THE ORVILLE - S1, E5: "PRIA"

[O'Dib]

It's weird Al Jankovic doing a cover

 

[Tarek71]

I loved it. The practical joke was epic. Charlize was good. Not every joke works, but Ive never seen a comedy where every joke works. I knew they were going to do time travel at some point, and probably will again. It would have better to have Pria around as a recurring troublemaker than to say she was erased, but I don't know what the availability of Charlize was. It may be that this was a one-off no matter what.

 

[RJDiogenes]

The most important thing Star Trek lost with Roddenberry's death was its moral compass. While most of the episodes of the Berman-era shows did stick to a generally humanist viewpoint, some became muddled with truly misguided worldviews, born either of bad writing that didn't understand the implications of its cheap drama (Berman), or actual anti-rational cynicism (Moore et al).

As much as I love Trek (and don't find it bland), I have to agree with this. The Prime Directive of the TOS Era and the TNG Era were two entirely different things. The Prime Directive of the TOS Era was "Don't give a gun to ten year olds," and the Prime Directive of the TNG Era was "Uatu says you're outta luck."

 

[Noname Given]

IDK - I liked the TNG version of this episode better:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Matter_of_Time_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

 

[Mudd]

I liked the TNG version so much that after reading the synopsis i still don't remember it. The plots aren't similar though, except Time Travel.

 

[unigolyn]

As much as I love Trek (and don't find it bland), I have to agree with this. The Prime Directive of the TOS Era and the TNG Era were two entirely different things. The Prime Directive of the TOS Era was "Don't give a gun to ten year olds," and the Prime Directive of the TNG Era was "Uatu says you're outta luck."

I guess some writers found the "Don't give a gun to ten year olds" version to be overly paternalistic and morphed it to a more palatable form of moral relativism. Of course they still paid lip service to consequentialism of the TOS PD, while acting like complete lunatics:

PICARD: It is no longer a matter of how wrong Data was, or why he did it. The dilemma exists. We have to discuss the options. And please talk freely.
WORF: There are no options. The Prime Directive is not a matter of degrees. It is an absolute.
PULASKI: I have a problem with that kind of rigidity. It seems callous and even a little cowardly.
PICARD: Doctor, I'm sure that is not what the Lieutenant meant, but in a situation like this, we have to be cautious. What we do today may profoundly affect upon the future. If we could see every possible outcome
RIKER: We'd be gods, which we're not. If there is a cosmic plan, is it not the height of hubris to think that we can, or should, interfere?
LAFORGE: So what are you saying? That the Dremans are fated to die?
RIKER: I think that's an option we should be considering.
LAFORGE: Consider it considered, and rejected.
TROI: If there is a cosmic plan, are we not a part of it? Our presence at this place at this moment in time could be a part of that fate.
LAFORGE: Right, and it could be part of that plan that we interfere.
RIKER: Well that eliminates the possibility of fate.
DATA: But Commander, the Dremans are not a subject for philosophical debate. They are a people.
PICARD: So we make an exception in the deaths of millions.
PULASKI: Yes.
PICARD: And is it the same situation if it's an epidemic, and not a geological calamity?
PULASKI: Absolutely.
PICARD: How about a war? If generations of conflict is killing millions, do we interfere? Ah, well, now we're all a little less secure in our moral certitude. And what if it's not just killings. If an oppressive government is enslaving millions? You see, the Prime Directive has many different functions, not the least of which is to protect us. To prevent us from allowing our emotions to overwhelm our judgement.
​

Oh look, an egregiously stupid sorites fallacy. This makes as much sense as arguing against donating blood to a dying person because blood leads to corneas and kidneys and eventually we'd just all kill ourselves to donate all our organs. Picard very reluctantly agrees to save these people because of a damn technicality. If the Enterprise's computer had hung up on Sarjenka a little bit quicker, she'd be volcano food.

Q save us from ever having our fate decided by such unsubtle and inhuman bureaucrats.

In TOS, Spock might offer such an argument as a cold and logical interpretation of the PD, and McCoy would call him a heartless hobgoblin and Kirk would already be instructing Scotty to fix the tectonic instability and beaming down to save a buxom native girl from being sacrificed to the angry volcano gods.

And of course Picard might do the same in a different episode, because they were nothing if not inconsistent on this stuff.

 

[unigolyn]

I liked the TNG version so much that after reading the synopsis i still don't remember it. The plots aren't similar though, except Time Travel.

I just rewatched S5 of TNG and I don't remember it. And you're right, reading the synopsis does nothing to jog my memory.

 

[fireproof78]

It's weird Al Jankovic doing a cover

Sorry, this will bother me. It's "Yankovic."

Also, I don't get the cover comparison. Orville certainly hits on the some of the trappings of Star Trek, but that's about it. The characters and approach feel very different, and its appeal is greater than just nostalgic beats.

 

[McDuff]

I liked the TNG version so much that after reading the synopsis i still don't remember it.

I just rewatched S5 of TNG and I don't remember it. And you're right, reading the synopsis does nothing to jog my memory.

It's normal nobody's remembering, everything reset at the end, like nothing happened. It was another timeline.

 

[Tesophius]

4/5 Very impressive episode, solid humor and a paradox that makes you think. I'm glad that new Star Trek is back

So far my favorite characters are Alara, Yaphit and Data. Worf was an interesting character in the sex change episode, but otherwise hasn't really brought anything to the show. Malloy is just very likable.

 

[Brennyren]

Still hoping for the episode where everybody else is captured or otherwise incapacitated and the ship must be saved by -- Malloy and LaMarr?!?

Clip from imaginary trailer in my head:

Mercer: It's all up to Gordon and John now.
Grayson: We are so screwed.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Yeah, that tracks with MacFarlane's writing. Even if we accept that's the case, I would think the mythological side of religious beliefs would still be studied by historians and philosophers even if they no longer practiced the actual religions. Also, if time travel is as common as Pria implied it is in the 29th century, colloquialisms of the past should be easy for anyone to look up, and thus she'd still know what the term "go to hell" meant.

Come on, it was just a gag. Mercer's trying to be curt, and tough, and his bravado is completely undercut by having to explain the insult. Let's not overthink.

But overthinking it is my favorite thing to do!

Pria's not an historian, she's a con artist. She wouldn't be familiar with religious references that would be obscure in her time. Also, unless she has a neural implant that feeds her data, she wouldn't have instantaneous access to any information she brought with her. Plus, how often do you bring up Hell in a conversation? It's just not something she'd need to know most of the time.

First, He's gotta at least try. It might be an easy door to open.
Second, the payoff will be that he will actually struggle to open a jar of pickles and Alara will go to help but he will open it himself.

I'm waiting for the episode where there's actually a jar of pickles, and Alara immediately says "I'll handle this!" and tries to open the jar, and it immediately explodes from the sheer force she exerts on it.

I watched both seasons of Legends of Tomorrow and am now completely immunized from trying to make sense of temporal paradoxes

Yeah, it's one of my guilty pleasure shows as well.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Not the twist I expected. I have to put some thought into the paradox created by the ending.

Maybe it's not completly done?

 

[BillJ]

It's normal nobody's remembering, everything reset at the end, like nothing happened. It was another timeline.

"A Matter of Time"? Matt Frewer gets locked up at the end for stealing stuff from the Enterprise. He was from the 22nd century and stole a future historians ship. He planned on selling the stuff he stole from the 24th century as his own inventions in the 22nd. His preprogrammed timeship leaves without him.

Not a great episode, but nothing was reset.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I think they are trying to make "open this jar of pickles" into a catchphrase.

I have to say, I am enjoying The Orville.

I've seen all the episodes, and really by comparison haven't bothered as much with Discovery. Not that I didn't like Discovery, it was ok, but Discovery requires more effort to watch, and Orville is easier.

That said, when I am watching The Orville, I feel like I am watching Star Trek, without the canon.

When comparing the two series, Orville just has a more Trekkish vibe. The jokes again aren't great, but they do get a laugh every now and then. I think the key is that they need to stop with 20th/21st century references, because I really don't think they will be watching Friends and Seinfield 400 years from now.

I think that the jokes should come when they need comic relief, which is not all the time.

For me, the best joke of the series to date was right after a massive serious moment. The Orville is in a battle. It's serious. It's tense. And LaMarr fires the shot that destroys the ship. The second the ship blows up, LaMarr pumps his fist and yells, "booyah! Yeah bitch!" Perfect timing.

Last night's episode was fun. I liked the idea of a time traveler from the future.

But the ending was a little weak. If The Orville destroys the wormhole, thus giving her no reason to come back in time, then shouldn't that create a paradox? If she doesn't go back in time, then she can't save them from destruction. If she can't save them from destruction, they die, and therefore can't destroy the wormhole, so she comes back in time.

Why are they alive? They didn't really do a good job with that paradox.

She lied about them being destroyed!

 

[Nakita Akita]

If it helps I notice that it comes to Hulu at 2:00 in the morning and I am in Oklahoma. So if you want to stay up late you could kind of catch it the same night. I noticed this because I sometimes stay up late and I noticed it.

Jason

I watch it on over the air free TV. On Fox channel.

 

[Nakita Akita]

The sexism in this episode was too cringe worthy for me. Pria's greeting in the engine room was pretty Harvey-Weinstein'esque. And if that extension was his genital, it was even more than sexual assault at the workplace. Wasnt funny to me and any female viewer who is a victim of sexual assault at the workplace couldnt laugh either, I am sure. Of course in the end you get the bitch-fight between two blondes.

That was Hollywood sexism at its finest in this episode. I dont care much for this one.

The green guy looks like green dog diarrhea.
It's sophomoric boy humor to "think" that something sticking out of a huge pile of green goop looks like a penis.

The ridiculous chick fight at the end was just throwback to all of the ridiculous crap on TV since whenever and STILL on today.

The show is mostly a comedy, if not entirely so. If you don't comprehend that, possibly you need to watch documentaries about oppression. Those are always most enjoyable.

 

[Nakita Akita]

The crew is watching an episode " Seinfeld" . . . on the bridge?

Certainly. They have to sit there, what, running diagnostics for 8 hours straight?
Boring!
They need something to pass the time!
Although, Seinfeld? Meh, of have brought a book.

 

[Phoenix219]

That's a strange episode to really like. You're not bothered by Phlox committing genocide through inaction because of an absurd misunderstanding of how evolution works? The very idea of a medical doctor saying "let nature take its course" is utterly beyond making sense. Not letting nature take its course is literally the purpose of his profession. If I was the captain of the NX-01, I would have asked Phlox to step out of the airlock and evolve resistance to vacuum or "let nature take its course", as supplying him with an artificial atmosphere in deep space was clearly in violation of his principles.

Dear Doctor was the culmination of all the stupid Prime Directive episodes where for cheap false profundity the writers had Picard or Janeway sentence entire civilizations to death for the sake of adhering to a pedantic reading of the rule (even though in other episodes they'd arbitrarily break it). In the case of Dear Doctor, they didn't even have to the "strict Prime Directive constructionist" justification to fall back on, so they actually tried to defend this moral abomination through argument, and the argument was mystical drivel of the highest order.

And then they try to have their cake and eat it too by having Archer object but respect Phlox's viewpoint because it's from a different culture. Usually when writers milk cheap drama out of a defense of moral relativism, they don't actually make the mistake of showing the really bad case studies (honor killings; ritual infanticide, etc.) because they'd clearly destroy the argument. But apparently Rick Berman (who insisted on this ending) thought a great case study of the enlightened position of moral relativism is literal genocide of a people begging for your help.

The most important thing Star Trek lost with Roddenberry's death was its moral compass. While most of the episodes of the Berman-era shows did stick to a generally humanist viewpoint, some became muddled with truly misguided worldviews, born either of bad writing that didn't understand the implications of its cheap drama (Berman), or actual anti-rational cynicism (Moore et al).

An actually great ENT episode is Cogenitor. It shows moral grey areas and the disastrous results of thoughtlessly applying your own values on a situation you don't understand, yet it never accepts that the Vissians treatment of cogenitors is morally blameless and shouldn't be rectified - just that Trip is not in any way equipped to do so. "About a Girl" did a similar thing so I'm confident Orville won't be going down the Dear Doctor path anytime soon.

Even worse was that the original ending did NOT have this issue, and would have ended with the Enterprise saving the day.... but they felt it would be too easy and common of an ending, and went for the shock value just for the sake of shock value. It would have much more interesting to have episodes where their blatant Western colonialism had disasterous results BECAUSE of the contamination. It should be things like "The Omega Glory" and "Piece of the Action" that caused the Prime Directive - show me a disaster caused by interference, not a bunch or moral babbling about what ifs.

TNG would have been better off stating that their strict adhering to the rule was *because* of how badly the previous century's loose interpretation affected the galaxy. Like if we had the mob in space because of McCoy leaving his tricorder behind or whatever.

 

[Phoenix219]

I loved it. The practical joke was epic. Charlize was good. Not every joke works, but Ive never seen a comedy where every joke works. I knew they were going to do time travel at some point, and probably will again. It would have better to have Pria around as a recurring troublemaker than to say she was erased, but I don't know what the availability of Charlize was. It may be that this was a one-off no matter what.

A good running gag would be that every time they meet, they still remember her, but she's meeting them for the first time. Each time her future profession changes, and her reason and mechanism for coming to the past is different, but she keeps running into them every time until they find a way to reset the future and get rid of her.