Not that I've seen. Somebody should just to try to settle the issue.
"Choose Your Pain" Klingon ship (Visual spoilers?)
- Thread starter Cranston
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Not that I've seen. Somebody should just to try to settle the issue.
What's to settle? They reimagined the D7 just like they have every single other element of the Klingons.
Yes, I prefer the original over the DSC version. I prefer Michael Keaton's Batman suit over Ben Affleck's version, but it won't prevent me from enjoying (or not) Justice League next month.
Yes, I prefer the original over the DSC version. I prefer Michael Keaton's Batman suit over Ben Affleck's version, but it won't prevent me from enjoying (or not) Justice League next month.
Um....
Well, the script for "The Battle" has Geordi describing Stargazer as a "constitution class starship," which is what LeVar Burtain actually SAID before they changed it post-production. And there's also the literally dozens of times something was described as being "to starboard" but on screen appearing on the port side...
Which is exactly what Discovery seems to get wrong in this case too. What's the problem, again?
If they use the old guard's "tricks" then I would actually expect a measurable DROP in quality from Discovery.
More importantly, the VFX artists and the writers have never, repeat, NEVER been on the same page about any of this. The most obvious example is the effects shots of weapons being fired from starships; between the Romulan warbird and the phaser-torpedo inversion in "Darmok," all the way to the total special effects clusterfuck that was DS9's defenses in "Way of the Warrior," it's clear that the VFX teams have never made any serious effort to follow cues from the script or the technical designers except in very broad strikes.
This is even less likely. Special effects in television is all about visual impact, not script consistency. The Rule of Cool will trump script cues 90% of the time, and in ANY contradiction between what looks better and what the script actually calls for, the FX artists will invariably go with the former.
Even hard scifi shows like "The Expanse" have this problem. Both the novel description and even the filming script for the Battle of Thoth Station depict the ships battling at distances of hundreds of kilometers; in the final fight with the stealth ship, Rocinante would have positioned itself SEVERAL kilometers behind the ring while constantly maneuvering to keep the station between itself and the stealth ship (which was bigger, slower, and struggling badly to get around it). The very last shot has Alex pull a high-G maneuver and shoot THROUGH the ring to nail the asteroid gun and then his "surprise, asshole!" comes right as the stealth ship -- which had decided to do the same thing and this prevent Rocinante from using the ring as cover -- gets a facefull of cannon fire. What they filmed INSTEAD was completely different, because they figured out very early that the intended shots were visually underwhelming and hard to understand, so rather than trading fire across hundreds of kilometers, they have Roci and the stealth ship trading machiengun fire at a range of about 60 meters.
This for one of the most impeccably conceived and carefully developed science fiction franchises on television today: The Rule of Cool trumps script logic EVERY TIME.
Television is a visual medium. The only time the visuals are consistent with the story is when you're reading a book.
Um....
Which exactly was in the script! Romulans, using klingon designs...
So it was correct in the way it aired? I fail to see the mistake here?
So, you're counting the number of mistakes in 700+ hours of television, which mostly pile up to a few swapped lighning effects, to very obvious storytelling errors in the first 5 hours of DIS?
Uh, no. There's a difference between to exxagerate effects (make starships more closer, bigger 'splosions) and clear continuity errors.
DIS so far has quite a few continuity errors in it's vfx. Which is something that is kind of expected in a show with such a troubled early production. So it's most likely something that will get better the longer the show is on air, and the smoother the production process becomes.
It's just something that's noticeable. Comparable maybe to how unwell the original TNG uniforms in the first season fitted.
Because the script called for Romulan ships and the VFX department failed to deliver. That's literally the exact opposite of what you're describing; they had to adjust the SCRIPT to match the EFFECTS.
That's a thing that's happened multiple times on Star Trek, adapting the script to the VFX shots (and it doesn't always or even usually happen that way). The reverse almost NEVER happens; VFX is almost never adjusted to match the script.
What "obvious storytelling error" are you talking about other than the distances of the Klingon ships being inconsistent with dialog?
None that I'm aware of. Five episodes in, it's actually been more consistent than TNG and Enterprise (at least the shuttlecraft exteriors actually match the interiors).
If you're complaining about the look of the D7 or the quoted distances of the ships, then that's just nitpicking. A continuity error is when you say something is red when it is actually blue or when you say something is to port when it is actually starboard. Discovery has relatively few of those.
Naw, man. In the end, the dialogue (script) and the vfx (visuals) were in sync. That's the point. How they got there is not important. Important is, that the storytelling and the visuals were coherent with each other.
No, I wasn't talking about the distances. I'm very forgiving with errors in this regard. I was talking about what I described here:
Those are the instances were storytelling and what is presented on screen doesn't match.
It's nothing very crucial. It's kinda' comparable with the Ent-D firing phasers from their photon torpedoe bay. It's just some production errors to nitpick about.
And it might be an explanation for why they re-used a klingon background CGI-model for the D7. This is just personal speculation though.
It is not "nitpicking" to point out an obvious falsehood.
The simple fact is, everyone has long known what D7s looked like before this episode came along. We were shown a vessel which was claimed to be a D7, but obviously wasn't. To point that out and ask for an explanation, is not nitpicking.
The simple fact is, everyone has long known what D7s looked like before this episode came along. We were shown a vessel which was claimed to be a D7, but obviously wasn't. To point that out and ask for an explanation, is not nitpicking.
Did you watch the episode with the volume turned off or something? The shocking thing about the destruction of the Europa was that it was rammed by a GIANT INVISIBLE STARSHIP. That's kind of a big thing, and is exactly what T'kuvma was going for in terms of shock value.
As for the others... I've had to ask this question of others and now I'm asking you: are ALL of your complaints this asinine? Because you appear to be trying EXTRA HARD to find something nitpick worthy.
The explanation for that has been known for years: the more detailed model wasn't available (for whatever reason) so they used what they had. Same reason they used that very same model in "Unexpected" and then never showed it again for the rest of the series.
But it is the D7, they gave You and explination when they named it on screen. In setting, it looks like this now. They do bot need some wacky story for why they changed a design, thdy simply let you know this was now the D7. That is all that is needed.
You do not have to like it, but it is the D7.
That's a "no" on both counts.
Ships don't just change configurations at random. If this show was a reboot, that'd be one thing. But it isn't, so it's not unreasonable to expect at least some degree of consistency.
Put it this way: If a character appeared in a DSC episode claiming to be Andorian, but looked like a bouncing red ball, you'd balk at that, wouldn't you? Because everyone knows what Andorians look like, and if there's a disconnect, it's right to question it. Same story here.
Naw, I was talking about the reaction to the Europa overloading their warp core and self-destruct. That happened back-to-back. But the destruction of the entire Federation fleet is something that should be mentioned on-screen, don't'ya think? So I guess this wasn't really in the script, except some vague "the klingons overpower them"-line, and the vfx-guys went way over board with it.
It IS nitpicking after all. That's what we do here. It's not like we're discussing serious things like torture and human rights in this little thread right here
I was talking about DIS here: The "D7" we saw in this episode was actually a re-use of one of the klingon background ships from the battle of the binary stars. The theory is, that the writers intended to have a more "classic" D7 appear in this episode, but for some real-world reasons (budget, time-constraint, like in ENT: "Unexpected") they ended up re-using one of their already existing CGI models, thus creating a continuity error. In this case: Giving a clearly different ship the designation "D7".
Or they lied about it not being a reboot.
Much apologizings if this seems like a stupid question, but...how can it be a budget choice to use one CGI model rather than another? Shouldn't it cost basically the same?
Especially since (I assume) there is a CGI model of the real D7 stored somewhere, ready for use as needed. Unless the model was lost somehow, like the Norway class after ST:FC.
Especially since (I assume) there is a CGI model of the real D7 stored somewhere, ready for use as needed. Unless the model was lost somehow, like the Norway class after ST:FC.
Why reuse a model when they can make a new one?
The old model wouldn't be up to snuff.
But that's not what happened here. The claim was that an existing Klingon vessel from "Battle at the Binary Stars" was used instead.
Well, it's not like we saw the outside of the vessel for very long. It wouldn't be needed for complex maneuvers or anything like that.
Sure they do. ESPECIALLY when it comes to Klingons. This is why in "Yesterday's Enterprise" we have mention of "three K'vort class battlecruisers" only to have the Enterprise attacked by trio of inexplicably large Birds of Prey.
And then there's the Batris from "Heart of Glory," which later reappears as the freighter in Symbiosis, and yet again as the garbage scow in "Final Mission." There's the Maquis Raider which later shows up as the Federation Attack fighter; there's the Klingon Tanker which is literally just a D5 with some tanks attached to its belly;
I wouldn't be so sure.
The ship did not change in setting. They always looked like this. You do not have to like it, but this is the D7
But the thing is, that's explainable. Just have the K'Vort be a larger version of the B'Rel. Both are birds of prey, just different sizes. And it's not like we had previously been shown a ship called K'Vort which loooked completely different than those ships...
That's also explainable - that there are certain (presumably civilian) ship designs which are in wide use among diffent alien races. But again, that isn't what happened here. This is a unique situation: we were shown a ship class which had the same NAME, but which LOOKED completely different. That is NOT easily explainable. It's a flat-out mistake. To point out obvious mistakes is not nitpicking.
Excuse me?
We've seen D7-class ships before. They did not look like that.The showrunners have already said so. That's good enough for me.
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