USS SHENZHOU: 423m
USS DISCOVERY: 750.5m
From the Eaglemoss Starships model/magazine set.
USS DISCOVERY: 750.5m
From the Eaglemoss Starships model/magazine set.
Discovery starship discussion [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Cpt. Kyle Amasov
- Start date
We need a new facepalm gif. Or a button for a facepalm gif.
I've actually grown to like the Crossfield-class design overall, but GADS doe the size make the whole thing totally incongruous. At this point seeing her next to a Connie would make BOTH designs look wrong.
Mark
I've actually grown to like the Crossfield-class design overall, but GADS doe the size make the whole thing totally incongruous. At this point seeing her next to a Connie would make BOTH designs look wrong.
Mark
I'd suggest at least five decks tall. The other two dimensions of the compartment, I hesitate to guess at the moment.
Source: http://www.cap-that.com/startrek/discovery/103/?page=3
Source: http://www.cap-that.com/startrek/discovery/103/?page=3
It's tiny compared to the suggested exterior scale, really.
So, "Despite Yourself"... Spoilers ahoy.
So far, not a particularly novel take on the, uh, milieu. But there's more to come.
Timo Saloniemi
So, "Despite Yourself"... Spoilers ahoy.
Technical stuff:
- They wanted to reach SB 46, and Lorca calls the location "near Organia". So how come SB 46 never came up in "Errand of Mercy"? Huh? Huh?
- Vulcan "cruiser" is just their runabout? Of course, that's valid alternate usage, already heard in Trek (the Aurora) - but does this mean Cornwell's unseen "cruiser" was of this size, too?
- Workbees have TNG style "immobile-trackball" controls, yay! And lasers instead of phasers for cutting. So Tyler just chose the best tools for the job in two universes...
- Isiks make a return - we already got darseks earlier on, didn't we?
- Nifty repainting bots; perhaps malfunctions of those account for some 75% of registry oddities in Star Trek?
- The Defiant! And she's Constitution class, NCC-1764, but not shaped like the ship seen in TOS and ENT. Not utterly differently, either, though - a refit ought to straighten out that silly kink in the pylons within the next ten years. No idea on the scale of the vessel yet.
- The Discovery can scan for the ISS Shenzhou and other ships at considerable distance. Wouldn't the Empire in turn scan for the Discovery and wonder about her hanging around for even longer than her silly cover story allows for? And wouldn't they know she's not been searching any asteroids for any random long-lost captains and fugitives?
- Holomirrors return. As do ship-to-ship full-body holocomms.
- Connor returns. Driving like a madman. They can warp into debris fields now, without adding to those?
- They refit the transporters, but don't get rid of all the old stuff. Fancy, and extra work for the set redecorators.
- Turbolifts really do need their own personal inertia mooters in working condition...
Not so technical plot stuff:
- Lorca really didn't send over any of the anti-cloaking stuff before jumping home. Not cool.
- Culber vs. Stamets vs. Lorca... All we suspected was true, and they're acting against protocol but there is another doctor aboard for doing it right. Cool. (Did they page a "commander" during that scene by coincidence only? We don't see the rank of the blonde woman who takes over.)
- Culber vs. Tyler... It was all true as well. They did scan Tyler for everything when he came aboard, except for things they had every in-universe right to miss. Cool, and a problem solved at the snap of- (But where was Security? Wouldn't Stamets already warrant some?)
- Odd for the Vulcans to approach without firing, and to wait until Lorca raised shields. But perhaps the Discovery swhicharoo messed up everybody's sensors for a while?
- Lorca lampshades "destiny". Combined with 2009, it's probably one of the Trek phenomena the Vulcan Science Academy solidly disbelieves in.
- Stamets has "moments of clarity", literally. Much like Gary Mitchell...
- Tyler suffers, along with amnesia, from "tardiness". Cute choice, considering.
- The Mirror Universe does have guards crewing the brig! Long live the Empire.
- They wanted to reach SB 46, and Lorca calls the location "near Organia". So how come SB 46 never came up in "Errand of Mercy"? Huh? Huh?
- Vulcan "cruiser" is just their runabout? Of course, that's valid alternate usage, already heard in Trek (the Aurora) - but does this mean Cornwell's unseen "cruiser" was of this size, too?
- Workbees have TNG style "immobile-trackball" controls, yay! And lasers instead of phasers for cutting. So Tyler just chose the best tools for the job in two universes...
- Isiks make a return - we already got darseks earlier on, didn't we?
- Nifty repainting bots; perhaps malfunctions of those account for some 75% of registry oddities in Star Trek?
- The Defiant! And she's Constitution class, NCC-1764, but not shaped like the ship seen in TOS and ENT. Not utterly differently, either, though - a refit ought to straighten out that silly kink in the pylons within the next ten years. No idea on the scale of the vessel yet.
- The Discovery can scan for the ISS Shenzhou and other ships at considerable distance. Wouldn't the Empire in turn scan for the Discovery and wonder about her hanging around for even longer than her silly cover story allows for? And wouldn't they know she's not been searching any asteroids for any random long-lost captains and fugitives?
- Holomirrors return. As do ship-to-ship full-body holocomms.
- Connor returns. Driving like a madman. They can warp into debris fields now, without adding to those?
- They refit the transporters, but don't get rid of all the old stuff. Fancy, and extra work for the set redecorators.
- Turbolifts really do need their own personal inertia mooters in working condition...
Not so technical plot stuff:
- Lorca really didn't send over any of the anti-cloaking stuff before jumping home. Not cool.
- Culber vs. Stamets vs. Lorca... All we suspected was true, and they're acting against protocol but there is another doctor aboard for doing it right. Cool. (Did they page a "commander" during that scene by coincidence only? We don't see the rank of the blonde woman who takes over.)
- Culber vs. Tyler... It was all true as well. They did scan Tyler for everything when he came aboard, except for things they had every in-universe right to miss. Cool, and a problem solved at the snap of- (But where was Security? Wouldn't Stamets already warrant some?)
- Odd for the Vulcans to approach without firing, and to wait until Lorca raised shields. But perhaps the Discovery swhicharoo messed up everybody's sensors for a while?
- Lorca lampshades "destiny". Combined with 2009, it's probably one of the Trek phenomena the Vulcan Science Academy solidly disbelieves in.
- Stamets has "moments of clarity", literally. Much like Gary Mitchell...
- Tyler suffers, along with amnesia, from "tardiness". Cute choice, considering.
- The Mirror Universe does have guards crewing the brig! Long live the Empire.
So far, not a particularly novel take on the, uh, milieu. But there's more to come.
Timo Saloniemi
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Disco seems to be 75% drive, and the size fits. I've never understood why everyone is so occupied about lengths, It's about internal used volume, it's about function. An aircraft carrier isn't bigger than a cruiser because it looks cooler, but because it serves a different purpose. I'd say it even makes sense that more advanced ships are *smaller*, not bigger. And can we please cut out that JJPrise monstrosity? You can have her at 300 meters, which was the intended design size until Abrams got his Star Wars erection and decided "bigger is always better", even if it makes no sense.
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"Despite Yourself" (Spoilers, but I guess that should be obvious)
-U.S.S. Cooper mentioned, but not seen
- The one thing I loved the most was the tiny workbee turning the U into an I on the ships hull. I'm with Timo here, it explains all registry and name errors. Especially if they do it by hand (honestly, we can't expect that a 24th century dockworker can spell Zhukov or Brattain or Aries or remember to put the right number on the right ship.
)
- About the Defiant: The ship is 100 years old by this time, even older if we count the fact that she was in service way before TOS. It only seems logical that they refit her. And the image is from the Klingon database. So it must be a recent image, after a refit. No issues here. They probably don't let her serve along the rest of the fleet. Maybe it's the Emperor's private flagship, so they keep the U.S.S.
- Lorca mentions that the Defiant (their Prime universe Defiant) is on partol. That means that she's already in service at this time, 10 years before TOS. Some nice perspective on the age of the Connie.
- The implication is that the whole carnage was caused by Discovery. I wonder how they upgraded her. And I really wonder what she's up to in the Prime universe while our Disco is trapped in the MU. No wonder Starfleet kept the whole Discovery mess a secret...
- Speaking of the Emperor, I'd love to see Empress Hoshi Sato again. Who else could be a candidate for the Emperor of this era? Georgiu? Makes you wonder... maybe they are related? Georgiu could be Hoshi's daughter or granddaughter. Also in the Prime universe, of course. Or they go for old-age Hoshi, Palpatine-style.
- Love the mirror uniforms, and this episode is some heavy continuity porn, from the Defiant to all the little mirror details to the fact that the Vulcans and Andorians team up with the Klingons, which is forshadowing the downfall of the Empire and the rise of the Klingon/Cardassian alliance.
- The crew turning Dico into Mirror-Disco, Culber, the Tyler reveal, the turbolift fight... so many great moments in this episode. And Lorca ending up in the agony booth. And Jonathan Frakes directed this like a feature film. It felt like First Contact, part 2 at times. I really really hope they bring him back to direct more episodes.
- Also, some nice hints that make me think Lorca is Mirror Lorca. MU Lorca killed MU Burnham (maybe he's one of the good guys, working with the rebels?), switched over to Prime timeline, took Lorca's place. The whole Defiant thing was kind of quick, but as a MU resident he'd be aware of that and could have pointed them into the right direction when they went over the data.
- The Tribble is back!
-U.S.S. Cooper mentioned, but not seen
- The one thing I loved the most was the tiny workbee turning the U into an I on the ships hull. I'm with Timo here, it explains all registry and name errors. Especially if they do it by hand (honestly, we can't expect that a 24th century dockworker can spell Zhukov or Brattain or Aries or remember to put the right number on the right ship.
)- About the Defiant: The ship is 100 years old by this time, even older if we count the fact that she was in service way before TOS. It only seems logical that they refit her. And the image is from the Klingon database. So it must be a recent image, after a refit. No issues here. They probably don't let her serve along the rest of the fleet. Maybe it's the Emperor's private flagship, so they keep the U.S.S.
- Lorca mentions that the Defiant (their Prime universe Defiant) is on partol. That means that she's already in service at this time, 10 years before TOS. Some nice perspective on the age of the Connie.
- The implication is that the whole carnage was caused by Discovery. I wonder how they upgraded her. And I really wonder what she's up to in the Prime universe while our Disco is trapped in the MU. No wonder Starfleet kept the whole Discovery mess a secret...
- Speaking of the Emperor, I'd love to see Empress Hoshi Sato again. Who else could be a candidate for the Emperor of this era? Georgiu? Makes you wonder... maybe they are related? Georgiu could be Hoshi's daughter or granddaughter. Also in the Prime universe, of course. Or they go for old-age Hoshi, Palpatine-style.
- Love the mirror uniforms, and this episode is some heavy continuity porn, from the Defiant to all the little mirror details to the fact that the Vulcans and Andorians team up with the Klingons, which is forshadowing the downfall of the Empire and the rise of the Klingon/Cardassian alliance.
- The crew turning Dico into Mirror-Disco, Culber, the Tyler reveal, the turbolift fight... so many great moments in this episode. And Lorca ending up in the agony booth. And Jonathan Frakes directed this like a feature film. It felt like First Contact, part 2 at times. I really really hope they bring him back to direct more episodes.
- Also, some nice hints that make me think Lorca is Mirror Lorca. MU Lorca killed MU Burnham (maybe he's one of the good guys, working with the rebels?), switched over to Prime timeline, took Lorca's place. The whole Defiant thing was kind of quick, but as a MU resident he'd be aware of that and could have pointed them into the right direction when they went over the data.
- The Tribble is back!
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It's obvious they'd have to bend the pylons of the Defiant - nothing in the MU is straight!
What technical easter eggs or callbacks did we get? The name of the asteroid belt where they "found" the pair eluded me, as did the number of the patrol Sector of the Defiant - anything of relevance there?
Also, the two ships aligned before the Shenzhou warped away to Earth. Did the Discovery eventually warp, too? Or was she left behind in Plot Complication X?
So many hints that Lorca would be native to the MU. Then again, Lorca gave us a dozen hints that he knows Tyler is fake/a Klingon, when he really didn't. It's probably the writers toying with us, rather than the characters. (I mean, yes, they are toying with the characters, too, and breaking some of their toys in the process. But all that "You fight like a Klingon, and aren't really from Seattle" stuff was red herrings in taco sauce. ...Or was it?)
Timo Saloniemi
What technical easter eggs or callbacks did we get? The name of the asteroid belt where they "found" the pair eluded me, as did the number of the patrol Sector of the Defiant - anything of relevance there?
Also, the two ships aligned before the Shenzhou warped away to Earth. Did the Discovery eventually warp, too? Or was she left behind in Plot Complication X?
So many hints that Lorca would be native to the MU. Then again, Lorca gave us a dozen hints that he knows Tyler is fake/a Klingon, when he really didn't. It's probably the writers toying with us, rather than the characters. (I mean, yes, they are toying with the characters, too, and breaking some of their toys in the process. But all that "You fight like a Klingon, and aren't really from Seattle" stuff was red herrings in taco sauce. ...Or was it?)
Timo Saloniemi
Some more details:
- Lorca is surprised by the appearance of the Cooper, she's supposed to be undergoing a refit. Captain Sponeman.
- They use the name "worker bee" to refer to the...uh... worker bee.
- The Vulcan data core fits with Disco's computers because they have a 'universal interface'. Sounds like some sort of advanced USB port. It works by placing the blue pyramid on the PADD. I assume the ship does not run on a MacOS then?
- they also refer to mirror Disco as 'mirror' - has any other MU episode ever directly referred to the parallel universe as 'mirror universe'?
- Accoring to the crew manifest, Tilly went to "Imperial Starfleet Academy". It also lists some places, but I can't quite make it out (neither the places nor the reason they are listed). Might be places she helped occupy (see below)
- "Chief Engineer" Lorca doing the scottish accent. Loved it.
- Crestian flu. Tilly got captain by stabbing the captain who was recovering from it. Nicknames: "The Slayer of Son'a Prime", "The Witch of Wurna Minor", "Captain Killy" (Saru stole that scene).
- Mirror Lorca comamnded the Buran, Mirror Burnham the Shenzhou. Shenzhou destroyed Buran when Lorca tried to overthrow the Empire. Connor, the con officer who died in the pilot, is now captain of Shenzhou.
- Lorca finds the info on Defiant on the database.
- Defiant was patroling sector 6 at the time of the episode.
- Asteriod belts of Porathia
- Agony booths on the Shenzhou are on deck 8, I think. Deck number is written over the door when they enter.
- Lorca is surprised by the appearance of the Cooper, she's supposed to be undergoing a refit. Captain Sponeman.
- They use the name "worker bee" to refer to the...uh... worker bee.
- The Vulcan data core fits with Disco's computers because they have a 'universal interface'. Sounds like some sort of advanced USB port. It works by placing the blue pyramid on the PADD. I assume the ship does not run on a MacOS then?
- they also refer to mirror Disco as 'mirror' - has any other MU episode ever directly referred to the parallel universe as 'mirror universe'?
- Accoring to the crew manifest, Tilly went to "Imperial Starfleet Academy". It also lists some places, but I can't quite make it out (neither the places nor the reason they are listed). Might be places she helped occupy (see below)
- "Chief Engineer" Lorca doing the scottish accent. Loved it.
- Crestian flu. Tilly got captain by stabbing the captain who was recovering from it. Nicknames: "The Slayer of Son'a Prime", "The Witch of Wurna Minor", "Captain Killy" (Saru stole that scene).
- Mirror Lorca comamnded the Buran, Mirror Burnham the Shenzhou. Shenzhou destroyed Buran when Lorca tried to overthrow the Empire. Connor, the con officer who died in the pilot, is now captain of Shenzhou.
- Lorca finds the info on Defiant on the database.
- Defiant was patroling sector 6 at the time of the episode.
- Asteriod belts of Porathia
- Agony booths on the Shenzhou are on deck 8, I think. Deck number is written over the door when they enter.
Connor can't catch a break can he?
Loved the surprising mention of the Defiant - no problems with that wire frame, I can assume Empress Sato was happy to make her flagship even more deadly as time went on. Looked like she still had round nacelles. I feel like we're getting closer to seeing a Connie on screen.
Can we assume the ISS Discovery also had a spore drive?
Loved the surprising mention of the Defiant - no problems with that wire frame, I can assume Empress Sato was happy to make her flagship even more deadly as time went on. Looked like she still had round nacelles. I feel like we're getting closer to seeing a Connie on screen.
Can we assume the ISS Discovery also had a spore drive?
I don't think we can. I mean, why should she?
What this means for our interpretations of the USS version is unclear. The ISS being spore-incapable might suggest that the design as such isn't spore-specific; the ISS being the preferred ship of a mighty destroyer of worlds might suggest the USS is in fact a repurposed warship, perhaps an outdated model in our more advanced reality.
But the MU has things that really shouldn't be there (things no doubt "fated" to be there), and it's up to us to think of rationales for those; a rationale might account for the USS not being a warship and indeed being a spore-specific design. I mean, Tilly flying NCC-1031 might mean squat when Burnham, supposedly important to the Emperor, has to settle to flying the ancient NCC-1227.
Timo Saloniemi
What this means for our interpretations of the USS version is unclear. The ISS being spore-incapable might suggest that the design as such isn't spore-specific; the ISS being the preferred ship of a mighty destroyer of worlds might suggest the USS is in fact a repurposed warship, perhaps an outdated model in our more advanced reality.
But the MU has things that really shouldn't be there (things no doubt "fated" to be there), and it's up to us to think of rationales for those; a rationale might account for the USS not being a warship and indeed being a spore-specific design. I mean, Tilly flying NCC-1031 might mean squat when Burnham, supposedly important to the Emperor, has to settle to flying the ancient NCC-1227.
Timo Saloniemi
My first thought was that she wouldn't have a spore drive, but then again she exchanged places with our Discovery - perhaps they did indeed have a drive and Captain Killy was working with Mirror Stamets to get it working? Did they make a jump at the same time? The original crossover was caused by the Enterprises beaming up the same people from the same planet through the same ion storm.
Lorca (who seems likely to be from the mirror universe) appeared to have a deeper knowledge of the mycelium network than he perhaps should have. And how did he get into our universe originally?
Lorca (who seems likely to be from the mirror universe) appeared to have a deeper knowledge of the mycelium network than he perhaps should have. And how did he get into our universe originally?
Well, assuming he is (and I'm not fully convinced), it wouldn't surprise me it was by some mycelium-related means, BUT he / his mirror-counterpart was still Captain of the Buran... Unless THAT ship was also part of the DASH project. Still, we're basically up to what, four different ways to Hollyhop from one univese to another? There are certainly more than a couple ways to skin this cat.
There's SO DARN MUCH to unpack from this episode! It'll take a while for me to get through a second viewing.
Mark
There's SO DARN MUCH to unpack from this episode! It'll take a while for me to get through a second viewing.
Mark
How many continuity/Canon violations?
None, as far as I can see. Why would you think there are any? At least nothing as stupid as DS9's "they don't have cloaking devices" when they clearly had cloaking devices before that episode and again during ENT, 200 years earlier. Whoever does DSC's fact checking does quite a good job.
Well, not really - it's more a case of maintaining the tradition of the MU always being slightly different.
Just ten years from now, as well as a century prior to these events, the Terran Empire employs alien slaves at conspicuously high places, including Vulcans. In the 2250s, though, there is this curious brief period where 1) every bridge officer is actually human, on two starships so far but probably counting, and 2) the heroes (exceptionally well versed in MU matters, from a comprehensive database they read) think the Empire is utterly xenophobic, which 3) seems justified as Vulcans rebel against them!
That's simply par for the course, though. The MU any given set of heroes is going to meet is tailored for that specific set of heroes: they meet either themselves, or then holes of their own exact size and shape, in that other reality where other parameters are allowed to vary.
How much we worry about those parameters can vary, too. We could, say, excuse the lack of more exposing female clothing (again sandwiched between two periods where navels were very much a thing) by the whims of the tyrant, though. Perhaps Empress Hoshi III forbade midriff out of fear of competition, and the tradition still lingers even though people seem to think the current faceless leader is male?
Timo Saloniemi
Just ten years from now, as well as a century prior to these events, the Terran Empire employs alien slaves at conspicuously high places, including Vulcans. In the 2250s, though, there is this curious brief period where 1) every bridge officer is actually human, on two starships so far but probably counting, and 2) the heroes (exceptionally well versed in MU matters, from a comprehensive database they read) think the Empire is utterly xenophobic, which 3) seems justified as Vulcans rebel against them!
That's simply par for the course, though. The MU any given set of heroes is going to meet is tailored for that specific set of heroes: they meet either themselves, or then holes of their own exact size and shape, in that other reality where other parameters are allowed to vary.
How much we worry about those parameters can vary, too. We could, say, excuse the lack of more exposing female clothing (again sandwiched between two periods where navels were very much a thing) by the whims of the tyrant, though. Perhaps Empress Hoshi III forbade midriff out of fear of competition, and the tradition still lingers even though people seem to think the current faceless leader is male?
Timo Saloniemi
It’s the Mirror Universe of the Discoverse. There’s no canon violation here whatsoever, they can do whatever the hell they want.
Why create multiple MUswhen one will fit fairly well?
Trends come and go, particularly with Imperial systems dominated by one central personailty - look at America under Trump for an example of how policy can shift radically even in a democratic system, with Obama-era latitudes reversed.
It's not a push to say that perhaps Empress Hoshi (or whoever succeeded her) was xenophobic - in fact, if it does turn out to be Georgiou then it makes sense - OUR Georgiou was the paragon of Federation openness to other races, even wishing to negotiate with the Klingons over Burnham's warnings, so MU Georgiou could be a "can't trust any alien" type.
If she's overthrown as part of these eps, her successor might be more open to allowing aliens to serve. As was whoever ruled during the time before Hoshi stole the Defiant.
It's not a push to say that perhaps Empress Hoshi (or whoever succeeded her) was xenophobic - in fact, if it does turn out to be Georgiou then it makes sense - OUR Georgiou was the paragon of Federation openness to other races, even wishing to negotiate with the Klingons over Burnham's warnings, so MU Georgiou could be a "can't trust any alien" type.
If she's overthrown as part of these eps, her successor might be more open to allowing aliens to serve. As was whoever ruled during the time before Hoshi stole the Defiant.