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"Choose Your Pain" Klingon ship (Visual spoilers?)

Oh, and the worst thing? This has all happened before. Are producers not aware of how controversial these things can be, and how much bad faith can be created when a clear message isn't given, after what, a half-dozen very public controversies?
They learned that controversy is good for ratings and they learned that no matter how angry the fans get, they're going to watch anyway just to figure out what all the fuss is about (in fact they're going to watch MORE if there's a lot of fuss).

Meanwhile, they're free to do whatever the hell they want to do because most viewers don't really care about visual continuity and just want to see something cool.

In an era when Marvel is highly faithful to 1960s comics, Star Wars basically makes a big budget fan film in Rogue One, and Blade Runner 2049 is praised for it's fidelity to the original in terms of both visuals and themes, why is Star Trek again at the center of a mounting controversy over fidelity, with something as basic as a ship design that has existed for 40 years being replaced outright, in a show that executives insist is 'Prime Timeline' and 'faithful'?
Because none of the things you just mentioned have ever had any particular problem attracting viewers and fans. Star Wars fills seats, sells toys, sells models, sells costumes. Star Wars TV series blow the lids off their ratings consistently. Star Wars comics sell even when they're terrible. They have something that works and continues to work for decades at a time.

Blade Runner is a cult classic and a well-respected piece of science fiction that, also, ages remarkably well. Hell, even the Alien franchise showed it can pull of 1970s retro style with the "Isolation" videogame and to a certain extent with "Prometheus" and "Covenant."

But Star Trek fanbase has always been very insular and self-referential and clamoring for a return to the past. This is problematic for a TV series, because reruns don't actually make all that much money, and merchandise (toys, action figures, etc) don't sell all that great to the 40-something crowd. So they have tried MANY times to grow beyond the original -- and at this point, I do not mind saying, slightly toxic -- fanbase to attract a new clientele that can sustain long term interest AND be receptive to new products.

Put more succinctly: previous incarnations of Star Trek -- particularly TOS -- had a much shorter shelf life than some of their competing IPs and have exhausted much of their credibility with general audiences. The new task is to come up with a version of Star Trek that is both accessible and entertaining to new audiences who will sustain future products going forward. ST09 was Paramounts attempt to do this, and Discovery is CBS' attempt. I am doubtful of the extent either of them really accomplished this.
 
They learned that controversy is good for ratings and they learned that no matter how angry the fans get, they're going to watch anyway just to figure out what all the fuss is about (in fact they're going to watch MORE if there's a lot of fuss).

Meanwhile, they're free to do whatever the hell they want to do because most viewers don't really care about visual continuity and just want to see something cool.


Because none of the things you just mentioned have ever had any particular problem attracting viewers and fans. Star Wars fills seats, sells toys, sells models, sells costumes. Star Wars TV series blow the lids off their ratings consistently. Star Wars comics sell even when they're terrible. They have something that works and continues to work for decades at a time.

Blade Runner is a cult classic and a well-respected piece of science fiction that, also, ages remarkably well. Hell, even the Alien franchise showed it can pull of 1970s retro style with the "Isolation" videogame and to a certain extent with "Prometheus" and "Covenant."

But Star Trek fanbase has always been very insular and self-referential and clamoring for a return to the past. This is problematic for a TV series, because reruns don't actually make all that much money, and merchandise (toys, action figures, etc) don't sell all that great to the 40-something crowd. So they have tried MANY times to grow beyond the original -- and at this point, I do not mind saying, slightly toxic -- fanbase to attract a new clientele that can sustain long term interest AND be receptive to new products.

Put more succinctly: previous incarnations of Star Trek -- particularly TOS -- had a much shorter shelf life than some of their competing IPs and have exhausted much of their credibility with general audiences. The new task is to come up with a version of Star Trek that is both accessible and entertaining to new audiences who will sustain future products going forward. ST09 was Paramounts attempt to do this, and Discovery is CBS' attempt. I am doubtful of the extent either of them really accomplished this.

I hate to break it to you, but not everyone, far from everyone I suspect, came to Trek through TOS or is 40plus.
There’s probably even some in their early twenties who came in with ENT. But us thirtysomethings with kids to indoctrinate, incomes to spend on merchandise...and a proven history of buying much plastic tat and video games...may have come in around the Movies and TNG eras. One of which, DSC is almost diametrically opposed to it seems at times.
Design wise....well....CBS fumbled much this time. The sets and set dressing are about the only concrete success, a few props....everything else has polarised fans or led to squinting. In terms of a new audience....
Well. I have yet to see any anecdotal evidence of that working out. There was an article about thingumy bob whose name eludes me at this second...Jason isaacs...on io9 today and it didn’t even mention DSC.
On the other hand...it’s io9, they hate DSC and haven’t said much about the Orville. So goodness only knows about that site.
 
The Federation ships work so far, though the breaking point is the Constitution-class, as that is basically the only ship of note that is a known from prior series knowledge of this era of Star Trek.

Most of the Klingon ships just don't work all that well. Now if this D7 ship does have moving sections and the things that look like warp nacelle's on the underside can fold out to become wings like the TMP D7 design and the boom/head combination is tucked away under armor or something, that sure that might become rather cool. But these designs just aren't all that good, and don't in general, say "Klingon" to anyone who has even remote knowledge of what Klingon ships look like....even if its from a satire comedy cartoon.

Perhaps the design will change by the series end. Either by jumping universes, or by the war requiring the Klingons to build more utilitarian industrial style ships to keep their numbers up against the Federation. Their shipyards being unable to keep up production of ornate vessels for the war effort.
 
The Federation ships work so far, though the breaking point is the Constitution-class, as that is basically the only ship of note that is a known from prior series knowledge of this era of Star Trek.

Most of the Klingon ships just don't work all that well. Now if this D7 ship does have moving sections and the things that look like warp nacelle's on the underside can fold out to become wings like the TMP D7 design and the boom/head combination is tucked away under armor or something, that sure that might become rather cool. But these designs just aren't all that good, and don't in general, say "Klingon" to anyone who has even remote knowledge of what Klingon ships look like....even if its from a satire comedy cartoon.

Perhaps the design will change by the series end. Either by jumping universes, or by the war requiring the Klingons to build more utilitarian industrial style ships to keep their numbers up against the Federation. Their shipyards being unable to keep up production of ornate vessels for the war effort.

That’s made me realise something...
Historically the Klingons place most of their value on warriors. Apparently at this point, they also value The Way Of The Fabulous in interior design, fashion and starship design. It’s basically warriors and filigree fiddlers isn’t it.
Probably why they later still drink blood wine, and not a sensible beer.
 
Put more succinctly: previous incarnations of Star Trek -- particularly TOS -- had a much shorter shelf life than some of their competing IPs and have exhausted much of their credibility with general audiences. The new task is to come up with a version of Star Trek that is both accessible and entertaining to new audiences who will sustain future products going forward. ST09 was Paramounts attempt to do this, and Discovery is CBS' attempt. I am doubtful of the extent either of them really accomplished this.
The two Abrams ST films did VERY WELL at the box office (the third which he didn't direct under performed) and did much better then their TNG era films. As for 'shelf-life'...seriously? There are a very few TV series still talked about 50+ years after they were created (I Love Lucy and the Twilight Zone do spring to mind, but the latter is an anthology series - but Lucy did have two revivals over the decades) and NONE that had an animated series, followed by two film series and 18 years of constant spin offs (1987-2005) totaling 29 TV seasons (30 with ST: D).

If there's ONE franchise that's had a LONG shelf life it's Star Trek AS a franchise and TOS in particular (STILL has the most recognized elements of 'Star Trek' to this day.)

Yes, Star Wars is another franchise that will last and be retooled and rebooted and milked for everything Disney can get from it, (And it's 9 years younger than Star Trek) but it's genesis was a feature film (a GOOD and VERY ENTERTAINING film I probably saw more than 100 times from 1977 - 1979 <--- Yes it was in theaters that long, and in those days, you could stay in a theater and watch more than one showing ;))
 
Can I just mention something slightly off topic:

A pipe is still a pipe, no matter what planet you come from - a cylinder, equally distributing pressure in a circle, will always be the most efficient shape for carrying something like pressurized gas or water. Engineering and chemistry works the same anywhere in the universe - because it is rooted in the fundamental physics of our universe. A pyramid is stronger structure than a tower - a dome is stronger yet. This is as true on Mars as Earth. Star Trek knew this. Only when something eons advanced turned up, were material differences inexplicable and enigmatic.

guXCr2C.jpg


So, I mention this, because in some franchises, whether comics or video games or whatever, writers sometimes act as if a contemporary alien civilization would have nothing in common, materially speaking, with humans. They would be full of carved crystals everywhere or whatever. I think some people might have the mistaken impression that something 'truely alien' involves everyone flying around in crazy jaggy hedgehogs made of colored glass - but think about it for a second, and the alien species must still create their technology from common alloys, out of common ores, for common purposes, out of common tools, developed for common reasons, or else they are probably hugely materially advanced, floating around in a cloud of nano-goo, and there is no contest anyway.

Star Trek previously operated under this principle; all roughly equivalent civilizations have roughly the same technologies - ODN relays, duranium hulls, phaser banks, isolinear chips, warp plasma coils, EPS power grids - they did not imply huge differences in material advancement - they did not lean toward fantasy - not an ironclad rule, but bear this in mind when judging classic designs - i.e. Star Trek isn't Halo - and this is why alien ships have warp nacelles and airlocks and deflectors.
 
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Well the Not-D7 in Discovery still had red engines, green hull plating and red torpedo tube in the front.

So it still had some Klingon elements

But then it has things like what ever those glowy purple parts are that are really not Klingon.
 
Well the Not-D7 in Discovery still had red engines, green hull plating and red torpedo tube in the front.

So it still had some Klingon elements


It was really the late era D7 style ships without necks or Nacells. Look at the vor'cha and the negh'var. They share the elements we see here and I am betting they were the starting point of the design. You remove the necks and that is what you are looking at.
 
I hate to break it to you, but not everyone, far from everyone I suspect, came to Trek through TOS or is 40plus.
Never said everyone came through TOS. But if the franchise doesn't attract new fans, how long until the majority of them ARE 40 plus? That's not a rhetorical question, that's just a function of MATH.

As a function of population growth, if the rate of new fan creation does not exceed the average birthrate in a given country, then the average age of those fans is going to increase over time. This is essentially what's started to happen to Star Trek over time; its fans are ON AVERAGE getting older, simply because they're being replaced by new fans at slower and slower rates. So the same product that largely caters to older/existing fans is, from a marketing standpoint, a dead end proposition; you can't really sell new DVD sets of Star Trek TNG or new Blu Ray releases of Wrath of Khan to people who already bought them twice and don't really need another one. So the existing/old fanbase simply cannot sustain the kind of demand necessary to make Star Trek profitable. Therefore, the studio must target a NEW audience that is not completely enamored with the conventions of old.

The existing fans are not going to like these changes. But then, they weren't going to like ANY changes at all; more importantly, they weren't going to buy any new Star Trek media or merchandise, because they already HAVE everything that's available. So the worst case scenario here vis a vis the existing fanbase is that they all hate it and refuse to pay for it -- which was pretty much going to happen anyway -- and the studio attracts NEW fans who like the new version as well as the old fans liked theirs. The best case scenario -- the one we're basically seeing -- is the old fans hate it but watch it anyway because it's Star Trek and even pay extra money for the privilege of watching it just so they can hate on it. In that case, too, the studio wins.

But us thirtysomethings with kids to indoctrinate, incomes to spend on merchandise...and a proven history of buying much plastic tat and video games...may have come in around the Movies and TNG eras. One of which, DSC is almost diametrically opposed to it seems at times.
As the father of an eight year old boy, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that trying to indoctrinate a little kid into the Cult of Star Trek using TNG episodes is probably the dumbest idea you can possibly have. It MIGHT work if you pick out a couple of its really exciting episodes -- Best of Both Worlds or Redemption or even Descent -- but TNG as a whole is too preachy and somber for kids to really get into.

Which is pretty much why the only Star Trek my son ever willingly watches is Star Trek 09 and STID (he's taken a liking to STB lately too). I couldn't PAY him to watch Enterprise -- and I've actually tried.

Discovery is following the pattern of ST09 and STID. They've calculated, correctly, that this is a more modern approach that will resonate with a broader audience than people who got used to the more subdued approach of TNG+. And on top of that, they're trying to compete for marketshare with Star Wars and the MCU, both of which are CRUSHING Star Trek pretty much across the board both in terms of revenue and in attracting new fans.

So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
 
I also haven't been caught up in the klingon designs.
The first fleet wasn't memorable, nothing really stood out and caught my eye.
When I heard "D7", I was excited and leaned into my screen but it was not a D7 I recognized.
That is an iconic ship that I love, but these designs leave a lot to be desired.
 
As for 'shelf-life'...seriously? There are a very few TV series still talked about 50+ years after they were created
That's kind of my point. Comparing Discovery to TOS would be very much like comparing Farscape to Buck Rogers in the 25th century (imagine, for a moment, that Farscape was meant to be a reboot of Buck Rogers, as it easily could be).

Hell, even the direct comparisons between classic and new Battlestar Galactica ceased to be relevant pretty quickly. The new series eventually grew out of the shadow of the old and reached a point where it could be judged entirely on its own merits, with its own distinct fanbase that only partially overlapped with fans of the original.

Ultimately, trying to directly replicate BSG-classic would have been a loosing proposition. They took it, instead, in a radical new direction and tried to chase the untapped marketshare of "Not actually fans yet" and it worked. CBS is trying to do that now with Discovery; it probably won't work as well with the All Access paywall in place, but they certainly have the right idea.

If there's ONE franchise that's had a LONG shelf life it's Star Trek AS a franchise and TOS in particular
First of all, when I speak of Star Trek's limited "shelf life" I'm talking about the ability of the show to retain viewers and ratings over the long term, either in syndication or in the release of new episodes. That is to say, Trek series tend to go stale much faster than other properties. Partially this is because of an inability to "keep fresh" with new ideas and concepts, but mostly it's because a the MAJORITY of available Star Trek media is PAST material, rather than current or future material. To some extent, this is a feature of TV series in general: you can only get away with using the same basic story/set/design elements so many times before you use them up and people get sick of seeing them. Feature films do not really have this problem...

And yet, you just named three shows off the top of your head that already fit the bill, and you even overlooked many shows and IPs that DO. Mission Impossible, Transformers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Pokemon, Macross, the Simpsons and Doctor Who, all of which continue to produce new series, movies and media on a fairly regular basis. They recycle old elements, sure, but they also introduce NEW ones fairly regularly, new styles of filming, new themes and new directions, and so on. And this for shows that have been on the air pretty much continuously in one form or another for twenty, thirty, even forty years.

How do they manage to pull this off? Well, in some cases, it's because of their format and storytelling mechanism make it really easy to totally reinvent themselves from one iteration to the next. Doctor Who, for example, is predicated on the idea that literally ANYTHING can change, so they have a fully integrated, fully in-universe reboot function ready made. Macross ended its first series with the (some might say ingenious) plot device and sending out a shit ton of colony ships all over the galaxy, so each successive macross series basically takes place in a whole new star system with a whole new cast of characters facing a whole new threat or a whole new KIND of threat; they don't have to worry about reboots, because if they write themselves into a corner or do something stupid (e.g. the entirety of Macross 7) they can just set the new series in a different colony 60,000 light years away and mutter "Let's never speak of this again."

Other shows do it by simply not giving a shit about continuity. TMNT basically does a full reboot every five years or so, and Pokemon features teenaged characters that by all rights should be grandparents by now.

Star Trek series have, in the past, had a tendency to grow stale after just a handful of seasons. It seems this is owed to the fact that its producers have always been a little reluctant to try new things, and the new things they DID try were usually just retreads of old things (Enterprise is by far the worst culprit of this).

Yes, Star Wars is another franchise that will last and be retooled and rebooted and milked for everything Disney can get from it
Star Wars has never been rebooted. Not even VISUALLY. Think about that for a minute: the first cinematic treatment of Star Trek had to completely revise ALL of its existing visual elements in order to adapt the series to the big screen. TOS, in other words, had ALREADY gone past its shelf life and it was time to try something newer, bigger, more ambitious in order to keep Star Trek relevant. The changes they made in the first six films accomplished that... then the TNG films came out, and suddenly we found ourselves watching what were essentially feature length TV episodes on massively inflated budgets.

How does Star Wars manage to get away with using the same set pieces and the same ship design forty years later while Star Trek had to completely reinvent itself after only ten? It's because Star Trek series produce alot more HOURS of filmed material than feature films do. The pressure to stay fresh and come up with something NEW is that much higher for a series than it is for a film.

All of that being said: the worst thing a television franchise can do is try to run back to something it already did in the past. People don't watch new episodes to see something they've already seen in the past, they watch new episodes to see something NEW. When you start repeating what's already been done before, or doing new things in an old/predictable way, you loose your viewers. At that point you either change directions and do something new, or you double down on what you're already doing and accept eventual cancellation.
 
Start how many of us started. Star Trek II and III with episodes of TOS for context.
Amazingly, we now get to Start with ST09 and STID with Wrath of Khan and and Search for Spock for context. Which is, I don't mind saying, eight hours of cinematic awesomeness.
 
Never said everyone came through TOS. But if the franchise doesn't attract new fans, how long until the majority of them ARE 40 plus? That's not a rhetorical question, that's just a function of MATH.

As a function of population growth, if the rate of new fan creation does not exceed the average birthrate in a given country, then the average age of those fans is going to increase over time. This is essentially what's started to happen to Star Trek over time; its fans are ON AVERAGE getting older, simply because they're being replaced by new fans at slower and slower rates. So the same product that largely caters to older/existing fans is, from a marketing standpoint, a dead end proposition; you can't really sell new DVD sets of Star Trek TNG or new Blu Ray releases of Wrath of Khan to people who already bought them twice and don't really need another one. So the existing/old fanbase simply cannot sustain the kind of demand necessary to make Star Trek profitable. Therefore, the studio must target a NEW audience that is not completely enamored with the conventions of old.

The existing fans are not going to like these changes. But then, they weren't going to like ANY changes at all; more importantly, they weren't going to buy any new Star Trek media or merchandise, because they already HAVE everything that's available. So the worst case scenario here vis a vis the existing fanbase is that they all hate it and refuse to pay for it -- which was pretty much going to happen anyway -- and the studio attracts NEW fans who like the new version as well as the old fans liked theirs. The best case scenario -- the one we're basically seeing -- is the old fans hate it but watch it anyway because it's Star Trek and even pay extra money for the privilege of watching it just so they can hate on it. In that case, too, the studio wins.


As the father of an eight year old boy, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that trying to indoctrinate a little kid into the Cult of Star Trek using TNG episodes is probably the dumbest idea you can possibly have. It MIGHT work if you pick out a couple of its really exciting episodes -- Best of Both Worlds or Redemption or even Descent -- but TNG as a whole is too preachy and somber for kids to really get into.

Which is pretty much why the only Star Trek my son ever willingly watches is Star Trek 09 and STID (he's taken a liking to STB lately too). I couldn't PAY him to watch Enterprise -- and I've actually tried.

Discovery is following the pattern of ST09 and STID. They've calculated, correctly, that this is a more modern approach that will resonate with a broader audience than people who got used to the more subdued approach of TNG+. And on top of that, they're trying to compete for marketshare with Star Wars and the MCU, both of which are CRUSHING Star Trek pretty much across the board both in terms of revenue and in attracting new fans.

So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Though I am not literally indoctrinating my little one (that was tongue in cheek and implies intent) you are sadly mistaken.
Firstly, we tend to end up watching stuff our parents watch, so really, it’s whatever Trek we saw our parents watching, if we then take a liking to it. Or it’s whatever was being repeated on TV.
My little one is 6....so that’s the HD t g Re masters being shown at dinner time on SyFy here when he was smaller, or him dozing in his cot to the Ds9 music on the DVD menu as I was watching through when he was tiny. Then along comes the starship collection, and by that time he a,ready loves the ships, so he has a couple to play with...by age 4 he thinks Voyager is awesome, even though it’s not really my cup of tea at that point (he converted me, once I caught up with the episodes I drifted away from in my early twenties, I found it to be one of my favourites too.) and likes poring over my old books (fortunately I have the old pop up book for a start.) He Re-enacts the opening flybys to TNG with his toys (and my older ones) and builds recognisable Starfleet ships with construction toys. Skip forwards to now and he’s asking me how to spell Roche Limit out of the blue, because he is now fascinated with astrophysics (age 6) and greeted the news of Halmea (I think that’s how it’s spelled...it wasn’t exactly on my radar when I learnt about the solar system, so it’s something I learn about through his fascination) having Rings with as much excitement as I did discovering there would be a new cartoon series at his age.
Don’t forget TNG, DS9 and VOY all had child characters.

So...basically...he came to Trek much earlier than I did, in the same way I did. Through liking something his parents did. I curate stuff so he doesn’t see anything unsuitable. Which means that DSC simply doesn’t get watched. What’s the point? It’s serialised, so he can’t follow the story and skip the more violent episodes.
Now...here’s the rub. He briefly like Doctor Who, same as I did at his age...but the episodes became seriously unsuitable around the time Peter Capaldi came in as Doctor. So...he drifted away from it.
He looked forward to discovery with me, we watched the trailers together coming to launch...he too wasn’t sure about the ships design...and...now he can’t watch it, and isn’t interested in it, because some things put him off, and he knows it’s too violent for him (too high a PEGI as we say here.) and even having the story related to him (as I did with TWOK and any unsuitable Trek.) makes him less interested. Fortunately, we have enough old Trek to be getting on with, and he’s got me into TAS even if I have to watch Practical Joker on loop. (My fandom waned in my late teens early twenties, Trek became background and my stuff was packed away...little one has dragged me back to the Trek faith. Funny that. )

So...about that new fan thing....I sure hope there are some teenagers or twenty somethings coming in through DSC, cos it’s not getting new fans in the way it did when I became one.
Oh..and if someone whose age is still in single digits think a Mushroom Drive is a bit silly, it probably is.

And for families where grandad built an enterprise when he was a boy, and daddy did when he was a boy, and now...well. Even if the Discovery had a model kit, he wouldn’t be interested. Because it isn’t his Trek.
DSC is for older audiences, and is aimed at thirty or forty something TOS fans.....
 
Never said everyone came through TOS. But if the franchise doesn't attract new fans, how long until the majority of them ARE 40 plus? That's not a rhetorical question, that's just a function of MATH.

As a function of population growth, if the rate of new fan creation does not exceed the average birthrate in a given country, then the average age of those fans is going to increase over time. This is essentially what's started to happen to Star Trek over time; its fans are ON AVERAGE getting older, simply because they're being replaced by new fans at slower and slower rates. So the same product that largely caters to older/existing fans is, from a marketing standpoint, a dead end proposition; you can't really sell new DVD sets of Star Trek TNG or new Blu Ray releases of Wrath of Khan to people who already bought them twice and don't really need another one. So the existing/old fanbase simply cannot sustain the kind of demand necessary to make Star Trek profitable. Therefore, the studio must target a NEW audience that is not completely enamored with the conventions of old.

The existing fans are not going to like these changes. But then, they weren't going to like ANY changes at all; more importantly, they weren't going to buy any new Star Trek media or merchandise, because they already HAVE everything that's available. So the worst case scenario here vis a vis the existing fanbase is that they all hate it and refuse to pay for it -- which was pretty much going to happen anyway -- and the studio attracts NEW fans who like the new version as well as the old fans liked theirs. The best case scenario -- the one we're basically seeing -- is the old fans hate it but watch it anyway because it's Star Trek and even pay extra money for the privilege of watching it just so they can hate on it. In that case, too, the studio wins.


As the father of an eight year old boy, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that trying to indoctrinate a little kid into the Cult of Star Trek using TNG episodes is probably the dumbest idea you can possibly have. It MIGHT work if you pick out a couple of its really exciting episodes -- Best of Both Worlds or Redemption or even Descent -- but TNG as a whole is too preachy and somber for kids to really get into.

Which is pretty much why the only Star Trek my son ever willingly watches is Star Trek 09 and STID (he's taken a liking to STB lately too). I couldn't PAY him to watch Enterprise -- and I've actually tried.

Discovery is following the pattern of ST09 and STID. They've calculated, correctly, that this is a more modern approach that will resonate with a broader audience than people who got used to the more subdued approach of TNG+. And on top of that, they're trying to compete for marketshare with Star Wars and the MCU, both of which are CRUSHING Star Trek pretty much across the board both in terms of revenue and in attracting new fans.

So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Oh..and function of Math...assuming ENT picked up a fan who was say...13, good average age for scifi fandom, and assuming none of the repeats or JJ films brought in any new fans..(which they did, obviously. I see teens playing STO) means there’s a good decade or two before you have to worry about the youngest Trek fans getting over that hill. I myself am not yet in my forties, yet had a TMP Spock action figure in the olden days.
Your logic is...imprecise.
 
This is a trek series done in 2017, of course the ships are NOT going to look like the TOS era. I personally would not want to see a long-neck D7 cruiser in DSC in this day and age. If you look back at ENT, the NX-01 looked more advanced than the TOS Enterprise.

The show is being reimagined while hopefully keeping in canon. I love Trek Literature and it's considered non-canon but I still love the books.
 
This is a trek series done in 2017, of course the ships are NOT going to look like the TOS era. I personally would not want to see a long-neck D7 cruiser in DSC in this day and age. If you look back at ENT, the NX-01 looked more advanced than the TOS Enterprise.

The show is being reimagined while hopefully keeping in canon. I love Trek Literature and it's considered non-canon but I still love the books.

The visuals that work best are the ones that look like they fit between ENT and TMP. TOS visuals are always an outlier, and need work to fit in with all th other hours of Trek, but it can be done. Usually, it’s about adding richer texture to the flats of TOS...better fabric, better paint, more subtle lighting (as shown with the enterprise in Ds9 and the interiors for the Defiant on ENT) and that’s what wasn’t remembered here with the Klingons in particular on DSC.
 
The visuals that work best are the ones that look like they fit between ENT and TMP. TOS visuals are always an outlier, and need work to fit in with all th other hours of Trek, but it can be done. Usually, it’s about adding richer texture to the flats of TOS...better fabric, better paint, more subtle lighting (as shown with the enterprise in Ds9 and the interiors for the Defiant on ENT) and that’s what wasn’t remembered here with the Klingons in particular on DSC.

None of this worked, it looked like a cheap, goofy fan film. The ship shapes do not work at all, not even slightly
 
Never said everyone came through TOS. But if the franchise doesn't attract new fans, how long until the majority of them ARE 40 plus? That's not a rhetorical question, that's just a function of MATH.

As a function of population growth, if the rate of new fan creation does not exceed the average birthrate in a given country, then the average age of those fans is going to increase over time. This is essentially what's started to happen to Star Trek over time; its fans are ON AVERAGE getting older, simply because they're being replaced by new fans at slower and slower rates. So the same product that largely caters to older/existing fans is, from a marketing standpoint, a dead end proposition; you can't really sell new DVD sets of Star Trek TNG or new Blu Ray releases of Wrath of Khan to people who already bought them twice and don't really need another one. So the existing/old fanbase simply cannot sustain the kind of demand necessary to make Star Trek profitable. Therefore, the studio must target a NEW audience that is not completely enamored with the conventions of old.

The existing fans are not going to like these changes. But then, they weren't going to like ANY changes at all; more importantly, they weren't going to buy any new Star Trek media or merchandise, because they already HAVE everything that's available. So the worst case scenario here vis a vis the existing fanbase is that they all hate it and refuse to pay for it -- which was pretty much going to happen anyway -- and the studio attracts NEW fans who like the new version as well as the old fans liked theirs. The best case scenario -- the one we're basically seeing -- is the old fans hate it but watch it anyway because it's Star Trek and even pay extra money for the privilege of watching it just so they can hate on it. In that case, too, the studio wins.


As the father of an eight year old boy, I can tell you in no uncertain terms that trying to indoctrinate a little kid into the Cult of Star Trek using TNG episodes is probably the dumbest idea you can possibly have. It MIGHT work if you pick out a couple of its really exciting episodes -- Best of Both Worlds or Redemption or even Descent -- but TNG as a whole is too preachy and somber for kids to really get into.

Which is pretty much why the only Star Trek my son ever willingly watches is Star Trek 09 and STID (he's taken a liking to STB lately too). I couldn't PAY him to watch Enterprise -- and I've actually tried.

Discovery is following the pattern of ST09 and STID. They've calculated, correctly, that this is a more modern approach that will resonate with a broader audience than people who got used to the more subdued approach of TNG+. And on top of that, they're trying to compete for marketshare with Star Wars and the MCU, both of which are CRUSHING Star Trek pretty much across the board both in terms of revenue and in attracting new fans.

So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
You make some good points, but I really do not think your overall conclusions fit this situation here. Furthermore, it is a pretty preposterous claim that changing everything magically attracts new viewers. Things being good attracts new viewers!

When dealing with a franchise like this, the trick of course is how to attract new viewers without alienating the existing fans, and that certainly is a tricky situation. But let's limit it to this particular instance, this Klingon ship. Was this new design so amazing people were swooning over it? Was anyone super impressed by it, like they would not have been by, say ST09 version of the Klingon battle cruiser? I really doubt that. Furthermore, even if they for some reason, were they budgetary or creative, had to use this new design, what was gained by name dropping 'D7'? New viewers don't know what it means. They could have easily called it something else, and the people who care about the old designs could have continued to think they exist in the background, even if we never saw one in this show.

Another point I'd like to make, is that we all were new viewers at some point. And at least to me the continuity still mattered, it just worked backwards. I started with TNG, and when I later watched TOS and the original movies, it was really cool to see some of the same ships, aliens and other visual elements, as well as events and people referred to in TNG. When marketing this show there has been a lot of talk about how it is set ten years before TOS, and I'm absolutely sure there will be a lot of people who like Discovery and now will due that watch TOS the first time (they're both available on Netflix.) Wouldn't it be way cooler for them when they see 'Errand of Mercy' the first time to be able to recognise the Klingon ships there to be the same(ish) as the ones they saw on Discovery?
 
This is a trek series done in 2017, of course the ships are NOT going to look like the TOS era. I personally would not want to see a long-neck D7 cruiser in DSC in this day and age. If you look back at ENT, the NX-01 looked more advanced than the TOS Enterprise.

The show is being reimagined while hopefully keeping in canon. I love Trek Literature and it's considered non-canon but I still love the books.

But that's what a D7 looks like. I don't know what a long, slender neck on a spaceship has to do with how good or "modern" it looks. Plenty of spacecraft in current movies and television have long, narrow shapes to them. The Klingon design aesthetic isn't fixed in stone and their vessels have a variety to them over the centuries, but the D7 battle cruiser of this era has a specific appearance. "Trials and Tribbleations(DS9)" demonstrated you can upgrade the surface details and texture of the original late '60s shooting model and make it look incredible on screen. What's the big deal about the old Klingon design that makes it so archaic or bad?
 
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