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is it ethical for the federation to not use cloaking technology?

Captain Triggered

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
the tech could save so many damn lives. do they have it written in some hard wired set-in-stone important treaty that they can't use cloaking technology? it's so useful, to me it's like sending a ship out without phasers. the defiants cloak made things possible the other main ships just couldn't do. it would probably avert alot of battles, make the klingons and romulans more wary and thus more likely to be peaceful imho
 
I personally don't see the sense in that treaty. There could be parallels in today's society with nukes or other highly sensitive technologies, but I don't get why the Federation, even as a peace-loving exploration-centric government would just lay down and agree not to pursue that technology. You're right, it's kinda like sending your flagship out without any weapons.
 
all the times the federation waded into a ambush or couldnt shake a persuer. so many lives lost. wonder why the dominion didnt either? seems unlikely they were incapable of the tech? and they had treaties at various points with factions with cloaking technology. it's such a ridiculous tool. offensively yea, small armada decloaks, blows installation out of space, cloaks, no damage taken, no way for retribution. but defensively it should be a core technology - like camo on soldiers
 
The Dominion never particularly seemed to need cloaking tech to defeat its antagonists...

I believe GR speculated that Our Heroes don't go skulking around using cloaking tech. And yes, "The Pegasus" explicitly established that the Federation had signed a treaty in which it was agreed they wouldn't either use or pursue cloaking tech (my memory's a little fuzzy on the specifics).

Since we don't know what led the Federation to agree not to use it, perhaps they faced far worse consequences if they refused to sign the treaty. We don't have the information we would need to say with any degree of certainty.

Though I do love that people repeatedly ask why the Federation would agree to such a thing while having virtually no knowledge of any other details of the treaty.
 
The treaty of Algernon.

The Romulans suffered a catastrophic loss.

Do you know what unconditional surrender looks like?

America in Afghanistan and Iraq for the last decade plus.

No one (sane) wants to take land that doesn't want to be took.

Options?

Slaves? Or incorporating the Star Empire's 45 trillion Romulans into the Federation, with the full rights of of all the other UFP citizens who worked so hard to be there willingly... Or you know, wipe them out. All Dead.

The alternative is to pretend that the Romulans won.

Concede something very valuable to the Romulans, that the Federation does not give a toss about, and it's peace, total peace, and the Romulans lose while feeling like they won, so there's no urgency to rebuild and strike back, like Germany did in '39 after they were treated so terrible at Versailles.

Also remember the blaring limitation of the Cloak: "No shields".

Sure Romulans vs the Federation, it's an arms race, sensors vs cloaks, but the Federation are explorers encountering unknowns who may already have sensors that can see straight through their cloaks, which means that they are entering into a battle with their shields down for no damn reason.
 
Though I do love that people repeatedly ask why the Federation would agree to such a thing while having virtually no knowledge of any other details of the treaty.

I never did claim to be the brightest bulb.

Could there be a reasonable rationale behind the Treaty? Of course. But on the surface, without knowing the details, it does appear to be a little like agreeing to have both of your hands tied behind your back just before your boxing match.
 
The Dominion never particularly seemed to need cloaking tech to defeat its antagonists...
Indeed, nor do most other races. It's only really the Romulans and Klingons. I doubt the Cardassians would have any moral objections, so why don't they use them? Or the Ferengi?

There must be significant technical difficulties or trade-offs that most species aren't willing to make. The Romulans have virtually perfected the technology, perhaps because of their quantum singularity power cores, and perhaps the Klingons are willing to sacrifice a host of other features in order to use cloaks that others don't see as optional - perhaps safety is compromised, or comforts.
 
Disregarding what ever political reasons.
Cloaking is highly expensive to build and maintain. Any little thing that is off could compromise it. And requires huge amount of energy, hence, fuel. You are wasting a lot of economic resources on it in preparation for a war that may come or not.
Now take a look at real world examples.
1 . King Edward built the Iron Ring of castle with double walls and all, each costing more than a year's worth of the country's income. In the end none was ever put to the test. And yet all were "defeated" by a new strategy of siege with as little as hundred men.
2. Babylon the greatest walled fortress city of the time never saw battle either. It's inhabitant simply open their gates for Alexander.
3. The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line was defeated because it's stationary and can simply circumvented. While it defended some border the germans simply conquered everything else.
4. The island defense strategy of the Japanse was defeated the same way by the island jumping strategy.
The lesson: huge resource waste in "sure" fire military things never pays of if you don't understand situations and strategy.
 
Compared to warping space to fly faster than light, the energy use is insignificant, otherwise Quark and Rom would have been sterilized when they were carrying around a turned on cloaking generator in the Emperors new Cloak, that was not connected at all to any external power sourses.

Similar arguments could be made for Enterprise in the Romulan Incident, about Enterprise not needing a larger warp reactor to power the first cloak when it was first plugged in, after Kirk stole it.

Although I think that power use has been cited for why it's impossible to cloak while your shields are up, which hasn't been true since Star Trek 6. With more modern cloaks, I think there's just a conflict, trying to suppress the signature of a massive energy field radiating off the ship that can more easily be turned off, than figured out how to invisiblize.

Speed.

Cloaks destabilized and work less well at higher warp speeds, and maybe higher impulse speeds, since full impulse through real space probably puts more stress on the ship than high warp inside a warp bubble.

Oh? Decloaking to fire? Yeah, but is that about power consumption issue, or are you just a ninny if you forget to turn your shields on for a couple seconds while you're firing disrupters?

OH!

Passive scans only. You may be invisible, but you're also flying blind almost. No active scans, and no long range scans, so an entire flotilla can easily sneak up on you if you are too cloaked, when you should be mindful of your surroundings.
 
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Compared to warping space to fly faster than light, the energy use is insignificant, otherwise Quark and Rom would have been sterilized when they were carrying around a turned on cloaking generator in the Emperors new Cloak, that was not connected at all to any external power sourses.

Similar arguments could be made for Enterprise in the Romulan Incident, about Enterprise not needing a larger warp reactor to power the first cloak when it was first plugged in, after Kirk stole it.
True, but you are only looking at the moment. Consider the hundreds of ships and the years that add up. And they patrol at warp most of the time the borders else it's impossible to cover the real size of space.
The same problem with aircraft carriers, the aircrafts don't use much yet 3 million gallons have to be supplied every 1 or 2 weeks.
 
i admit i'm a little uneducated when it comes to the federation and their resources. can they just replicate complicated pieces? I appreciate the federation doesn't believe in "sneaking" around, but as an emergency piece of tech, it just seems too useful. when does the algeron treaty run out? and does romulus still exist in canon? do new star trek books set in the 24th respect the loss of vulcan and romulus?
 
The Empire might have survived the destruction of it's throne world in 2009, but then again it didn't seem to survive politically Shinzon's coup and minute tenure, since Spock was about to #### with Romulus' sun, without being shot at by thousands of warbirds not long thereafter.

The self replicating cloaked minefield in DS9.

Built by the Federation for Bajor by an independent contractor (Rom) deployed in Dominion Space and the Romulan's didn't say tickity boo, who were not as yet a player in the war... Actually that would be funny. The Dominion being punished for "owning" a cloaked minefield that they were the victims of.

Tiny power source for a tiny cloak on a tiny bomb that is so uncomplicated that it can be replicated quickly and effortlessly.
 
and does romulus still exist in canon? do new star trek books set in the 24th respect the loss of vulcan and romulus?

The books haven't gotten to the point in the timeline where Romulus is destroyed. And Vulcan isn't destroyed in the Primeverse, only the NUniverse.
 
Not that they've shared with us. :p
I believe I heard that the novels license was up for renewal in the near'ish future, and that how that would be addressed was likely to be a point of discussion.
 
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