we're talking about a TV show here. If there is ever a story vs logic conflict, story wins out nearly every time.
Must be a deleted sceneWell, later in the corridor near her quarters the two of them were seen walking with their butts stuck out and saying in shrill voices," I want four shifts not three and I want them yesterday!"
IMHO that's a misunderstanding of the scene. He is not doubting of himself, but he is hugely in doubt that anything will end this conflict nonviolently. He reflected that sentiment to Picard personally.
That is what the man who everyone put in charge expects, & it very nearly happened exactly that way. The only thing that stopped it was Jellico playing his hand exactly how he did, a method he was undoubtedly convinced was the only way to succeed, even if he personally didn't expect it to. We all doubt ourselves in some ways, but he doubts himself no more than any one I've seen, and the fact that he is tasked with carrying out a mission he (& probably some superiors) expects will fail, is enough to fill anyone with doubt about the outcome.Jellico said:
Jellico & Picard both got handed jobs that were last ditch efforts to avert a war, that I'd guess more than one administrator considered futile, even though they had to try anyhow. That Jellico pulled it off is pretty miraculous, & that is in no small part do to invaluable insight that he got from ENT crew members like Data & Geordi, who brought ideas & tactical options to the table that gave them an advantage
It wasn't just poor form for Troi to make that comment. It was reckless as an officer, because we don't know exactly the level of insight she possesses, but it's not as though she's never been wrong or been duped. So there's gray area, without question, & there must be an incredibly thin line between sensing someone who doubts themselves, vs someone who has doubts about what they are doing, even though they know it's the only thing they can do. We pick that lady's empathic abilities to death on these boards, but I'm supposed to accept she is 100% on this guy, about a discrepancy as minute as that?
Nah. I think Troi is reading him wrong, & it wouldn't be the 1st time for her. He doesn't doubt himself. His doubt is that anything can win the day without bloodshed. He said as much, out loud, & I'm highly suspicious that she's sensitive enough to make that distinction, in a person. So she can stuff her wildly reckless insightful offering.
He never said it was a bluffing game. He said it was an intimidation game. It's not as though Picard has never bluffed anyhow. They just have the luxury of having gotten to know him better, and therefore trust him. Jellico was afforded no such luxury when he was posted there, & given a mission likely to fail, with a crew, likely to disapprove of the decision to post him there. Riker thought HE should've gotten the command. Don't you think Jellico would've known that? He KNEW he was going into an antagonistic setup. His only option was to play that role, because time & mission sensitivity afforded him nothing more. No time for a honeymoon. No time to give anyone a chance. They gotta be as great as everyone says they are... Right. Now. With him instead of Picard, because that's how the chips fell... cuz Krieger waves yada yada. (A trap to deliberately lure out Picard)
Also, He didn't "Double and triple" shifts. The shift rotation alteration meant that in a day that had 3 shifts, he actually reduced the length of a shift, by adding an additional shift, so crew would be sharper during the entirety of each given shift. Where he did increase workload, was in preliminary revamping of the ship from exploration mode to wartime mode. However, he also temporarily reassigned people to aid in that load, even though he reassigned a third of Geordi's people to security (Which btw might be pretty important if you're going to war) Geordi's only complaint was in not having the time he'd ask to complete the workload. Well, no duh... Everything about this mission is time sensitive. Why wouldn't the refit of an exploration vessel to a frontline war vessel also be?
He expects them to follow orders. He expects them to suck it up & deal with demanding time tables, because #1 that's what the mission needs, & #2, that's what they're supposed to do under those circumstances. Don't blame the man handing out the orders, blame the people who made him, or blame the enemy who forced their hand at needing to do so. Jellico is not a god. He is a man in a chain of command who 's got orders, & must give orders to fulfill his.
Let's not make this the "All About Jellico" thread. There's a whole thread devoted to the character that can be resurrected for that purpose.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-captain-edward-jellico-appreciation-society-thread.284648/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-captain-edward-jellico-appreciation-society-thread.284648/
TNG crew might've been mean... until season 6, that's when Colm Meaney took his meanity to DS9.
Please people, don't
Please people, don't
That's all it takes...
And while the "Jerk Captain Temporary Replacement For One Two-Part Episode" behaves questionably, damage has already been done.
Not really because once Jean Luc and the others return, the family is back together and it's business as usual. And let's face it, the enterprise bridge crew was designed as a family, not as a formal military unit.
Not in this threadIs this the beautiful beginning of a new "Starfleet is / isn't military" debate...
Well there were a lot of incidents where both Troi and Beverly were VERY nice to some men that were on the ship!
No matter how cliquish some of the characters can be sometimes, they're still being nicer than most real life people I got to meet... -.-
Well, that's true lol
I'll also offer one last thing about any pro tem captains. At least that is a legitimate scenario where you ought to expect some resentment, cliquishness, or antagonism. In most other cases, there's no reason for it at all.
We don't even get a good reason for why Riker is a d-bag to Sam Lavelle, other than he ingratiates himself to the senior officers too much, but that's not really much of a reason to toss him attitude over an extra "Aye", & it's certainly not reason enough to pass somebody over for promotion, if they merit it. I mean at least Geordi's junior officer is slightly more explainable, plenty of humans don't warm up to Vulcans in general, especially ones that want to jam their academy training down your throat. (See also Kirk lol)
Truthfully, I wouldn't say anyone was particularly inexcusable with Ro Laren at 1st either, considering the conditions of her assignment, & her past record. I'd be more than a little concerned about someone like that being tossed on my team too, & the way she behaved more than deserves the animosity she encountered. That was the point of her character. You slowly make those personal connections over time
What I always found weird was her welcome back in Preemptive Strike. It felt very shoehorned for the sake of the story, so her betrayal would sting more. Frankly, during all that welcoming from Troi & Bev, I just kept thinking, when the hell have you two ever cared a tinker's damn about Ro Laren? Picard? Sure. Guinan? Definitely. Geordi even? I can see that too, but not those two women. In all the time Ro was on screen, I don't think I ever saw either of them share one personal moment with her, short of Troi at the end of Conundrum, & that's only because she delights in shit talking Riker, & before anyone tells me I'm being too hard on Troi, she literally gets all dressed up for Riker's birthday bash, & sits there jeering with Bev, trying to embarrass him by requesting a song she knows he still can't play. Who does that on your birthday? lol
Yeah, nicer then any of the crews that came after them, some stone cold killers in that group.
I would have loved it if they had written off Riker with a promotion, and left us with Tom and his interesting situation and dynamics for the rest of the run.
That would have been interesting. You get the same actor but a different character. I wonder if Frakes ever considered that and if so would he have pushed for it to happen. Actors are supposed to enjoy stuff like that, right?
Of course, I was a big fan of Pulaski, and wanted Picard to stay a Borg and see what the Riker/Shelby/Data trio could do. TNG needed a shake up, it needed better character dynamics and drama IMO.
I try not to engage in “this show would be better if I wrote it”-style criticism—if I really had a better idea, I should pitch it to the show, right?—but throughout the summer of ‘90 I gave a lot of thought to TNG without Picard. The idea of the crew under Riker’s command was intriguing and shaking up the dynamics would have been entertaining.
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So far, the only moments I found the main crew quite mean were : when they first worked with Barclay, and in Taspestry with alternate Picard.
Especially with Locutus as a recurring guest villain a couple times a year.... the personal connections would make for intense plots.
Tom Riker really got the shaft. He didn’t even get the promotion that really both of them earned for the Nervala 4 mission.
