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Spoilers Supergirl - Season 3

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^ Eh, where you see "mixed messages," I see complexity and nuance. You seem to have wanted the episode to endorse religion and faith -- which I would say it often implicitly did, by showing characters we admire and respect, like Kara and J'onn, practicing it. But the show was more interested in exploring faith than outright embracing it, and it did so with considerable intelligence and fair-handedness.
 
There was nothing sympathetic about the near collective, dismissive attitude regarding the man asking Lena if she had been baptized. That's the showrunners pushing a general resistance of religion (real religion, not DC Comics stories) by many of the main characters.

I think that might have more to do with asking a religious question as a prerequisite to sexual encounter in a nominally secular environment. And you can tease out a ton of stuff with that. Would you be as offended if the ladies had scoffed because unnamed Head of State had asked Lena if she was a baptized Catholic if they were about to negotiate a business deal and then called it off when she wasn't?

Also, I know we're in a Cool Dad Pope period at the moment, but we're a long way away from a Pope that's cool enough to be down with Casual Non-Marital Rich People Sex That Probably Will Involve A Condom. If anything, if he was devout(ish), wouldn't he want Lena to not be Catholic? Unless, of course, he's Protestant (or whatever else) and never got past the schoolyard gossip that the Catholic girls were evil dirty sinners who'd do the really weird stuff (and didn't pick up on the fact that the Catholic boys said the same thing about the Protestant (or whatever) girls).

Honestly, I think the anecdote just seems weird because I can't see any way the dude could be asking that question and not have it be a mood-killer. Maybe he was trying to get rid of Lena. If she says no, he says he insists on religious compatibility with his one-night-stands so they can guarantee an awkward encounter in the afterlife, and if she says yes, now she's thinking of Sister Chastity rapping her knuckles with a ruler and warning her about smooth talking boys who will lead her to the path of certain damnation and will beg off on her own.

On the other hand, Lena said she was a little attracted by him believing in something, which reminds me of my freshman year in college at a free-food get-together in the dorms where they wanted to make sure we all knew that no meant no and condoms were a thing. At one point, they were talking about why someone might not want to go all the way and were soliciting examples from the group, and my roommate said he'd slowed things down in the past for "religious reasons," and I swear I could hear half the girls in the room suddenly, simultaneously checking him out. Perhaps, in a world of convenient hypocrisies and realigning social foundations, any sacrifice prompted by genuine belief in an ideal can seem both alien and admirable. Or maybe some people just like a challenge.
 
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Honestly, I think the anecdote just seems weird because I can't see any way the dude could be asking that question and not have it be a mood-killer. Maybe he was trying to get rid of Lena.

No, I think lots of men have very distorted ideas about what women want or are aroused by -- or have just never really thought about it, since they're only concerned with their own desires and don't consider women's point of view at all. (I recently rewatched the failed Cathy Lee Crosby Wonder Woman pilot from 1974, and though it's a pretty weak and weird movie, there's a nice bit where a villain is trying to seduce Wonder Woman and brazenly says he wants to make love to her. She asks "Why?" and he begins talking about how desirable he finds her, and she replies, no, I meant why should I find you desirable? He just took it for granted that if he wanted a woman, she would be sufficiently flattered by the interest to give herself to him. What aroused or interested her was a subject that had never occurred to him.)

In this case, it was a head of state propositioning Lena. He was probably used to women going along with his requests because he was powerful, which either turned them on or made them too intimidated to say no. Lena may have been the first woman he'd tried that line on who had enough power of her own to turn him down.

On the other hand, Lena said she was a little attracted by him believing in something, which reminds me of my freshman year in college at a free-food get-together in the dorms where they wanted to make sure we all knew that no meant no and condoms were a thing. At one point, they were talking about why someone might not want to go all the way and were soliciting examples from the group, and my roommate said he'd slowed things down in the past for "religious reasons," and I swear I could hear half the girls in the room suddenly, simultaneously checking him out. Perhaps, in a world of convenient hypocrisies and realigning social foundations, any sacrifice prompted by genuine belief in an ideal can seem both alien and admirable. Or maybe some people just like a challenge.

I'd bet those women were intrigued less by his religion than by the simple idea of a man that wouldn't be constantly trying to pressure them into sex. I think many women, especially in college, would find that quite rare in their experience. Usually they'd have to be the ones slowing things down -- and hoping that their dates would take no for an answer. To be free of that concern would be liberating, regardless of the man's reasons.
 
Pretty sure the main takeaway from the "baptised" anecdote is just supposed to be "people can be weird and oddly *specifically* hypocritical", particularly where religion (which in western society is mostly Christianity) and sex intersects. The broader message of course loops back to the main plot about how religion can be twisted and practitioning is often at odds with the preaching.
 
Did they adapt anything directly from the comic books for this episode ? I can't remember. The only thing I can recall is when the New 52 had a story arc with Rao bringing chaos to Earth. Does the Cult of Rao have something to do with Reign at all ? I still had no chance to read anything with the Worldkillers, so I'm totally out of the loop about this Season's villain.

This Ep. was very powerful. Especially the scene in which Kara recognizes the people she saved. It's nice to see on live action these moments in which Kryptonians acknowledge that their consequences to Earth are way beyond of what the eyes can see, you know, that they have this psychological and philosophical effect over people too.
 
As was pointed out by the hosts of the Supergirl TV Talk podcast, the Cult of Rao has similarities to a few different things from the comics, such as the "Cult of Conner" and the Superman worshippers from Superman: The Power Within, bit isn't a total match.

There are deliberate similarities, though, between the Cult of Rao and the "death cult" that we know sent Reign/Sam to Earth, members of which we saw both in the S2 finale and this episode.
 
I think that might have more to do with asking a religious question as a prerequisite to sexual encounter in a nominally secular environment. And you can tease out a ton of stuff with that. Would you be as offended if the ladies had scoffed because unnamed Head of State had asked Lena if she was a baptized Catholic if they were about to negotiate a business deal and then called it off when she wasn't?

Remember, there is precedent for the negative/disrespectful attitude, at least in Alex, as seen in the flashback of "Myriad" (season 1) with the following exchange between J'onn and Alex, tone saying as much as the words:

J'onn: "It's a good thing I'm not a lawyer."
Alex: "What are you--a priest, then?? You're wasting your time. I'm not exactly a prime candidate for jailhouse conversion."

So, the series already established a main character exhibit a negative attitude toward religion, which flowed into this episode with the collective contempt that was more than just thinking the nameless man was hypocritical . Further, I also cite James' contradictory statements about there being nothing wrong with believing (in the spiritual sense, as that was the nature of the conversation with Kara), yet following that with an acceptance, or perhaps encouragement of a clearly non-spiritual belief of people "needing" a form of false idol worship as in the case of this episode's cult. The showrunners cannot balance the two, as one is spirituality based on faith, the other is saying idolatry is of value as if its a good alternative to said faith.

On the other hand, Lena said she was a little attracted by him believing in something, which reminds me of my freshman year in college at a free-food get-together in the dorms where they wanted to make sure we all knew that no meant no and condoms were a thing. At one point, they were talking about why someone might not want to go all the way and were soliciting examples from the group, and my roommate said he'd slowed things down in the past for "religious reasons," and I swear I could hear half the girls in the room suddenly, simultaneously checking him out.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that, David cgc. If anything, it just seems Lena was simply respecting his belief in anything, rather than Lena possibly opening the door to becoming one of faith herself.
 
In my heart, I'm not sure if I completely believe what I am about to say next...

They wasted Chad Lowe on this episode?
 
So what made the Aunt tolerant enough to accept a homosexual, but mainstream enough to be allowed to communicate with her sibling?

More like the parents can tolerate a liberal sister, but not a lesbian daughter. One hits closer to home, sadly.

And, yeah, I think the girl's night out bit was less about them mocking the very idea of baptism or Catholicism than about them laughing at the weirdness of some dude bringing that up while hitting on Lena. Talk about freaky pick-up lines! :)

(Not that I imagine that Lena is particularly devout.)
 
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ETA: There's one exception: The Buckley cover at the end. Not because it's bad - it's in fact one of my favorite songs of all time - but just the fact that it seems like every other TV show has to squeeze it in at some point, that it's starting to become trite.

Cohen himself said on multiple occasions that the song should be retired. I never heard him complain about royalty cheques though.
 
Does Maggie Know that the president is an alien?

If there was some gay rights clusterfuck, where her orientation is put to the sword, by the government, she could PULL IT DOWN.

MAD.
 
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I wonder why Coville would worship only Supergirl as a God as oposed to looking at al Kryptons like that because Superman has been around for awhile. Makes we wonder he see's them more like Angels and Supergirl might be their cities version of a Guardian Angel.

Jason

I would guess that if this story is addressed in the future it will be part of the "Reign" story arc.
 
Supergirl--
"Damage"

Kara/SG:
All of this "Lena is good" business should--in competent hands--lead to her actually pulling the rug out from under those who breathlessly defend her...like Kara. This series is so lacking in any memorable villains, that a younger, regular Luthor would be the natural candidate to take that role...but.....

What the Hell is up with her solidarity* with Lena? James risked his life to save Lena, yet when he rightfully questions Lena's involvement with the device and its development history, she cops an attitude with him? Kara was a complete asshole with warped loyalties, barely offering a sympathetic facial expression for his heroism and suffering. Ah, the message this series sends...

Samantha: I imagine her "buddy" routine with Kara will end once the Reign plot ramps up, yet her daughter is still worshipping SG.

James: Despite taking a bullet for Lena, he's still marginalized as usual--even his position at CatCo has been reduced to a "yes boss" status, with Lena's brief walking away from her title giving him anything to do. What was the point of having him on the show, other than to inspire that army of SG fans who still whine that Brooks is not "right" (I can think of another word to go there) for the role, and that he "should look and act Winn."

Morgan Edge: He was correct in blaming Lena for the use of the lead dispersal bomb, making Kara's Supergirl blame bit pointless and desperate. Even if he created a similar effect and blamed it on the bomb, she still had no true right to use the weapon near any human being. The one good thing about him is that he's not at all intimidated by SG, but where SG will not kill him, expect the next superpowered person to take it that far....

Lena: At least she admits that she thinks like a Luthor. I still do not buy the wee bit of thawing between Lena and James means she's a changing personality.

NOTES:

Pushing the plane from inside the fuselage is not known to alter its flight path.

The entire airplane sequence FX...oh, well.

GRADE: D+
 
Putting aside the question of "How was James slighted this week?" (clearly THE central consideration in any Supergirl episode), I thought this one was pretty good in the end. I say "in the end" because I wasn't sure how well it was working for the first act or two, but things got better and better as it went along. The plane rescue was spectacularly exciting, the confrontation between Supergirl and Edge intense and well-written (and Pasdar killed it), the final-act scene between Lena and James promising (with Lena's drunken speech to Kara earlier in the show also a high point), and the latest Reign development effectively chilling.

Have to say, however, that at this point I'm just as glad Maggie's gone. I thought the relationship was wonderfully developed last season, but the awkward necessity of writing the character out this year has unfortunately felt forced and contrived more often than not (though Leigh, of course, gives it her emotional all and comes as close to selling the scenes as anyone could).

After last week's all-around excellent episode and all the good stuff this time, I'm definitely starting to feel more positive about this season. The darker tones are starting to gain depth and nuance, unlike the rather ham-fisted "me sad alien" approach of the opening episodes. Plus, coming soon: the Legion!
 
This was a pretty effective one. It always bothered me that they used the "Daxamite lead poisoning" thing as a plot point -- it seemed in very poor taste after Flint. This was at least an acknowledgment of the problem, a smarter way of using the concept, and a pretty effective story. It seems the new showrunners are going for substance and depth, which is working pretty well so far. It's something the show had more of in its first season than its second, so I'm glad to see a shift back in that direction.

Supergirl holding up the cargo plane from the inside should not have worked. Okay, her flight power is magic, but the first-season finale established that it somehow involved exerting thrust against the atmosphere, since she can't fly in vacuum. So whatever thrust she exerted against the plane deck below her would've cancelled out the lift she exerted on the top of it. But once the plane split in two and she was holding up both parts -- now, that was a fantastic Super-stunt, and a nice character bit with Supergirl convincing Lena to save herself. (I was reminded of the cultist girl last week who said that being saved by Supergirl reassured her that she was worthy of being loved.)

The Alex-Maggie breakup is both weird and interesting. It does seem arbitrary that they'd break up over this -- it was never adequately explored why Maggie was so adamantly against ever having kids -- but people are arbitrary sometimes. Sometimes they have differences they just can't get over even when they love each other. Breakups on TV are usually so bitter and angry, driven by betrayal or deception or something. It was an interesting change of pace to see a story about a breakup between two people who really, really did not want to break up and didn't love each other any less.

I have to admit -- for a moment there when Alex and Maggie went to bed together, I wondered if there was going to be a plot twist wherein it resulted in one of them accidentally getting pregnant. And then I felt like an idiot when I realized... :lol:
 
Andrew Kreisberg addresses the "Sanvers" breakup and why he and the other writers chose to approach it in the manner that they did here.
 
Plot dictated varying strength levels are always aggravating to see. The pilot episode-which last week's story flashed back to, had SG rescuing a much larger passenger plane, she's lifted Fort Rozz into orbit, and slowed down a Daxamite ship attempting to fly into space. A cargo plane shouldn't have been so difficult to maneuver, and definitely not done from the inside.
 
How unfortunate for Alex and Maggie that they had to break up due to their personal differences. The former wanted to be a parent, but the latter didn't want any kids. Well, I guess couples have broken up for far less important reasons. They had such good chemistry. I suppose Maggie could've changed her perspective if she really wanted to stay with Alex. After all, don't relationships involve sacrifice?

One could never really demonize Lena Luthor because Supergirl/Kara is always there to protect her integrity. Good for you, Lena!
 
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