Spoilers Spider-Man: Homecoming-- Grading and Discussion

In this case, it seems to be Spidey fans who hate that he exists with other heroes at all. Spidey and the X-Men seem to have these fans who hate the existence of any other Marvel characters.

 

Personally I wouldn't go that far exactly, but I do generally think that the X-Men as a concept always made more sense as it's own separate thing. Spidey on the other hand is probably one of the few Marvel single characters who probably *could* thrive as a solo property, but I rather think he adds a lot as a part of the larger Marvel universe, and visa-versa.

 

I keep hearing this, and it just sounds...lazy.

Yeah. But I think in this particular case it's because we've had two film series before where he WAS the only hero and fans of those movies don't like that he's not on his own anymore.

 

I think it is a matter of other character motivations in a world where a certain percentage with have a super powered genetic mutation nobody cares if Peter Parker was bitten by a spider, they will just assume that he is a mutant. Being among the first characters his origin was important. Given a world where Tony Stark could wave off a origin because like the rest of the MCU he would assume that Aunt May gave him a fish oil tablet before the product recall takes away the movie universe where he is all so very special and just another, secret in his case assumed enhanced Inhuman.

Being in a larger universe opens up things like not needing to origin every villain, he's a bad mutant/Inhuman/alien is all that is needed. With Peter in the MCU I would like to see Kraven The Hunter as a Watchdog who is assuming he is after a high value Inhuman, instead of just a hunter crossing the line and going after humans.

 

Yeah, Peter in the MCU means we won't have to deal with all the contrivances we got in the earlier movies to try and tie Peter to EVERY villain in some personal way. There's more options now.

 

Maybe. Simpler, certainly.
Look at it this way: how does the core concept of the X-Men benefit from sharing a world with the likes of The Avengers, Ghost Rider, The Inhumans, The Fantastic Four, The Runaways and Jessica Jones? How much does this sort of thing directly clash with the "us vs. them" narrative that's at it's very core?

I'm not saying it *shouldn't* be a part of the larger Marvel universe or it *couldn't* be, just that it seems to me that being it's own thing is the optimal scenario.

I'm sure they'll learn to cope eventually.

 

Because it reflects real racism and prejudice better. In real life, there are always minorities that get it worse than others and always some who aren't as good at co-existing than others for one reason or another. The X-Men having a harder time co-existing while others have it easier is worth exploring.

It doesn't, the Mutants just need to accept they're just one facet in a Universe full of tons of weird stuff and maybe they need to change the way they do things in order to find acceptance. This is a two-way street and the X-Men are infamously bad at their job of co-existence. This is mainly due to Xavier's incompetence, of course.

The X-Men's greatest weakness has always been their inability to run a good PR campaign. And the one time they really tried Cameron Hodge was running it. Still...

- Let's not forget all those years the X-Men hid out in their mansion going "No mutants here." Meanwhile Wanda and Pietro were in the Avengers a public group, publicly being mutants, and saving the world, and doing what they could to help people understand that mutants weren't all evil. Meanwhile to the public the X-Men were mutant assholes who go and fight other mutant assholes, get butthurt nobody automatically knew they were supposed to be the good guys. And then have the temerity to keep blaming the ones who were on the Avengers for how they didn't do enough or are race traitors after spending decades hamstringing their attempts to show the public that mutants are actually pretty cool dudes.

-Oh and the treatment of Wanda, they're hypocrites. Hey Look Jean's not the crazy Phoenix anymore, lets welcome her back and protect her! Uggh that Wanda did something mildly less genocidal, we hate her. Oh and don't care about it being the Phoenix not Jean, it was acting with Jean's memories and emotions, so yes, if it had been Jean, she'd still have eaten the sun of an inhabited star system, killing billions. And with far less reason to be mentally unstable than Wanda had.

-And finally again, publish your manifesto and goals to the public!. Magneto at least always announced who he was and why he was doing things. You just show up in masks and start shooting and being all secretive. If a bunch of guys dressed like cowboys start robbing someones house and some other group dressed like cowboys shows up to fight them, people aren't going to think "Oh this second group of cowboys must be here to save me!" They'll think "Why am I stuck in between these cowboy assholes!"

 

I miss that.

 

What, a bunch of random contrivances to tie Peter to every villain?

 

Oh God. Really?

By the way, I'm surprised that Spider-man did not attract the attention of the government or Thaddeus Ross before Tony had issued the invitation to join the Avengers. Especially after his prevention of that bank robbery, the Washington Monument incident and the ferryboat incident.

 

I think you've got your timeline mixed up, all of that stuff happened after Civil War.

 

He wasn't officially invited to become an Avenger until the end of Homecoming though.

 

But he was officially working together/training with Tony Stark already before then. Surely any necessary paperwork to satisfy the Accords was done already before the airport scene, so Ross already knew about him before any of that stuff happened. If any of it were to 'attract attention', it would be in the form of Ross or someone else calling up Tony and asking what's up.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure anybody concerned with enhanced individuals probably would have become aware of him as soon Tony Stark brought him into the events of Civil War.

 

Very late to the game - just watched the movie this morning thanks to pay-per-view. I think this was probably one of the best comic book movies I’ve seen to date. Near perfect blend of humor, characters and action. I’m probably going to get the Blu-ray of this one for the video library.

Q2

 

Has this been confirmed? If not, then I can't accept it.

 

Its confirmed that Tony openly brought him into the situation while he was acting directly on Ross' orders, provided him with advanced technology and took responsibility for his development as a hero (while also actively encouraging him to continue his neighborhood patrols). Now, maybe Tony had enough influence to keep Peter's name out of any official records (assuming he would even try), but its blatantly ridiculous to claim that Ross never noticed the Spiderman at the airport, let alone in the following six the months. There is no logical reason whatsoever to assume Peter is an unregistered hero in hiding from the govt.

 

Even *if* Tony didn't say anything to Ross, Rhody is still a serving USAF officer and he'd probably have to file a full mission report as soon as he was able. Given he supports registration I can't see him making an exception. Would be more than a little hypocritical, no?

Leaving that aside, Spider-man is hardly low-key. He swings around in broad daylight, grabbing purse snatchers and giving old ladies directions. If he weren't registered he'd have half the NYPD chasing after him, to say nothing of whatever agencies are filling the void S.H.I.E.L.D. left behind (yes I know there's the rebooted S.H.I.E.L.D. on AoS, but I think it's safe to say the movie people aren't really paying any attention to that.)

 

Some people just need to be spoon fed all the (irrelevant to the story) between the lines details...

 

Just saw the movie (I bought the DVD with some Christmas money because my superhero fandom sometimes comes back to bite me in the wallet). I'll just post some quick thoughts:

This movie had a few good action scenes, and Holland is passable as Peter/Spider-Man,but the teen drama is turned up to 11 and most of the supporting cast sucks. The party scene is THE most painful thing i've had to sit through in a superhero movie this year, and I watched parts of Logan. Tony stark is a huge asshole in this movie, which makes sense after the events of civil War but he was just intolerable here. Speaking of Civil War, the opening scene of Peter filming it was shit. I'd go on with my problems with the film, but I want to keep this relatively short.

This is still a better movie then the two Amazing Spider-Man films, but falls far short of the Raimi movies, even including Spider-Man 3.