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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x08 - "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

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He doesn't say that. Here's the dialogue from the end of the episode:
Saru: I lied to you and Lt. Tyler. I attacked you. I could have killed you.
Michael: You weren't yourself.
Saru: But I was.

Saru was not controlled, so his actions were not those of a "controlled crewmember." That's my point--not that he didn't want them to stay on the planet, not that he didn't at least say that he thought the planet was the answer--but that these were his character-based actions, not those of someone whose mind had been compromised and controlled.

EDIT: Which is to say, I don't think we've seen that before--a character turning out not to be controlled. The episode knows we expect him to be controlled, and turns it on its head.
TOS - "This Side of Paradise"
No one was directly controlled. The effect of the spores brought out their innate personality traits - and repeared any heealth issues.

TNG - "Lonely Among Us"
Picard was not controlled. He was able to combine/communicate with the energy being while in Human form and per his own comments, wanted to experience/see the Galaxy in such a form. He resigned and beamed himself out energy only but per Troi the symbiosis wasn't possible in that form so (somehow) Picard (as energy) managed to work himself as ani energy form (supposedly with the help of the other energy lifeform who again, per Troi didn't abandon Picard) back onto the ship and into the Transporter buffer - which Data rematerialized.
 
Good episode but it felt a bit rushed, like two episodes crammed together. According to After Trek a lot was cut out of it, in particular more scenes between L'rell and Cornwell. I feel the episodes suffers as a result of the cuts. However, there was plenty I did like about it

Likes:
- The opening battle was great. Lorca's desperation to save the Gagarin shone through. I particularly liked when Discovery maneuvered to intercept the klingons torpedoes. Despite what the naysayers say, I think Lorca does give a fuck. It was also cool to finally see Discovery flying!

- Pahvo. I'm glad that we finally got to a planet and it was weird with glowy aliens. Definitely felt like old school trek. Hopefully the Pahvans don't get blown up next week

- Saru. I liked what they did with him this episode. I would have liked a bit more detail and depth to what was going on him Saru's head, like a scene where the pahvans speak to him in english or kelpian or something to flesh things out a bit more.

- Cornwell. Holy crap, for a psychiatrist she sure can fight. I like this dynamic that is forming between her and L'rell. There is no way Cornwell is dead. I think L'rell just shoved her into a conduit to convince Kol that Cornwell was done for.

Dislikes:
- Pacing. The episode felt super rushed, which i think was a problem with episodes 1 - 4. 'Lethe' and 'Magic to make the sanest man go mad' felt like they had the pacing under control but this episode felt like it was two steps backwards.

- I feel the Klingon/Cornwell subplot probably could have been an episode in itself. Apparently a lot of the Cornwell/L'rell interactions ended up on the cutting room floor. I wouldn't have minded seeing an episode that was a character study of Cornwell and L'rell reaching a common ground.

- The Stamets plot felt really tacked on. I felt like this episode didn't have the room for such an important plot point.

Overall, while it's not perfect I think Kirsten Beyer did a good job with her first Discovery script but there is still room for improvement. I think this may be Beyer's first TV script and I think it shows. However, i have faith that Beyer will do some good work in the future. Beyer knows the universe thanks to writing 9 Voyager novels and I'm looking forward to her next episode.

7.5/10 Pahvan transmitters.
 
Although if this is going to be the Production team's attempt at a technicality regarding Klingon Cloaking tech; please that ship has sailed. And sorry to say, but unless Starfleet is terminally incompetent; with the degree of cloaking tech we've seen -- there's no way Kirk or Spock wouldn't/shouldn't have recalled this during TOS - "Balance of Terror" so even I have to say I wish the Production team would stop trying to claim "Oh, any seeming continuity violations will be explained by the end -- trust us." because sorry, at this point I don't see any other explanation then: "Hey, we really don't care that much about actual TOS continuity - and we really didn't want to limit our story options..."

And you know, if they just came out and admitted this at the start, I as a hardcore TOS fan would have been fine with that - but I really hate it when they sit there and go: "No it'll all be worked out because we do care, and we're all BIG TOS fans..." Yeah, they may be TOS fans, but again, I'd rather see an honest answer then the BS they've been shoveling on that aspect. And again, this really felt like warmed over ST:VOY.

Time crystal sitting somewhere in one of Disco's labs. If the battle of the binary stars never happens, the klingons never spread this cloaking tech around and Kirk and Spock have no reason to know it exists...
 
Yeah, they are really painful to watch together.

Sonequa and Jason were on a show here in the UK on Friday, so they showed a clip of Burham and Lorca. Afterwards one of the hosts was commenting on the sexual tension between the characters. The actors were so shocked. :lol:
 
Watched it, look like another TOS/TNG episode or TOS since I don’t recall seeing any main TNG crew acting like Saru. Going to give it a 9 although it is a cliffhanger.
 
We should kill her?
Wouldn't go that far. She has a certain amount of 'heart', but when I was watching the scenes that went from L'Rell and the Admiral, to Michael, Tyler and Saru, I felt more interested in L'Rell and the Admiral. I think their talk about escape (albeit dubious as to whether L'Rell was manipulating), but that scene was good. There was a kind of power chemistry.
 
I agree with you, the pacing was off in this one. Seemed like the editing wasn't as good as other eps for some reason. If it's true that L'Rell/Cornwell parts were cut for time, that's disappointing as they were both great in this episode.

However, there were still some great moments. Loved finally getting the first planetside away mission since the pilot. Saru's story was really well done, I liked that he wasn't being controlled or possessed, so much as having a unique personal experience which clouded his judgement. Hopefully this will give him more insight into why Burnham did what she did.

I'm going to have to do a rewatch on the Klingon stuff because there's a lot to unpack. Especially if this is the set up episode for the next. Both Cornwell and L'Rell are compelling characters. I really hope Cornwell isn't dead. Some of the shots were a bit too lingering. Let's hope that means L'Rell is more honorable than we think.
 
Weakest episode yet. I gave it a 5. :(
I have to agree. That was the weakest episode yet, at least since the premiere episodes. The plot felt convoluted and some of it didn't make sense to me. And why is so much of it left ambiguous? Was Saru controlled by the Pahvans or not? Did L'rell really try to escape or not? Is Cornwell dead or not? Does Kol know L'rell tried to escape or not? Why would he make her one of his house then? This episode didn't seem like it had any answers.

- strange wispy blue energy beings
Yeah, what's up with that? That's now the third (!) time on the show they have chosen blue, swirling dust to represent some alien property: those space microbes in “Context is for Kings”, the space fungus from the s-drive and now the Pahvans. Getting a little unimaginative, methinks.

I'm not really sure where the random wigwam came from...that threw me for a bit of a loop.
Yeah, that threw me too. Why would a non-corporeal species build a tent, complete with stools to sit on? :confused:

Oh boy, I hope next week gets the show back on track. :(
 
This episode....

Well, it flew by. I was surprised when the credits rolled, it didn't seem a full episode had gone by. I didn't mind them doing a cliffhanger though, that was better than trying to wrap up a complex story in one part, I got a vibe of a TNG era 'Part 1' from the pacing, although I liked the self contained Saru story as well.

Liked the planet. Got a real Stargate SG-1 vibe from the planetside stuff, and the 'Canada with colour filter' planet reminded me of the times that show pulled that trick. I thought this was a fun introduction to planetary exploration and I thought the idea of the planet and its harmonious inhabitants was very Star Trek indeed. Although, to continue the SG-1 parrallels, this episode was very similarly themed to the s1 Stargate episode The Nox. Go to strange planet to explore the idea of a cloaking device, strange stuff happens, meet mysterious peaceful beings who won't let you fight your enemy. Helps that I loved The Nox. Where did that tent come from though? Do these aliens have powers of illusion, like, say, for example, the Nox? ;)

Saru's motivations were a little unclear through the episode but I think they just pulled it off with the final scene in sickbay and it played true to his setup as a character. Someone who desperately wants a life free from fear finds an oasis away from a terrifying war, it makes a kind of sense that he would be drawn to it. He is very trusting of his teammates though - he takes their communicators but not their weapons....

TOS nods aplenty this episode - landing party (score 10 continuity points), the double handed Kirk smash, the communicator chirp, ten to the twelfth power, needs of the many...

The Klingon stuff (mostly) worked. The scenes in Klingon between L'Rell and Kor... not so much though. Those scenes are still too static, too staged, with big theatrical and overlong hand gestures that make them look like power rangers characters. The scenes in English between L'Rell and the Admiral were great and I'm disappointed to learn there was far more cut for time because I think that relationship was an interesting one and worth exploring. I think I've worked out what throws off the subtitled scenes. The language is so slow and cumbersome that it is hard for the actors to react naturally because the conversation doesn't flow at normal speed. When someone speaks, they have to stand there like a lemon for ages waiting for the sentence to finish so they can react to what was said. In English, their acting is much more fluid and natural.

The opening battle was great, well shot and more submarine than dogfight which I always like. Lorca's standing up, near the front style suits him very well and him flying into the path of the Klingon torpedoes is an interesting twist for those who insist he is selfishly motivated. The loss of the Gargarin may not have had much screen time but Isaacs carries the moment perfectly and I bought his grief and sense of defeat.

Stamets seems to be seeing outside of time as well as space - that was my interpretation anyway. "Captain" he addresses the cadet. Based on recent movies, he's seeing about 8 months into the future. ;)

Overall, enjoyed it more than Magic to Irritate the Internet, not quite as much as Choose Your Obvious Spy, so I'll give this one a 7/10.

So, Part II - I'm guessing this planet is a sort of Organian type setup (or, to continue to stretch my parallel, a Nox type setup) where an alien race who value peace above personal victory step in to mediate a conflict. I had a feeling something like this was coming, based on pre-show publicity about peaceful people finding solutions to war. I'm interested, anyway. So they've sold the concept well.
 
And why is so much of it left ambiguous? Was Saru controlled by the Pahvans or not? Did L'rell really try to escape or not? Is Cornwell dead or not? Does Kol know L'rell tried to escape or not?
No, Yes, left deliberately unclear so probably No, Yes.
 
DSC is all about not giving the answers, until giving the answers. That we have unanswered questions from this episode is not surprising in the slightest. That we still have unanswered questions from older eps is where we might worry...

What I think was an honest mistake is the stardate. 1308.9 after last week's 2137.2 may be solely due to "Magic" being a filler ep written off sequence, and "Para Bellum" being mainstream.

Also, why the camera attention to that female thug of Kol's? Does L'Rell's Klingon/human swapper work fast or what?

Timo Saloniemi
 
I really hope Cornwell isn't dead. Some of the shots were a bit too lingering. Let's hope that means L'Rell is more honorable than we think.
Me too. She looked a bit like what the cat dragged into a chamber of horrors though. After Georgiou died, then Landry.. might be worth giving the Admiral another shot of life. L'Rell is an enigma but essentially she has a game plan she just needs to survive long enough to make it happen. She wants on Discovery and she saw/sees the Admiral as her ticket.
 
Problem is with some of it I'm not sure if it's left ambiguous on purpose or merely by accident, i.e. poor writing or editing. I just feel it would be an odd decision to leave a thing like Admiral Cornwell's status open. It's almost the same as with Captain Georgiou's death; why would you want your audience to guess about such a thing only to “reveal” that she was really dead? But oh well, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
I just feel it would be an odd decision to leave a thing like Admiral Cornwell's status open.
Really? "Are they dead?!?!" is a time honoured cliffhanger technique. I near guarantee that was deliberate. And on sci-fi, you can usually assume that if there is any ambiguity at all, they're not dead.

I hope that's the case anyway, because killing female authority figures is becoming a bad habit.

It's almost the same as with Captain Georgiou's death; why would you want your audience to guess about such a thing only to “reveal” that she was really dead.
Georgiou was pretty explicit, no life signs detected, stabbed through the heart. They left her behind so they could have them eat her for extra nastiness points.
 
So, while Saru booked it at 80 kph after Burnham, Ash Tyler managed to talk to the Pahvans and convince them to teleport him to the transmitter. Since vocabulary hasn't been completed, I assume they just read his mind too.

Good thing Tyler wasn't convinced to "let go of all conflict" (the episode is an apt critique of the Roddenberry-TNG ethos), and maybe through Tyler, did the Pahvans learn that all Klingons aren't bad.

I guess Kor didn't pick up his brother's face-staining habit.
 
I hope that's the case anyway, because killing female authority figures is becoming a bad habit.
Yeah, I'm trying not to take it 'personally' but I'm starting to resent that. To me an Admiral being this physically slight woman but one with earned experience and authority is good to see. To be honest I barely noticed her in the first episodes she featured in but now I do. Just like L'Rell, there was something sympathetic about her tonight and strong.
 
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