• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Discovery starship discussion [SPOILERS]

It is interesting to see how the ship prepares for battle. Much of the stuff may be specific to how to turn a "science vessel" into a combatant - perhaps without shutting down impulse drive and doubling the phaser output, the ship couldn't really hurt anybody?

On the other hand, Lorca has a very specific plan of action here. He doesn't intend to move at all, so diverting power this way sounds like a good idea. But is the hovering system, with the primitive-looking rockets on the underside, separate from impulse, that is, capable of giving the ship the hover without any help from impulse power and its possible mass-negating effects? Will impulse do any good close to the ground (cf. "The Siege")?

He probably doesn't want to fire torpedoes, either, as he wants to fight right above the mine that is falling to pieces already. But then he chooses big bombs as his weapon after all. Big enough to destroy shielded ships without actually impacting - so why no harm done to the installation below?

I gather the mines are very far away from the front lines, or else the Klingons would attempt capture instead of raiding. Generally, raiding behind enemy lines in force is easy in TNG, but only thanks to cloaking. In 2256, it should be unheard of... How did the Klingons manage to reach the place? By sacrificing major forces? Or by sneaking in with lots of those puny BoPs, of which only a handful survived?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Makes you wonder if that ship in Spacedock or the Qualor II facility were pre-spore versions of the Crossfield class, or close cousins.
 
Possibly post-Spore, as they already sport those modern and fashionable rounded nacelles...

Timo Saloniemi
 
- Sickbay! It looks to be a rather spartan affair, with only three (bio?)beds. Each one seems to have more functions than the average one we've seen though, as each might be equipped with its own "clamshell" scanner thingie that deploys from the wall, plus multiple articulation points that would let someone easily sit up in bed, or perhaps even have a seated position?

- In any case, three of Sickbay's walls do feature the "rabbits teeth" window forms, though none seem to be actual windows.

- Prompted to cause bodily harm to the tardigrade, Landry grabs an energy rifle from Lorca's collection. It's not Starfleet issue at all. One wonders if there was any thought that went into what sort of weapon it was. Landry obviously knew how to use it.

- At the inquest into Landry's death, will Lorca get any heat for playing his recording of miners suffering? It's a dramatic thing to do, but I wonder if Landry's actions could be considered carrying out orders, with or without undue influence by the officer that gave those orders.

- Seeing the hulk of the Shenzhou's bridge, it looks like the damaged areas we saw two weeks ago has carried over, most notably the large section of bulkhead that blew out on the starboard side, taking the communications and science (?) stations with it. However, the astrogation whatsit between the two forward consoles, seen missing after said blow-out, is magically back! I surmised that it had been removed so the holo-Admiral could easily navigate between them during shooting. Seems I was correct - arguably this set is a series of digital pictures of the un-exploded set that were touched up in post to look exploded (adding the missing bulkhead, frozen-looking stuff, and of course floating debris), and that someone just put the astrogator back thinking it should always have been there.

- Klingon space suits retract much like the Goa'uld and Jaffa's armor disappears in the various Stargate shows.. Given that we haven't seen ANY other Klingon space suits in the rest of the franchise, I don't see this as a canon problem. It IS cool that they have this advanced tech, even if it might be considered incongruous in this era - but it looks fine used in this show's context.

- The Shenzhou's engineering set is a redress of the transporter room. You can see the hanging rectangular shapes in the darkness beyond the core.

- So the Glenn's Engineering (Glengineering?) space didn't have a mushroomroom at all, which sorta explains how the away team ran right through where it should be, during their mad dash to the Glenn's lower Engineering deck. Still, it's an awfully big space to simply not have

- I understand that they split Stamets and Straal into two teams to work independently, but if the Glenn had basically solved the navigation problem, shouldn't this have been enough to share with the other team? The Glenn had been traveling many light years in single jumps, supposedly by using the bear in their care. It sounds to me like they'd had the breakthrough Starfleet was waiting for, why didn't they tell at least Discovery that they needed the extra tech AND the biological unit to use it?All the Discovery did was use what the Glenn had already come up with, only piecing the puzzle pieces together without adding in any of their own science.

- Battlestations! The closeup of the helm position, aside from showing a large and useless graphic of the ship's spinning sections, notably has a sort of impulse throttle control section where the crewperson can select a speed and then hit "engage", or manually ramp the speed up or down with sliding controls. At the top is a selction for "DRV A" and "DRV B" with the latter selected, possibly indicating the use of the spore drive for FTL but allowing Helm to select conventional warp drive as needed.

- Meanwhile, the Ops station literally features a global view of the situation, an overview of the remaining three Klingon ships, and also the DRV A/B thing.

- During Discovery's earlier drill, there's a sort of target reticule over the viewscreen that reads "Tactical Combat". Later, under black alert conditions above Corvan II, the same reticule reads "Tactical Stand By". What is this all about? What's the purpose of the reticule? It's not like Discovery or any starship has a weapons array that only fires directly forward such that the reticule would act as a crosshairs (which ARE projected on the other ships). Perhaps it's a dedicated portion of the HUD that would show Lorca more focused detail on what he wants to see? Or where certain targets are when they're not in his filed of view? When it reads "tactical stand by", they're deliberately holding fire - that might tie in as well.

- Is it just me, or is Lorca making the sign of the horns with his hands up and waiting for the cue to spore out? Message there? Leftover Malfoy DNA?

- After Discovery spores out, a gaggle of miners heads outside to see what happened. Unprotected. As flaming debris rains down around them. Maybe they were all concussed or overjoyed at not being dead and all (and someone DID shout "Evacuate!" in their last scene), but IMO this isn't the best time to stare at the night sky in awe.

- On returning to normal space at the end of the battle, Discovery's spinning section stops rotating in about a quarter turn. I do think that the amount of saucer that is actually spinning is pretty superficial - but while they certainly have fancy IDF fields and such, the quick stoppage suggest to me that there are NOT several decks of people whizzing around inside at every call to black alert.

- The Shenzhou crew manifest shows that Burnham attended the Vulcan Science Academy for the same amount of time as she'd have been in Starfleet Academy, as Georgiou's conveniently simultaneous display shows. She DID mention that her original intention was to join the Vulcan Expeditionary Group, suggesting that her time in the VSA could count as Starfleet equivalency, and all she'd have to do is pass the latter's exams to earn a commission. I'd imagine certain precedents would be in place from when Starfleet was first formed and presumably absorbed various members' existing forces into their ranks, including perhaps going as far back as T'Pol's time, or Spock, or that Constitution-class ship full of Vulcans that may even be tooling around in 2255.

- Lorca's lab features a glass floor that doesn't look like it leads outside, but that it covers up some sort of equipment which may deploy from the floor (or is a scanning array or something). Aside from being a definite problem to shoot around (see: Matt Smith's first TARDIS console room floor, which this strongly resembles), it was a clear set designer choice and an expensive addition to a set, so I wonder if it will have some use later down the line.

- Burnham is gifted her old Captain's telescope, presumably by Georgiou's estate. A couple of questions here... First off, people are evacuating the Shenzhou, and someone stops to grab THIS? I mean, it seems that the ready room is pretty bare when Voq is in there, and stuff including the Captain's desk, all her books and decorations, and all but one visible chair is missing (though the telescope's articulation frame IS still there, meaning someone carefully removed the 'scope). Lots of the stuff could have been vented into space - but SOMEONE thought it would be a good idea to grab this thing when going to their escape pod. I suppose that given the Shenzhou was dead in space at the time and presumably could not self destruct, they took a little time to strip anything of particular value, wipe the computer core, etc. before leaving. And yet, someone saw fit to conveniently leave behind a holo tablet with the ship's crew manifest...

- Second, how did the scope to get to Burnham in the first place? She's been on the ship for FOUR DAYS, and wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. Who knew to send it her, there? My only reasonable guess is that it was in the possession of Saru (who, heck, may have been the guy to swipe it from the ready room in the first place) and even if it was bequeathed to Burnham in Georgiou's will, he decided to keep it and left it at the storage "depot", the old softie. When Burnham gets added to the roster with a new position aboard the ship, the computer searched for all stuff related to her automatically, saw a sealed package in inventory under her name, and routed it to her quarters via message that Tilly caught. MAYBE it was already en route to her new place on Tellun and Discovery somehow intercepted it, but what would a prisoner need with a telescope? Or is the prison life in the Federation already like the New Zealand colony?

- The telescope container is biometrically-authenticated. However, it's not necessarily JUST fingerprints needed here, as Burnham's distal AND other phalanges from all four fingers cover the lit plate. Maybe it's just that Burnham touches these things more intimately.

What a ride this week! The Trekkiest Discovery yet. The first two episodes were jarring and a bit of a narrative misfire, but now that we're solidly into this series (and halfway through the originally-announced eight episodes planned to be aired), I think we're really getting somewhere. Can't wait 'till next episode, and more Klingons speaking English around their dentures. :P

Mark
 
Well, there were any number of starships at TBOTBS with those fancy, avant-garde squared-off nacelles.

Mark
 
- Prompted to cause bodily harm to the tardigrade, Landry grabs an energy rifle from Lorca's collection. It's not Starfleet issue at all. One wonders if there was any thought that went into what sort of weapon it was. Landry obviously knew how to use it.

Burnham recognized the collection as "some of the deadliest weapons in the galaxy". Has she traveled much? We see Klingon blades and this gun and perhaps a pair of others. And samurai swords, so Lorca doesn't exclusively study the UFP/Klingon conflict and its associated weapons. Unless Starfleet officers carry samurai swords as commonly as Klingons carry their blades, that is (which might well be true in light of TOS).

So no telling really whether that's a weapon built by the Feds and then ditched as too weapon-y, or an alien thing, or a gun from the future. But all gun interfaces in Trek seem intuitively clear to our heroes (even if they may cost a primitive kahn-ut-tu her life).

- At the inquest into Landry's death, will Lorca get any heat for playing his recording of miners suffering? It's a dramatic thing to do, but I wonder if Landry's actions could be considered carrying out orders, with or without undue influence by the officer that gave those orders.

What inquest? "She gave her life in pursuit of her duty" should cover it nicely, no matter whether the lady in question gets torn to shreds by a water bear, fried by a fellow demigod, transformed into a robot and then into noncorporeal being, or defects with a superman.

- Seeing the hulk of the Shenzhou's bridge...

...One wonders why the debris is there. The hole in the windows is very large, and the debris in very active motion. Thermodynamics should dictate that in six months, the debris would bump its way out and not back in.

- Klingon space suits retract much like the Goa'uld and Jaffa's armor disappears in the various Stargate shows.. Given that we haven't seen ANY other Klingon space suits in the rest of the franchise, I don't see this as a canon problem. It IS cool that they have this advanced tech, even if it might be considered incongruous in this era - but it looks fine used in this show's context.

Our heroes have hardsuits, tinfoil suits, life support forcefields and the occasional urge to do shirtsleeves spacewalks. I doubt anything about Klingon spacesuits could ever be declared "inconsistent" in comparison.

I do wonder if the retracting suit is their lightweight, low protection option, comparable to the Starfleet life support belt... In combat, they might don something heftier, and the thing worn by the previous Torchbearer might count as such.

- The Shenzhou's engineering set is a redress of the transporter room. You can see the hanging rectangular shapes in the darkness beyond the core.

Good eyes! Should we perhaps now assume that those shapes are the pre-DSC equivalent of the TOS red hexagon grilles, a type of (radiation?) protection found everywhere?

- So the Glenn's Engineering (Glengineering?) space didn't have a mushroomroom at all, which sorta explains how the away team ran right through where it should be, during their mad dash to the Glenn's lower Engineering deck. Still, it's an awfully big space to simply not have.

OTOH, it's an awfully weird space to have, when one looks at the walls, which don't show simple deck lines but rather a wildly undulating set of lines, windows, hatches, balconies, panels and whatnot, making anything like "deck count" impossible. Perhaps creating the space involved ripping out lots of stuff that really shouldn't be ripped out of this particular starship design at this particular spot?

- I understand that they split Stamets and Straal into two teams to work independently, but if the Glenn had basically solved the navigation problem, shouldn't this have been enough to share with the other team?

Perhaps Stamets might solve the problem better, if not corrupted by the first solution? For all we know, Starfleet has sixteen teams working on this (not all on ships of this type, and perhaps not on ships at all), and keeps most of them secret from each other for fear of cooperation and subsequent squandering of innovation potential.

- Battlestations! The closeup of the helm position, aside from showing a large and useless graphic of the ship's spinning sections

...Perhaps one would at a suitable stage of operations be able to see the exact geometry of this "cavitation" going on, and spot any asymmetries or other ship-shredding issues?

- During Discovery's earlier drill, there's a sort of target reticule over the viewscreen that reads "Tactical Combat". Later, under black alert conditions above Corvan II, the same reticule reads "Tactical Stand By". What is this all about?

Perhaps the thing Kirk refers to when calling "Tactical" on his screen? That is, if the thing is on "Combat", it shows reality augmented with Combat graphics. If it's on "Stand By", it shows plain old reality. If on Tactical Evasion, there are aids for stealth or dodging. Etc.

- Is it just me, or is Lorca making the sign of the horns with his hands up and waiting for the cue to spore out?

...I sort of got a generic "orchestra conductor" vibe out of it only.

- After Discovery spores out, a gaggle of miners heads outside to see what happened. Unprotected. As flaming debris rains down around them. Maybe they were all concussed or overjoyed at not being dead and all (and someone DID shout "Evacuate!" in their last scene), but IMO this isn't the best time to stare at the night sky in awe.

Or then their mine, which was about to collapse from Klingon bombardment, did collapse from Lorca's bombardment, and they had no option but to rush out?

I'd imagine certain precedents would be in place from when Starfleet was first formed and presumably absorbed various members' existing forces into their ranks, including perhaps going as far back as T'Pol's time, or Spock, or that Constitution-class ship full of Vulcans that may even be tooling around in 2255.

Each individual member military would probably have its own traditions going even farther back. I mean, Benedict Arnold found work easily enough...

First off, people are evacuating the Shenzhou, and someone stops to grab THIS? [..] I suppose that given the Shenzhou was dead in space at the time and presumably could not self destruct, they took a little time to strip anything of particular value

Or then they grabbed something of emotional value, like people leaving their homes to an advancing wall of fire or water do. The telescope would be an obvious thing for Saru to grab; the rest would just float out on its own eventually.

I don't think the crew would have attempted to destroy the ship. I mean, Starfleet never does, except if they think this will allow them to directly hurt the enemy. Supposedly, there's nothing of worth left to salvage in an abandoned ship as a first approximation.

- Second, how did the scope to get to Burnham in the first place?

I'd think it would be strictly against regs to send it to her in the jail, and it's not as if she's getting out like, well, ever - so the question then becomes, who's gonna keep it?

Saru could be sending it to Burnham from two decks up, suitably obfuscating the origin. Or Saru could be informing the Department of Withheld Mementos, which would make the delivery swifty enough (cf. the swiftness of delivering Burnham). But Lorca could be informing them, too - and possibly several days in advance of the "unexpected occurrence" that brought Burnham to his ship, at that.

Or is the prison life in the Federation already like the New Zealand colony?

It's around this time that Dr. Adams' work is starting to bear fruit, but ten years later McCoy still thinks penal colonies are hellholes and Kirk has to tell him otherwise. Or at least Kirk thinks McCoy thinks that. I very much think the primary purpose of imprisonment at that day and age still remains that of freedom-deprivation torture, and it wouldn't work unless the soft cushions in the comfy chair did have all the fillings lumped in one end.

Timo Saloniemi
 
...With registries lower than 1701, so supposedly they're a thing of the past. Perhaps this war will prune out the old stuff, leaving the cylinder nacelles dominant?

Timo Saloniemi
 
- Most detailed replicator sequence ever. So THAT's what all the sparking is like up close.
I saw a clip of that on youtube before they pulled it down. That's what made me finally cave and subscribe to CBS all access lol.

- How long has Lorca been in command of Discovery? The battle drills suggest that his efforts at training the crew of "wide-eyed explorers" for battle is a recent thing, as he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy to be lax in that department simply because it's peacetime. By the same token, if Starfleet does consider Discovery to be the tip of the spear in the war against the Klingons, shouldn't they send more than a battle-hardened Captain (and maybe tactical officer) over there to make it so? There's (most of?) a whole deck down there that can house more soldier-type officers.
I don't know that Starfleet HAS a battle-hardened captain in the fleet at this point. They've been at peace for a really long time.

I also am 99% sure that Lorca is working for Section 31 and therefore his battle skills aren't nearly as important as his capacity to develop and/or deploy some sort of terrible superweapon that will inevitably backfire.
 
Has Starfleet been in peace? Or is that just the Klingons?

Timo Saloniemi
Klingons are NEVER at peace. Especially with each other.

And Starfleet clearly has. Georgiou is approaching the Klingons from a Picardian "We're explorers, we mean you no harm!" posture and her crew seems genuinely shocked that someone is actually firing at them. All implications are that the fighting with the Klingons is the most amount of violence the Federation has seen in at least a generation or two.
 
The TOS Enterprise's registry was NCC-1701. The USS Constellation's registry was NCC-1017. But they're the same class. So numbers are no indication of age.
It's long been speculated that the Constellation was, in fact, much older that the Enterprise and got a Consitution-like refit that made it close to looking like a Connie, but not quite. This is analogous to the way that the original 1701 was refit in TMP but the 1701-A was a whole new build based loosely on the refit design. This conveniently explained how the Constellation (represented by an original AMT model kit and not the main filming miniature) looked a bit different in proportion and shape than the Enterprise. This, of course, changed when they did the remastered version.
 
I am erring on the side of caution for now with ship sizes as we may see one of the Constitution class ships and if the Discovery and Shenzou are bigger what will that mean for the Enterprise if it is encountered as this is supposed to be prime timeline.
Assuming we ever DO see a Constitution class starship, it's fairly unlikely they'll use the vintage TOS design at this point. They have completely redesigned every other aspect 23rd century technology and, despite stylistic callbacks and appearances, are making NO attempt at what some of the fans call "visual continuity."

Which means that if or when we see a Constitution class anywhere in this series, it won't look anything like the TOS version. And thus...

It would set off the whole reboot or no reboot discussion all over again.
... is exactly what would NOT happen, because at that point it would be clear that Discovery IS a reboot and not a prequel. At that point, there's no more need for debate, except to the extent that fans want to argue their own headcanon.

I myself like the idea of it being about the same overall size and volume as the Excelsior with the nacelles an additional length beyond that, other may (violently) disagree.
Because of the ship's power profile, it would only have similar size and volume as Excelsior if its total length (including nacelles) was in the 700 meter range. It's not nearly as "tall" as excelsior and its engineering section isn't quite as bulky.
 
Assuming we ever DO see a Constitution class starship, it's fairly unlikely they'll use the vintage TOS design at this point. They have completely redesigned every other aspect 23rd century technology and, despite stylistic callbacks and appearances, are making NO attempt at what some of the fans call "visual continuity."

Which means that if or when we see a Constitution class anywhere in this series, it won't look anything like the TOS version. And thus...


... is exactly what would NOT happen, because at that point it would be clear that Discovery IS a reboot and not a prequel. At that point, there's no more need for debate, except to the extent that fans want to argue their own headcanon.


Because of the ship's power profile, it would only have similar size and volume as Excelsior if its total length (including nacelles) was in the 700 meter range. It's not nearly as "tall" as excelsior and its engineering section isn't quite as bulky.
Yeah there will be changes if we do see a Constitution class as all, was taking a closer look at the Europa earlier to see roughly what size it is, once we know that it may give us an idea of what to expect if we do see the 1701 or a sister ship.

There was no need for a discussion about it when the films came out and we all know how that progressed, even after we knew that it was an alternate timeline and so changes were to be expected.

The saucer does look bigger than the TOS 1701 but not as large as the new films 1701, I have seen various diagrams online some saying the saucer and engineering section alone is 400m, others saying its 300m.

We shall see soon enough I am sure.
 
Why should DSC be any different from any of the other shows here, when it comes to showing Kirk's TOS ship "as is"?

TMP was a complete visual reboot just like DSC. TNG was a complete visual reboot just like DSC. ENT was a complete visual reboot just like DSC. The Abrams movies were a complete visual reboot just like DSC. Each chose to employ Kirk's ship "as is" (even if the latter ultimately left the bit on the cutting room floor - and even then the said latter made extensive use of the TOS aesthetique in other ways, showing that it found the 1960s ultra cool).

The only point in showing Kirk's TOS ship would be to take the viewers back to the 1960s. Changing the looks would just be an epic fail.

There's no precedent to changing the looks of Kirk's ship, while there's no aspect to DSC that doesn't have precedent in the previous spinnings-off of Star Trek. It's just the same old all over again. As usual.

Timo Saloniemi
 
If the Constellation is a modernization of an older type, it's rather interesting that her registry number would be neighboring that of the Discovery. What could those two classes possibly have in common, to serve as the basis of a rebuilding from one type to the other?

Well, Dan "MadKoiFisH" Uyeno provided the answer a few months ago...

Timo Saloniemi
 
But Picard, too, was a wartime captain. During his tenure (including some of the onscreen bits), the Federation was at open war with at least half a dozen other cultures before the Dominion knocked on the wormhole. Most of the enemies were characterized as "brutal", too.

Peace seems to be rare in the Federation, and a major anomaly in Kirk's time, with the man himself surprised that he got the chance to think of himself as "more an explorer nowadays"...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Why should DSC be any different from any of the other shows here, when it comes to showing Kirk's TOS ship "as is"?

TMP was a complete visual reboot just like DSC...
That's just it, TMP was MEANT as a visual reboot but it was not INTERPRETED that way. Later series tried to imply that the changes between TOS and TMP actually happened in universe when, at the time, TMP was meant to be seen as "What it really looked like all along, we just didn't have the budget to show you." But because of the timeline issues and outright nostalgia from the fans, that intent wound up getting contradicted years later.

Discovery is a visual reboot in the same sense as TMP, but it doesn't have the timeline issue, so anything we see must be interpretted as "What it always looked like" without the capacity for handwaving.

TNG was a complete visual reboot just like DSC.
No, TNG was a sequel. Not the same thing.

ENT was a complete visual reboot just like DSC.
No, Enterprise was a prequel. Not the same thing.

The Abrams movies were a complete visual reboot just like DSC.
No, the Kelvinverse movies were an EVERYTHING reboot. Not the same thing.

The only point in showing Kirk's TOS ship would be to take the viewers back to the 1960s. Changing the looks would just be an epic fail.
Actually, throwing in 1960s aesthetics at this point would be epic fail if they tried it. A constitution class, on the other hand, would be a nice artistic touch to update the original TOS design with modern flare and style like we've seen on discovery. They'd likely keep the exact same basic shape and design, but would fill it out with different console designs, chairs, set pieces, monitor placement, etc.

IOW, they'd do exactly what TMP and later TFF did. The only difference in this case is that fans wouldn't be able to pretend that the new design was some kind of technical upgrade that's supposed to make sense IN UNIVERSE.

There's no precedent to changing the looks of Kirk's ship
There's no precedent for a Star Trek television series set in the mid 23rd century that
1) Isn't TOS
2) Wasn't operating on a shoestring budget
3) Was actually meant to be part of a broader continuity

The TOS design aesthetic simply hasn't aged well enough for it to be included in future productions, nor was it MEANT to age all that well, which is why everyone ignores it in prequels, sequels and reboots. The only time they ever faithfully reproduced those old sets and designs was in a cute nostalgia episode on a series that was canceled literally one episode later. It's been 50 years since that aesthetic actually worked on television; Discovery has RADICALLY departed from it and is not being even a little bit shy about it. So IF they show us a Constitution class, it will be the DISCOVERY version of the Constitution class.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top