You are doing the most with so little.
Your interpretation, according to what you have quoted yourself, isn't canon.
Did I ever claim it was canon? You are the one stuck on claiming canon like a Bible. And the point is your claim that things in books, interviews and comics are canon doesn't fit without he long standing tradition of what is and isn't canon. So, sorry, you are wrong about comics and books being canon.
Take that in, admit you are capable of making mistakes. You won't die just because you have an opinion and it is just an opinion like other opinions.
I could care less about Kelvin "canon" as the whole thing is an alternate fan-fiction to Prime canon anyway when it comes to this project. the whole point IS to change it, so what is the problem here?
if you want to continue playing oblivious about what happens in the movie, and the narrative device used by the writers to reveal a secret pre-existing relationship,
I am the one talking about what happens in the movie. You are the one talking about canon and comics and books and interviews. It seems you need to draw attention away to anything but the movie, where as that is ALL I ever talked about (outside of Prime).
that's fine but you are losing credibility and painting yourself into a corner by preaching about canon to me when your precious interpretation isn't canon, nor supported by the writers and ANYONE authorized to write about this trek in respect of its established canon.
I didn't author what is or isn't canon, I am telling what is officially considered canon by the caretakers of the Star Trek franchise. I gave you THEIR words, not mine. You are the one who is claiming canon, and claiming it wrongly as it turns out. So you should go back and read about what is and isn't considered canon before you embarrass yourself further.
I wasn't the one who tried to beat you over the head with canon, you were the one wrong claiming that. Not only do you want to slander me with your invented motivations, you want to rewrite history too. No wonder you love Nu-Trek and like to trash TOS. Its all here in the boards, documented for anyone to go back and read.
If its not on screen, not covered in dialogue, then it isn't in the narrative of the film. I think you have been confusing narrative with backstory.
All Spock says to Uhura s that he wants to avoid favoritism. As you pointed out Pike showed favoritism to Kirk. Favoritism may have many reasons behind it. Neither Uhura nor Spock further elaborate in that scene why there would be the appearance of favoritism. They don't. It's not in the dialogue. All the dialogue confirms is that A) Uhura was one of Spock's top students B) demonstrated remarkable abilities, and C) Spock wished to avoid the appearance of favoritism. Thur calls Spock "Commander", and as I said before Spock is wearing a gray uniform, Uhura the red cadet uniform. I still have issues if we are now supposed to believe Spock slept with his students. That scene, retroactively could be scene as foreshadowing, but there is in and of itself no clear or obvious romance indicated in that scene. Once again, all I heard was "top student" and "avoid favoritism" and your arrogance you think anyone who doesn't go with your interpretation of narrative THAT ISN'T ON SCREEN is "silly" or "idiotic" (your words).
You seem to have to make yourself better than people because they dare to have a different opinion than you. You can't let people have their own mind, you insist on taking the opportunity to take people down and berate them instead of respecting people and respecting difference and difference of view and opinion. It's Star Trek, it's a movie, it's no reason to insult people, but because you are a mean person, nasty and insolent you have to take it there and make it personal. You might have missed the underlining meaning of Star Trek I suspect. I also suspect you have serious emotional and psychological issues based on how you behave.
Lastly, I am done talking about that scene, because it isn't even in the fan edit anyway, because it's all about them getting on to the ships to stop Nero and the destruction of Vulcan, something that breaks continuity between Kelvin and Prime.
That's typical pot calling the kettle black hypocrisy. You have some nerve trying to make others come across as the ones whose opinion is baseless, when you are the one here whose interpretation is the most biased and subjective,
You are mistaken. I never used the word "baseless" to describe anyone's opinion. When did I say then? I never said that.
All I have pointed out repeatedly is that there was nothing on screen or in dialogue to give a clear indication of Spock and Uhura's having a romantic relationship at that point in that scene. That is just empirically true, so I don't see why you keep harping on it, except for a sick compulsive desire to be seen as "right" on something that is not established on screen and therefor open to interpretation. You just don't like things being open to other interpretations than the ones you arrive at and want. That's the good thing about art, it is open to interpretation, and every author, writer, director and artists worth their salt knows that even with their intentions there is room for an audience to make up their own minds and come to their own understandings. And that's why you would never be a great artist.
not supported by anything.
Really, I told you what my interpretation was supported by, but here it goes again, since you desire this so much:
A) Uhura calls Spock "Commander"
Yeah, super romantic, it is so obvious right there they are having sex.
B) Uhura points out she is one of Spock's top students.
That is the first and to this point only information the audience is given about how Uhura and Spock know each other. THAT IS IT. There is no further elaboration.
But clearly I am "silly" and "idiotic" for not thinking at this point that they are OBVIOUSLY screwing each other.
C) Spock wants to avoid favoritism.
OK, that is interesting, but favoritism, as we just established with Pike and Kirk, doesn't not mean it is because of sex.
So geez, because Spock is called commander, is Uhura's instructor, acknowledges she is a star pupil, I am apparently forcing some anti-black misogynist anti-Spock agenda because I didn't pick up on some signs laid out in a book, a comic and an interview but not on screen at all at that point.
Honestly, I spelled it out as clearly as I can, and at this point you damn well can see what I have laid out, you just have a hardon for this argument for whatever psychological or emotional ills and compulsions you posses.
Neither the scenes in the movie (they never said they fell in love and started a relationship in that scene, so according to your own rules, this idiotic interpretation of romance isn't canon either)
What "rules"? All I am saying is movies convey a narrative, that is how a story works. Not every single thing must be spelled out, things can happen off screen, but they can't be pulled out of thin air either. Those elements of narrative which occur off screen need to cue the audience into them in some way, they can't just expect it by osmosis. And when a reveal is sudden with little lead in, that can confuse people and just be seen as an inconsistency, continuity error, plot hole, etc.
, nor the script, the writers, the actors. You have nothing but your bias and delusion to support your ideas.
Here it is again, now because the film makers/actors/writers didn't clearly convey their intentions on screen, now I am delusional. What an ass you are. You can't be magnanimous about anything, you got to go for the throat and put people down and act all smug. You fail at showing the tiniest modicum of respect to people and fail at having any decency as a human being. I can't imagine that is how a mother would raise a person, but perhaps she is a failure in those respects too.
And again, don't sue me just because I correctly interpreted canon just like the writers and JJ had intended us to.
Oh, you get a gold star and prize! Good for you!
Except you still don't understand what canon is. Go study it, look it up and then I will accept you apology for being wrong.
Don't give me much credit either, because it didn't require me any special ability since the majority of audience and pretty much every other trek writer who worked for this trek and its EU (expanded universe) , had the same exact "interpretation".
Mmm, probably because they have some sort of writers bible to keep things consistent, that's usually how that goes.
Really, I would love to see the data or the polls of how many in the audience interpreted Spock and Uhura's first interaction in the movie as a romantic relationship. Please supply the polling data along with the sample size, and other citations that allow you to make that assertion.
Again, you'd save yourself a lot of time and embarrassment if you just admitted that you want an excuse to take their dynamic out because you don't like it,
For the last time its because Vulcan gets destroyed. You have been asked multiple times how to preserve this plot element without it coming out of the blue and without reference to the plot of destroying Vulcan. You have FAILED to do so. Just admit you have a giant hardon for Spock and Uhura because it lets you live out all your "jungle fever" white-man claims black-women racist fantasies.
Just admit it. You aren't a progressive, you LOVE British Khan and whitewashing, the sexual objectification in Nu-Trek with all the gratuitous women in underwear scenes. Go ahead ADMIT IT.
Seriously, that is my imitation of you. You are a vicious person. You take this faux sanctimonious tone, but I doubt you actually care about real injustices in the world.
Admit that you hate the very notion of higher causes and ideals because you only accept a selfish world view that if something doesn't personally impact characters, you don't think they should care about anything or anyone else unless there is a personal stake involved.
That is why you don't like the older Trek, not because the Nu-Trek is more progressive (it isn't, it objectifies women, it white-washes staple characters from the franchise, but you don't see any problem with that), but because Nu-Trek substitutes the highest values of Starfleet for sex and violence, romantic interests and revenge stories.
and you prefer to make it all more "traditional" trek thus only about bromance
That wasn't what traditional Trek was about. I think you missed its meaning entirely. More importantly, that isn't what my edit is about, because very little of those interactions remain. As I said before, only three scenes occur between Kirk and Bones alone, there getting, their talking before the Kobyashi Maru in the first episode, and Jim's birthday in the second. How can that be the main focus of this edit when it only occupies three short scenes in a span of almost two hours?
The relationship with Spock, almost all gone outside of professionalism. That is keeping with TOS Prime Trek, Kirk and Bones are close friends, Spock is a crew member, but one it will take until the movies to become a genuine friend.
The only notable personal relationship left is Pike and Kirk, which isn't a bromance, it is a surrogate father/son relationship.
Instead the edit spends most of the time showing the crew work together and for the missions and by following the ideals of Starfleet. They show camaraderie, despite there being almost no scenes showing any sort of personal relationships.
So just admit you don't like the ideals of Starfleet, you prefer selfish more narrow self-interests and stories which reflect that myopic view of life.
and where you don't have to deal with the characters being adult people who happen to have other kinds of relationships too besides friendship (and leave the Greeks alone, please),
You still can't acknowledge the OTHER types of love that aren't erotic and "bromance". Again, did the Starfleet officer who became a terrorist to save his daughter feel erotic love for her or bromance? There are other bonds besides just friendship which are not erotic.
To risk one's life for the Federation, that is a kin to patriotism. To sacrifice one's self for one's crew (even the jerks you don't like, but you work with anyway for the common good), that is no bromance.
you are a broken record.
All I need to say is "The needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few." and the juxtaposing "all for one, one for all". Those themes have run throughout Star Trek.
instead of making up all these ridiculous excuses why "you cant" or you are respecting the inetgrity of the narrative
You still have failed to provide any useful alternative.
Its very simple why you can't have Vulcan destroyed to have this fit in with Prime.
when your whole story is a forced retcon of prime trek anyway where you are borrowing elements, and dynamics, unique to the alternate reality and its specific events and retconning them into tos.
Yes, to make it more of a retcon instead of the reboot it was.
You didn't even realize that your inconsistence and double standards about the romance was a pretext I used here to point something else up.
There is no double standard except in your imagination. I explained every single narrative choice and why, painstakingly. You haven't offered anything but destructive criticism, even when I repeatedly asked for your input. You have no desire to converse or cooperate. You want to shout at and tear down.
All in all, your posts make it obvious that one of the commenters here was right that this just feels like a tos purist hating on Abrams&Co and sh**ting on their work because it isn't "their trek" and like tos.
That's wanting to have the cake and eat too by using the new elements you like from the reboot, all the while altering and ignoring every defining aspect of their story.
First of all, if I were a purist, then why the heck would I even touch Nu-Trek? Why would I propose a retcon if I were a purist? Your logic falls on its face.
I haven't even seen the majority of TOS episodes.
So, no. You are once again predictably wrong when it comes to my motivations. I own the canon on my motivations, I don't accept the fan fiction of my motivations by fanboys like you. So you are not in keeping with canon with your fanboy fan fiction about me and are wrong, the canon says so. EVERYONE else and there mother sees that (because I say so), so your interpretation of me is "idiotic" and "silly".
I actually don't hate JJ Trek. I have issues with certain aspects: British Khan whitewashing, the sexual objectification of women (there were miniskirts in the 1960s, but why did we have to keep that element in the 21st century? All other versions of Trek allowed women to wear pants). I did not like the various vengeance plots that lose Trek's central meaning of the call of camaraderie and serving to better "the needs of the many", the Federation's efforts for peace, diplomacy, reconciliation and cooperation. But as a whole, I actually don't hate it, I love the first movie and like the third. So this believe of yours is waaaay off.
I just want to take those elements of Trek that don't work with Prime continuity in a world breaking way, or those plot elements that feel out of character and out place for something called Star Trek. Everything else is in, so long as if fits. I certainly don't think it removes the defining aspects of the story, as the edit still has clear narrative.
As for the rest, tbh I didn't even read past you accusing me of being homophobic just because I said that the slash fans (who historically perceive a lot of things about the characters as being ambiguos - your word - too, meaning not defined by canon <--- which was your main argument) share your same interpretation about s/u
I am no idiot, despite your assertions. You brought it up as a swipe at me.
I already outlined why I don't think "Commander" star student and recognizing one's abilities qualifies as romance. Seems like a pretty run of the mill Trek trope to have to two characters show professional respect.
The only thing you got are outside sources not in the movie, and the assertion that "favoritism" could only mean one thing and be for one thing, which is clearly false. You think all of that is unambiguous? You think that all conveys clear uncut romance?
I am sorry, I just don't see it in and of itself. I only see it as a forced backwards reading. As narrative, if it was meant to convey a clear romantic relationship, it fails. If it is foreshadowing, it is pretty weak.
Fyi I read slash fiction too. If you think that someone merely mentioning the shipper name of people who write about slash fiction, and pointing up that they share your interpretation about certain characters, is homophobic that not only is trivializing what homophobia actually is, but it really says more about you and the kind of mindset you have.
Oh get off it. By calling out a swipe you took at me, I am trivializing homophobia, but somehow at the same time your insertions of racism and sexism are somehow not trivializing Neo-Nazis and the Klan and rapists?
You are basically the last person who could convincingly take that political line. So you can scream sexism and racism, and that is held to one standard. I mention homophobia, now I am the bad guy and there is a new standard, which of course never applies to you. Let's just add hypocrisy to your character flaws.
Anyway, that's where I realized that the argument jumped the shark, and you are way past the point of getting defensive and making straw man arguments for the sake of.
Hypocrite. You don't get to talk about straw man arguments where that is your second debate tactic after ad hominem attacks.
So far, I seem to be the only one really giving you my opinions but it's time, perhaps, to see if others beside me have something to say too and contribute to the thread. I think I explained my opinion more than needed and I wouldn't want someone here to accuse me of being "mean" and ruining your party and "fun".
You were mean because you were condescending, smug and insulting. Other posters can see it it all laid out here, and tried to alert you to this fact, but in your self-righteousness you refuse to check yourself or even be corrected.
(besides, english isn't even my primary language but I'm more argumentative with it and I honestly don't think, at this point, that this thread is worth my ulterior effort and time that I could use differently. I gave you way more attention, already, than most of the people who voted did but I doubt you appreciated the effort anyway^)
Well I doubt you appreciated any of the effort I showed on my part towards you. You definitely never expressed even a modicum of appreciation, although I thanked you for your efforts more than once. But that is what one would expect of a person consumed by arrogance.
Goodbye.
