Does Trump think he can win a nuclear war?

[Nyotarules]

Does Mr Trump think he can win a nuclear war? Are his supporters really that dense and believe that the Pacific ocean will hold back the effects of a nuclear winter? Is this the influence of the nutter religious right wanting to usher in the End of the world cos they believe the secret rapture is coming?
Forget God bless America, more like God help the rest of the world from two madmen!

 

[DimesDan]

Probably. If he is still alive after The USA is levelled by Nuclear weapons then he'll count that as a win.

 

[MacLeod]

I suspect part of it is Trump is used to getting his own way, unfortunatly in a democracy a leader doesn't always get their own way. So when someone says No to him, he doesn't like it.

 

[Nyotarules]

China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons but North Korea having nuclear weapons is a really bad thing because??????

 

[mos6507]

China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons but North Korea having nuclear weapons is a really bad thing because??????

Nuclear proliferation is not the same as determining the fairness of divvying up jellybeans. If you don't understand how much higher the stakes are with nukes then there's no hope debating you on this.

 

[Nyotarules]

Nuclear proliferation is not the same as determining the fairness of divvying up jellybeans. If you don't understand how much higher the stakes are with nukes then there's no hope debating you on this.

If you know the answer just say so. Perhaps someone else will be willing to explain the geopolitical reasons behind this attitude of certain nations can be nuclear nations but others should not. Once the nuclear genie was out of the box worrying about proliferation is too late.

 

[Sgt_G]

China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons but North Korea having nuclear weapons is a really bad thing because??????

Do you really need someone to spell it out for you??

Short version: China and Russia have stable governments, fairly stable leaders, and a mature command and control structure overseeing their nuclear arsenals.

 

[Nyotarules]

North Korea is a stable dictatorship, similar to China, its had the same people in power for 70 years. Right now its debatable how responsible is the person 'leading' the free world and has access to the most nuclear weapons on the planet.

 

[Sgt_G]

For the record, Russia has the most nukes of any country on Earth.

 

[Scout101]

North Korea has had the same (family of) Dictators for a while, but I wouldn't describe it as a stable one. Having mentally unstable people with absolute power in charge is kinda the definition of unstable, actually. As in, they aren't going to be rational actors, who knows what could set them off.

Depressingly, the US somewhat fits the bill too at the moment, but there's at least checks on Trump doing whatever he wants, North Korea doesn't have those checks, he can just have someone killed if they get in his way. Flinched a little when NK responded and talked about a crazy leader that only understands force, because if you took the names out, you'd assume the statement was about NK. *sigh*

Also, you don't get Nuclear Winter from using a nuclear weapon. Or even a couple. So the Pacific will probably be just fine. We've used a couple, and both us and the Russians have tested many more. NW is describing the situation where US and Russia fire ALL of their weapons, and destroy large portions of a couple continents. North Korea doesn't have that kind of firepower, and we don't have the NEED to fire that many to turn South Korea into an island. We're safe on the Nuclear Winter issue at the moment, unless China gets in on this and we go WW3...

 

[Nyotarules]

For the record, Russia has the most nukes of any country on Earth.

Thankfully none of the Russian or Soviet leaders had any desire to die. (Only Khruschev called Kennedy's bluff.) Putin seems to be the same.

 

[Nyotarules]

We're safe on the Nuclear Winter issue at the moment, unless China gets in on this and we go WW3...

Which is the unknown factor, politically they are closer to Korean politics than American. Neither nation has experience 'western' style democracy ever.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

North Korea has had the same (family of) Dictators for a while, but I wouldn't describe it as a stable one. Having mentally unstable people with absolute power in charge is kinda the definition of unstable, actually. As in, they aren't going to be rational actors, who knows what could set them off.

This is a glass house in which Americans probably shouldn't throw stones.

Americans love to dismiss North Korea and its leadership as "crazy," rather than people in a weak strategic position doing their best to survive. The Kims are, of course, iron-fisted despots... but the world is full of those and we don't generally spend decades threatening to violently topple their governments.

The leadership of the DPRK is complex. Kim does not have absolute power, as much as Americans seem to believe he does. It is not a one-man state, but rather has large, complex institutions which function to keep the country intact and stable in the face of essentially unanimous international opposition. They have to: you can't maintain a police state as thorough and oppressive as the DPRK's just by having one guy rule by decree.

Depressingly, the US somewhat fits the bill too at the moment, but there's at least checks on Trump doing whatever he wants, North Korea doesn't have those checks, he can just have someone killed if they get in his way. Flinched a little when NK responded and talked about a crazy leader that only understands force, because if you took the names out, you'd assume the statement was about NK. *sigh*

I guess we all forgot how the W administration faked evidence and destroyed Iraq? Makes me wonder who the real "rogue state" is. Somebody remind me when the last time the DPRK invaded and fucked up another country was.

Also, you don't get Nuclear Winter from using a nuclear weapon. Or even a couple. So the Pacific will probably be just fine. We've used a couple, and both us and the Russians have tested many more. NW is describing the situation where US and Russia fire ALL of their weapons, and destroy large portions of a couple continents. North Korea doesn't have that kind of firepower, and we don't have the NEED to fire that many to turn South Korea into an island. We're safe on the Nuclear Winter issue at the moment, unless China gets in on this and we go WW3...

Yes, there is certainly a lot of hysteria coming from Americans about us possibly being annihilated in a confrontation with North Korea, as if they're the ones with thousands of nukes at their disposal. It's Koreans who have the most cause to worry about being obliterated at the moment.

 

[Nyotarules]

Despite the uncertainty that this is all schoolyard rhetoric (more evidence that men should never run the world). I doubt war will happen, Mr Trump does not have the support of his western allies, and NK dictator wants a nation to dictate to, wont be much of NK left once the USA sets its weapons on the country if they were that stupid to attack Guam.
The real problem is the USA nation has forgotten the Korean war, the Koreans have never forgotten after all it was their nation that was invaded and decimated. Maybe Americans need a war on their soil to teach them such things are to be avoided at all costs. War is not a computer game.

 

[DonIago]

^Are you really bringing gender into it?

 

[psCargile]

http://www.science20.com/robert_inv...r_war_asteroid_impacts_runaway_warming-192696

http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/10...ilemma-illuminates-hard-bomb-small-countries/

Nuclear war or exchange not likely, if so, not as devastating.

 

[Ln X]

The question is not whether the Americans can win a nuclear war with North Korea; short answer they can and I doubt the NKs can even hit Guam much less launch an ICBM with a nuclear warhead.

No, the real issue is how messy it will become once the NKs snap. First of all most of Seoul is going to be levelled due to all of those NK artillery pieces north of the DMZ; second NK missiles could be lobbed at nuclear power plants in Japan, South Korea and maybe China if NK goes crazy; third the NKs could rig a missile with a nuclear warhead, launch into the upper atmosphere, detonate it and create a massive EMP (see Starfish Prime for nukes in the upper atmosphere- Wiki it); fourth many NK citizens have been brainwashed and may fight to the last man, woman and child and/or commit suicide to prevent being captured/liberated.

I don't think the US army can do some of kind pre-emptive strike without the NK army retaliating and lobbing everything they have along the DMZ and down south. In short any war is going to kill millions of Koreans and it will probably go down as the most destructive, costly and bloody war since WW2.

If the NKs actually got proper ICBMs then MAD would apply and nothing would be different because they wouldn't use them. But THAAD and these missile defence shields have changed MAD and MAD may no longer be MAD.

Ironically I firmly believe that missile defence shields are the final nail in the coffin for MAD- the only thing stopping USA, Russia and China (don't forget India and Pakistan) blasting the crap out of each other.

Finally if North Korea does actually hit Guam, or Hawaii or the USA with one nuclear weapon and -- when the US army lobs a whole ton of SLBMs and ICBMs upon North Korea -- what will China do when its army raders detect dozens of missiles?

I hope to God the USA, China and Russia are coordinating together.

 

[Nyotarules]

The end of NK might be a step to uniting the Korean nation. Will China and Russia allow this? A united Korea will be under an American sphere of influence.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Someone needs to sit Trump down with a bucket of popcorn and have him watch War Games again, then The Day After, then Threads ...and then, if he's still not convinced, he should read On the Beach. Bam.

lose-lose

 

[BillJ]

Against North Korea? Absolutely. The only way NK hits even Guam at this point is with a lucky shot. It would likely only take one warhead on our side to wipe out Pyongyang. But, the conventional war for control afterward would be incredibly messy and have a huge death toll on the Korean peninsula. It would likely be one of the biggest humanitarian crisis we've ever seen.

After five years, and millions of Korean lives... we would likely be back to the status quo at the 38th parallel.