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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x08 - "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

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I DID forget about that =)



Im not sure what age shes supposed to be here, but its clear she is a young girl.
So she must have been with them for a while
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I just wish she was more vulcan in her behaviour i guess..

Why expect a human child to be more Vulcan, they are not just a different ethnic group or culture its a different species.
 
Why expect a human child to be more Vulcan, they are not just a different ethnic group or culture its a different species.
Lets make this a true story then....
Vulcan exist, and burnham was raised by vulcans from childhood, with all that strict vulcan training. She is now an adult, would i expect burnham to behave more like a vulcan than a human? Yes! Yes i would...
 
I KNOW shes not a vulcan =)
As i said before.. I (me,my opinion),
would like it more if the writers had made the character in more control of her feelings.
 
I KNOW shes not a vulcan =)
As i said before.. I (me,my opinion),
would like it more if the writers had made the character in more control of her feelings.
And of course you are completely entitled to your opinion! :beer:

But, with all respect to yours, mine is that her inability to control her emotions, despite being raised with the (unfair) expectation that she should be able to, is an important central element of her character, right from "The Vulcan Hello" where she is trying to use her Vulcan-imbued logic to come up with a solution just as her brother would, but this is clouded and subverted by her feelings about the Klingons, stemming from the childhood trauma she suffered at their hands. She's damaged goods, emotionally speaking, and in spite of his efforts to help her, Sarek inadvertently compounded her issues. In trying earnestly to make her better, he made her worse.

Repression and denial are not an answer. That is not what leads to true control. She needs to allow herself to confront, accept, and ultimately embrace her conflicted emotions. It's unnatural and harmful, certainly for a human, to do otherwise. She needs to understand and not be an inexperienced stranger to them. Her bond with Georgiou was helping her to make some modest progress toward that, cracking her shell a little, but then she was set back by her triggering encounter with the Torch-bearer and by Georgiou's death that followed from it. She's not in a struggle to be free of her emotions. She's in a struggle to be at peace with them. And when you really think about it, that was Spock's true struggle as well, and indeed all Vulcans. So in that way, she's actually much more Vulcan than you suggest...in my opinion.

-MMoM:D
 
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T'Bonz, you are drunk. Comparing Ensign "I will be Captain, so suck it. I am also the best thing about STD" Tilly to Wesley "Please shoot me out of the airlock" Crusher. Tilly WILL be captain. Kill Lorca, demote Saru for mental instability and promote Tilly to Captain by end season 2 at latest (if Kirk can go from ensign to Captain in one movie, so can Tilly). That would be a less convoluted arc than getting mutineer Burnham back to 1st officer. But imagine Burnham/Tilly as 1st Officer and Captain. That would not be half bad.
Not impossible during times of war, there are never enough trained crews as ships can be replaced relatively easily but replacing experienced crew members is another matter entirely.

Tilly has a solid shot at rapid promotion if she plays her cards right.

The Admirals are all doomed though as usual. :biggrin:
 
Why expect a human child to be more Vulcan, they are not just a different ethnic group or culture its a different species.
The Vulcan species is naturally emotional, and their non-emotionalism is a learned behavior. If a human is raised in that environment and is specifically trained to be Vulcan-like from an early age, she should also be able to attain the same level of emotionlessness. Maybe she didn't start early enough in life. Or maybe being around humans for the last seven years and being expected to act like them instead of like Vulcans really changed her.

Kor
 
The Vulcan species is naturally emotional, and their non-emotionalism is a learned behavior. If a human is raised in that environment and is specifically trained to be Vulcan-like from an early age, she should also be able to attain the same level of emotionlessness. Maybe she didn't start early enough in life. Or maybe being around humans for the last seven years and being expected to act like them instead of like Vulcans really changed her.

Kor

I also think it's implied that Vulcans have a more highly developed mind and brain, which helps the discipline aspect of their non-emotional philosophy.

So, even though humans can achieve that same discipline it isn't likely far more inherently difficult.
 
The Vulcan species is naturally emotional, and their non-emotionalism is a learned behavior. If a human is raised in that environment and is specifically trained to be Vulcan-like from an early age, she should also be able to attain the same level of emotionlessness.
The first statement is true, but I don't think the second follows. Vulcan brains have different capacities and characteristics to human brains. And their mental/cultural disciplines would be tailored to that, and to their particular history. You can't just turn a human into a Vulcan, psychologically, via indoctrination. Nor can you do the reverse. Burnham and Spock are actually both illustrations of this.
 
I also think it's implied that Vulcans have a more highly developed mind and brain, which helps the discipline aspect of their non-emotional philosophy.

So, even though humans can achieve that same discipline it isn't likely far more inherently difficult.

I wondered about that as well. But Trek has shown that centuries from now, human kids will already be learning calculus around age eleven or twelve (I went all the way through university without learning any!). So the potential could be there.

Kor
 
Interestingly enough, there were slight inferences that there was something physiological to the Vulcan non-emotionalism too. "This Side of Paradise" comes immediately to mind, but I think there were others.
 
Interestingly enough, there were slight inferences that there was something physiological to the Vulcan non-emotionalism too. "This Side of Paradise" comes immediately to mind, but I think there were others.

Maybe the Vulcans' savagery in past eras was compounded because on a physiological level, their brains had difficulty producing emotional empathy for those they warred against.

Kor
 
Ultimately, Discovery is a scattershot, hopelessly muddled attempt at being a Star Trek series. Loads and heaps of ideas, some of them actually good, most of them not, splashed across the screen in some loose semblance of a story. I get that the showrunners see the episodes as chapters in a book. Nifty concept, poorly executed. The main points are awkwardly forced (Lorca, Admiral What's Her Name, the Adherents of T'Mushmouth, Kol, another mushmouth, Stamets, the romance between Burnham and Ash, super annoying Tilly, and super-duper mega-man Saru). One gets the feeling the showrunners are screaming at us, "THIS IS STAR TREK, DAMNIT!!!!". But no. It's Shit Trek. And I'm done with it. I gave Enterprise two seasons to get it together. Forget it. I don't have that kind of patience anymore. Wolfe out.
 
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If that dipstick is Tilly then pour me a glass too. I think she could be Captain in this mirror universe set up but that would imply she has to be the total opposite of herself to get there.
 
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