TMP was the best Star Trek picture

[Valenti]

Q - How would you have made this an even better movie?

I think they got caught up in the wonder of it all and ripped off 2001 except with a lot of unnecessary scenes that should have been cut and moved along to the story. They didn't know exactly what that story was though to hang their hat on. It would have been interesting if the machine planet was Earth in their future projected by Vger into it's past through the vast imaging systems. There's a better story in there somewhere - a malfunctioning machine god. Sounds like The God Thing.

 

[ItIsGreen]

So, is it the best Star Trek film or isn't it? I'm confused.

 

[Vger23]

I think it's great just the way it is.

 

[Valenti]

Well it upholds the tenets of what made Star Trek great but it didn't have any personal stakes. So it's a little like a frame without a picture per say. I know where nomad has gone before but they should have introduced Q right there and then or something and explained him somehow relating to Vger, his 'so called' journey and the race from 'in Thy Image' called the Wan that worshipped him and the memories stored in it that were data patterns.

 

[Pauln6]

I like it conceptually and visually. The Enterprise never looked better. Spock's emotional voyage was well told.

For me personally, though, it needed to give the supporting cast an extra moment each, or a scene together where some of the old camaraderie shines through. You had shades of it with Scotty in the shuttle pod, Uhura with the Rhandarite, and Kirk winking at Chekov but it just needed some more personal dialogue to flesh them out again. Another scene with Rand and Sulu in the botany lab would have been great!

I would have liked a proper away mission, maybe to head after Spock in a shuttle to give some of the extras a chance off ship, maybe even a weird trippy encounter with the stored Klingon vessels - something akin to the Tholian Web.

Ultimately though, you couldn't depart too far from the premise in what was already quite a long movie.

 

[Firebird]

Spock's emotional voyage was well told.

I think that's my main problem with TMP - Spock is really the only character that gets a complete arc. Kirk never gets any sort of resolution to his obsession over getting the Enterprise back, and it really should've dovetailed with Spock's arc. For instance, once Kirk saw what Spock's obsession with connecting with V'ger drove him to, nearly killing him, that should've been the impetus for Kirk to realize his obsession for the ship could get everyone killed. Decker was a non-starter of a character, as well. He and Kirk should've had a few more scenes of them butting heads, which would've enhanced Kirk's arc, too.

All of the supporting characters really have nothing to do and don't help drive the action, everyone is passive and just sits at their stations for most of the movie - only Spock actively makes the choice to go meld with V'ger. Kirk is a mainly a reactive character after he gets command of the Enterprise, which is unlike the Kirk we knew in TOS. He's not actively driving the plot until the third act. Even then, he gets undercut by Decker's deciding to key the final Voyager transmission sequence.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

TMP is certainly the most cerebral of the Trek films, with emphasis placed on the mystery and discovery aspect rather than lots of pew-pew space battles or Kirk-Fu fight sequences, so it definitely stands out from the rest in that regard. As I've gotten older I've come to appreciate it more, though I wouldn't say it's my favourite (light-years better than the likes of TFF, Nemesis and all three NuTrek combined).

If it were up to me and I could only make one change, it would be in the scene when the V'Ger probe appears on the bridge, Ilia wouldn't get between it and Spock meaning that he is the one abducted. When Spock-Probe returns to the ship to learn about the carbon-based units, it is Kirk and McCoy who try to re-establish their connection to him (a connection we've spent three years watching at the core of the show, with history and backstory we know and can relate too). When the reach the core of V'Ger and it looks to reconnect with The Creator, it is Kirk that patches up the circuit, wanting to spend his life with his friend and explore the galaxy in a way he had never thought possible, away from the bureaucracy and paper-pushing and embrace a new existence. Decker leads the ship out of harms way and resumes his rightful place once more as it's Captain.

 

[Maurice]

What Firebird says about Kirk is pretty much exactly what I've said for years as regards his arc petering out. I don't think Spock being turned into the probe would work, though, because turning Spock into a machine doesn't offer the actor much to do, and Nimoy would rightly have balked at it. I always felt Kirk should be the one who says "Let's find out" but is rejected by the Ilia Probe, at which point Decker has to step up and does so because he's realized he can't lose Ilia again and Kirk is the right man to run the Enterprise.

As to the rest of the cast, showing them being active in trying to solve the problem is all it would have taken. Once V'ger understands the linguacode there's not a peep about Uhura trying to make contact. Everyone should have been trying things right down to the wire, not just sitting around waiting for Decker to make progress with the probe.

 

[Firebird]

As to the rest of the cast, showing them being active in trying to solve the problem is all it would have taken. Once V'ger understands the linguacode there's not a peep about Uhura trying to make contact. Everyone should have been trying things right down to the wire, not just sitting around waiting for Decker to make progress with the probe.

This, exactly. Uhura should've been given about half of Spock's lines regarding the linguacode messages and V'ger's message being sent at such a high rate of speed. I get they wanna give Nimoy more screen time and more things to do, but some of what Spock is saying/doing is what the chief communications officer should be doing.

I tried to address a lot of these character concerns when I did a pass at the final shooting script as a writing exercise last year (shameless promotion, I know): https://www.scribd.com/document/356105331/Star-Trek-I-The-Motion-Picture-Redraft-Preview
I think I need to go back and work on the final scene with Decker keying in the code to make it play like Maurice suggested.

 

[Galileo7]

Yes, TMP was the best Star Trek film.
I would probably have it that at least one of the Klingon K'T'inga's survived it's earlier encounter with V'Ger and , like Kirk's Enterprise 1701-Refit, is inside the massive V'Ger spaceship where they encounter each other, misunderstanding leads to an exchange of phaser bank firing, but ultimately they attempt to work together to solve the V'Ger threat...

 

[Smellmet]

Yes, TMP was the best Star Trek film.
I would probably have it that at least one of the Klingon K'T'inga's survived it's earlier encounter with V'Ger and , like Kirk's Enterprise 1701-Refit, is inside the massive V'Ger spaceship were they encounter each other, misunderstanding leads to an exchange of phaser bank firing, but ultimately they attempt to work together to solve the V'Ger threat...

This is exactly what I was going to post. It would have given the movie some much needed action in the middle act and I think would elevate the film in a lot of people's eyes, there would certainly be nobody calling it 'the motionless picture'

As it stands it's a flawed masterpiece in my view. My joint favourite Trek movie alongside TWOK.

 

[BillJ]

Don't change a thing.

 

[Valenti]

Didn't they (Gene) want Q to be a computer virus? It would have been interesting if he was in it somehow. He could have merged with Ilea leaving Decker.

 

[Maurice]

Yes, TMP was the best Star Trek film.
I would probably have it that at least one of the Klingon K'T'inga's survived it's earlier encounter with V'Ger and , like Kirk's Enterprise 1701-Refit, is inside the massive V'Ger spaceship were they encounter each other, misunderstanding leads to an exchange of phaser bank firing, but ultimately they attempt to work together to solve the V'Ger threat...

When faced with a godlike entity that threatens a whole planet some starship pew pew is not going to add anything to the story but time. There was plenty of tension built into the story, the execution just failed it.

 

[Galileo7]

Don't change a thing.

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Absolutely agree, TMP is still my favorite as is.

I just thought of the Klingon K'T'inga interaction with Kirk's 1701-Refit inside V'Ger would have been an interesting addition like Kirk's 1701 and the Klingon D-7 in TAS "Time Trap" inside the Delta Triangle.

 

[Maurice]

^^^From a narrative standpoint it would just be a distraction.

 

[Galileo7]

When faced with a godlike entity that threatens a whole planet some starship pew pew is not going to add anything to the story but time. There was plenty of tension built into the story, the execution just failed it.

^^^From a narrative standpoint it would just be a distraction.

True, I understand what you are stating. Simply, I just wanted to see much more of the K'T'inga in TMP. The WOK Enterprise simulator and later extremely limited K'T'inga interaction with the 1701-A in TUC was all we ever saw. The Klingon BoP usurped the K'T'inga usage in SFS, TVH, TFF and TUC[General Chang].

 

[BillJ]

True, I understand what you are stating. Simply, I just wanted to see much more of the K'T'inga in TMP. The WOK Enterprise simulator and later extremely limited K'T'inga interaction with the 1701-A in TUC was all we ever saw. The Klingon BoP usurped the K'T'inga usage in SFS, TVH, TFF and TUC[General Chang].

Don't forget the reuse in "Heart of Glory" from the first season of TNG, and "Emissary" from the second!

 

[Galileo7]

Don't forget the reuse in "Heart of Glory" from the first season of TNG, and "Emissary" from the second!

Right.

But, the 1701-Refit vs. the K'T'inga never got the screen time together that they should have.

 

[BillJ]

Right.

But, the 1701-Refit vs. the K'T'inga never got the screen time together that they should have.

I wonder if it was the TMP model they used in the Voyager episode ("Prophecy") with the Klingons?