Discovery starship discussion [SPOILERS]

[Tomalak]

2) If there's no built-in self-destruct to the Klingon look currently, one will be devised by the second season at the very latest, although it obviously need not be quite as drastic as the S-drive self-destruct.

Timo Saloniemi

I don't think so. I think we're just to accept that it's what Klingons 'always' looked like, in the same way that Blood Oath (despite later retcons) intended that Kor, Kang and Koloth had always had ridges. And fans were mostly happy with that until Enterprise felt the need to explain it.

File it under Bajorans losing the extra 'v' on the bridge of the nose, for example, or Romulans developing cranial ridges.

I suppose if we want, we could explain it as a failed attempt to eradicate the Augment changes, or a faction of Klingons who are really into bod mods. It kind of makes sense that the "Remain Klingon" guys would double down and want to look more like Fek'lhr than their modestly-ridged grandparents.

 

[Timo]

I suppose Lorca didn't finish L'Rell off because she was prone on the floor and he didn't want to vapourize whatever potentially explosive things lay just under it.

...On a rewatch, this rationale is doubly eliminated because Lorca originally deliberately aims at the wall and its exposed explosive doodads!

It's apparently only by accident that something (disruptor effect, or then molten metal from the disruptor bolt hitting the wall) sprays on L'Rell's face. Lorca even looks concerned when L'Rell goes down.

Why Lorca only wanted to fire a warning shot is left unexplained. If he's a Klingon plant, why stop short of eliminating this kins(wo)man after killing so many others? Or is Lorca actually Voq, after a switcharoo in the torture room (and Tyler is an innocent Starfleet bystander after all or then an independent second Klingon plant), and hesitates to kill his lover?

Of course, propagation of disruption effect from target to bystander would be quite possible as long as L'Rell and Tyler are doing their Klingon petting routine. But again that can't be the reason because Lorca already callously vaporized one Klingon who was in physical contact with Tyler.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

The thing is, Star Trek has changed the physical look of the Klingons as a species before. But they have always kept the general design of their warships after they finally introduced them during the third season of TOS. That design style stayed relatively the same all the way to Into Darkness. And then suddenly it goes radically different for all but one ship that is barely similar in shape to a Neg'Vhar.

 

[Tomalak]

The thing is, Star Trek has changed the physical look of the Klingons as a species before. But they have always kept the general design of their warships after they finally introduced them during the third season of TOS. That design style stayed relatively the same all the way to Into Darkness. And then suddenly it goes radically different for all but one ship that is barely similar in shape to a Neg'Vhar.

To be fair that was largely budgetary - reusing the same models, shots and meshes time and again. Look at the D7/KTinga model from DS9 popping up in Enterprise for example, or TNG using that BoP endlessly, and even dropping in the explosion of Chang's ship into Generations.

I agree that Discovery departs drastically and largely needlessly though. ST09 gave us a lovely rebooted battlecruiser so it's a deliberate decision.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I agree that Discovery departs drastically and largely needlessly though. ST09 gave us a lovely rebooted battlecruiser so it's a deliberate decision.

It's not exactly baseless either. For one thing, i immediately noticed that the small Klingon raiders we keep seeing have clear design callbacks to the small bird of prey we saw in STID. More to the point, most of the Klingon designs seem to be based on some of the concept art for ST09 and STID that was later scrapped for more conventional Klingon-like designs. The original concepts for Klingon warships were supposed to take into account that they spent years studying the design of the Narada and building their ships to match that design, resulting in a sort of smaller Narada-like Klingon hybrid. In practice, the design came up looking something like a giant flying dagger or edged weapon, the kind of thing that looks like it should be wielded by a fifty-mile tall demigod as he literally slices your planet to pieces and eats it raw.

The concept art for these Klingon ships resembles all of this and more. They're intended to look both very threatening and very alien. This is definitely a deliberate decision by the producers, but it's a deliberate decision with a purpose: the Klingons LOOK is being changed dramatically to make them as alien as possible so that no one could possible mistake them for just funny-looking humans. But their characterization is going in the opposite direction: their motivations are more varied, more grounded in individual choices and destinies, as if every single Klingon is meant to be seen as a full person with an actual existence in and of itself and not just another faceless mook that nobody cares about (except, of course, for those Klingons who are the equivalent of Starfleet red shirts and literally ARE faceless mooks for dramatic purposes).

 

[Timo]

There's also separate payoff from all the doodling of cool new ideas: they can all be put to use to give the Houses distinct tech identities if needed.

So far, we don't know if this will be the case. Kol had that flat obviously two-nacelled ship design in "Context" that was quite different from L'Rell's triangle; perhaps the two Houses will have matching accompanying tech, with the dragonfly-peacock Raiders and even the triple-bayonet rifles specific to the latter while the former gets something else? (L'Rell is buying into the all-encompassing T'Kumvaism in taking credit for the Bird of Prey attack on Corvan, but were those really her ships?)

They did something like this with the Xindi. But that never was more than halfhearted, as getting all-new props or CGI ships was more costly absolutely and relatively speaking. Looking forward to seeing if they want, will and can do better this time around.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Cpt. Kyle Amasov]

I would love to see them go that route, distinct designs for distinct houses. It's something that has never been done before, but as has been stated above, the reason is budget. Expanding on that idea, maybe there's some sort of base frame for a D7 that can be modified as required, even aesthetically. I think it's important to understand for the producers that if they go for this approach, they really have to pull it off. If we end up seeing the same 4 or 5 types of ships being used by every hose, there's no point of starting the whole idea of vastly different houses (on a personal note, I would love the idea that the houses are mostly autonomous, both politically and stylistically).

 

[Timo]

Upon another reviewing, the identity of the Klingon ship is

- Battle cruiser, according to the shuttle computer and Lt. Rhys
- Prison ship, according to Mudd and Saru
- Bird of Prey, according to Saru

We could either say that the second does not contradict the first, or then say that Mudd is a civilian and Saru is an idiot. The latter would then cover the third bit, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

It would be so much easier to just call it a "Klingon ship".

 

[DEWLine]

My understanding: the D-7 took Lorca to the prison ship, where he met Mudd and Tyler, and escaped from with Tyler aboard one of the BoPs hosted by the prison ship.

Am I wrong?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Nah, they called the li'l guys "raiders", and they hadn't been seen before.

So far, my headcanon is that the D-7 is all scrunched up somehow, and the warp nacelles will at some point deploy on articulated wings into the more familiar shape, and the forward section will telescope to match the more familiar head and neck. Or those parts are bolted onto the wedge shape we've seen so far to become the D-7 we know and love.

Or, the halcyon dream we've all been in for 52 years will wear off and we'll see that the D-7 was like this THE WHOLE TIME.

Mark

 

[Timo]

Or each House will have its own D7 design.

Some classic tech silliness in the abduction scene itself: is the shuttle shielded or not?

If it isn't, why bother fighting Lorca and his chauffeur? Why not just beam them directly into the brig?

if it is, what good are shields an intruder can just walk (or drop) through?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

Or each House will have its own D7 design.

Some classic tech silliness in the abduction scene itself: is the shuttle shielded or not?

If it isn't, why bother fighting Lorca and his chauffeur? Why not just beam them directly into the brig?

if it is, what good are shields an intruder can just walk (or drop) through?

Timo Saloniemi

Perhaps it had transport inhibitors set up to prevent capture?

 

[137th Gebirg]

So far, my headcanon is that the D-7 is all scrunched up somehow, and the warp nacelles will at some point deploy on articulated wings into the more familiar shape, and the forward section will telescope to match the more familiar head and neck. Or those parts are bolted onto the wedge shape we've seen so far to become the D-7 we know and love.

So you're saying the new D-7 is a "grower, not a shower"?

 

[Ronald Held]

Shuttle had shields but it is no match for several fighters.

 

[Samuel]

I wish a Star Trek series would copy some of the Federation, Romulan, Klingon, Gorn, and Orion starship designs from Star Trek: The Role Playing Game by FASA.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Never gonna happen, sadly. Licensing and royalties. CBS is already in trouble with the Franz Joseph estate for using his UFP design that he made for the SF Technical Manual.

 

[Samuel]

Never gonna happen, sadly. Licensing and royalties. CBS is already in trouble with the Franz Joseph estate for using his UFP design that he made for the SF Technical Manual.

Doesn't CBS effectively own the rights to everything Star Trek as long as its not connected to the current movie franchise?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Never gonna happen, sadly. Licensing and royalties. CBS is already in trouble with the Franz Joseph estate for using his UFP design that he made for the SF Technical Manual.

His daughter wasn't happy, but since the design wasn't actually the same (just similar), I doubt anything will come of it.

Doesn't CBS effectively own the rights to everything Star Trek as long as its not connected to the current movie franchise?

The Franz Joseph Schnaubelt Enterprise blueprints and Star Fleet Technical Manual actually pre-date the current "work for hire"/"we own everything you make" way tie-ins are made today. Those works basically invented tie-in fiction. FJ owned all the original stuff for his manual, and was even able to license it separately from Star Trek - leading to the creation of the Star Fleet Battles RPG game and universe.

Gene Roddenberry was not amused, and later manuals and blueprints deliberately contradicted FJ's.

 

[Timo]

Okay, next episode into the fire.

I'm impressed by how smooth going this episode was. Dramatically well-paced and all that, but also with a constant barrage of continuity nuggets that never once felt forced.

Vulcan telepathy is somewhat known, but katras are considered a myth. And then they build a mindmeld machine, complete with mechanical fingers for the pressure points! I think they're having their cake, eating it, sharing with others, and putting a hefty piece in the fridge, too.

Shuttlebay seen in more detail. Apparently, there are lifts in the floor, one rectangle aft of each round turntable, marked in black and yellow striping and with letters (middle one has B), plus with nonsense numbers (0384 for the middle one IIRC). Is there room underfloor for an entire shuttle, or is this just for the barrels littering the bay floor? The shuttle does have shields, and there's some walla about a shield test in, was it "Bay 3"? Or "Berth B", the latter of which would make better sense since Shuttle 1 is the only one seen or being launched and occupies the middle bay.

Admiral Cornwell arrives in a "cruiser" that is not shown. Burnham thinks that a good way to ascend the rank ladder is to try and get aboard a Constitution class ship. Because those are big and important? Because they are second-rate and thus easy, but with exciting errands? Because her brotheroid serves aboard one? Not specified.

We see a holodeck, and apparent dedicated training phasers, with displays for hit counters. A small facility, but not so small that it would necessarily need a "treadmill" forcefield. IIRC, it's just a phaser shooting range, without physical contact to the fake Klingons, so we don't know about that aspect of the quality of the illusion, either.

A good close look at the Death Glider type BoPs. Cool command pods in front, the most "classic" Klingon design so far.

A good close look at a small Vulcan warp vessel, of which several operate near the building where Sarek, Amanda and the Michaels meet. Partial warp ring nicely in evidence, interior reminds of Spock's Jellyfish. Kazon-style suicide bombing that is hot in concept but perhaps not all that plausible - never mind Vulcan stoicism, the guy's face is on internal fire and he's still running cognitive processes.

Lots of lines and other tricks to suggest that the cover of Ash Tyler is about to be blown, even though they are all red herrings. One to suggest that the cover of Gabriel Lorca is about to be blown... and that one isn't stated to smell fishy. What are those markings on his back?

Looking forward to a few trends continuing, such as excellent Vulcan tech-stuff and more Klingonesque Klingons.

Timo Saloniemi