Do people still believe in Hell?

[Trekkin]

I think 'victims' become the bullies and all they can see is themselves. It's sad and I feel sorry for them but Christians have been persecuted for centuries.

See, this is what happens when you mistake platitudes and random streams of thought, for an actual point.


'The persecuted become oppressors'
'Christians have been persecuted for centuries'

Foot, meet bullet.

That 'holiday' thing amuses. Like when people feel it is not religious of origin. I mean what part of holy day don't they get? Still it is also a day of simple recreation for many. It's like when people are scared to use the word man so they use person.. don't they see the word 'son' in person? Human has man in it.. time to rewrite the dictionary I think.

We rewrite dictionaries all the damn time. The Oxford dictionary alone is revised every year. Open a fucking book.

And unless you're from pre-1100, 'holiday' doesn't literally mean 'holy day.' 'Get' it?

 

[Nerys Myk]

That 'holiday' thing amuses. Like when people feel it is not religious of origin. I mean what part of holy day don't they get? Still it is also a day of simple recreation for many. It's like when people are scared to use the word man so they use person.. don't they see the word 'son' in person? Human has man in it.. time to rewrite the dictionary I think. Perhaps people are focusing on the wrong things?

Language evolves. Holiday has taken on a meaning separate from "Holy Day". Person is not derived from the word "son".

 

[fireproof78]

For some reason, I felt this was appropriate here:

That 'holiday' thing amuses. Like when people feel it is not religious of origin. I mean what part of holy day don't they get? Still it is also a day of simple recreation for many. It's like when people are scared to use the word man so they use person.. don't they see the word 'son' in person? Human has man in it.. time to rewrite the dictionary I think. Perhaps people are focusing on the wrong things?

Language evolves, and take on new meaning. There is no reason to fight over it and benefits absolutely no one.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What frustrates me the most is that it's not even the majority of Christians, it's a sect of Dominionists in the Pentecostal, Baptist, and Non-Denominational Evangelical branches of Christianity, the one that says having millions of dollars is what God wants for you, and that helping the poor is just enabling them to be lazy. These people are the anti-Christ in almost every sense of the term, and they're the ones who seek the most power and influence. It's just that, since 70% of the country is Christian, even 10% being Evangelical would amount to tens of millions of these Dominionists who fuck it over for everyone else.

Prosperity doctrine has never taken off here the way it has in the US (and neither has the Rapture, a belief invented in America). Most of the christians I know who are anti-gay and devoted to their own ridiculous culture war would hate prosperity doctrine. They are mainstream conservatives.. presbyterians, anglicans, bunches of random types of baptists. We do have some mega churches with prosperity teaching but it's seen as a past fad and/or dangerous by a lot of conservative churches. I get the impression it's hugely popular in some parts of the US though.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Hey @teacake would love to have your thoughts on what I posted about my time in the AOG

Do people still believe in Hell?

 

[Jayson1]

My personal experience with Christians has actually never been so bad, yet I still know that their are some really bad ones out their, from stories like people have mentioned here and just stuff you see on the news and the internet.
Which makes me wonder how much value would should put in just our own personal experiences. How do we really judge something when your dealing with individuals. If you had 10 Christians in a room and you had to interact with 5 of them yet you didn't know which 5 you would have to deal with you could have muliple reactions to them on sheer luck of the 5 you had to deal with.
Also you got to figure their is a difference between a follower and a leader. People at the top have a need to manipulate people because it serves their best intrest but just because a priest says something doesn't mean anyone buys into it.
How many Cathlotics for example really listen to the Pope on anything? I tend to think most people are going to believe what they want to believe and ignore the stuff they don't like.
I know one could also say that if they hear fellow Christians say something they don't like that they should just walk away but how easy is that in reality? Isn't that like asking why Scientologist don't leave once they start bringing out the funny hats and start talking about the aliens.
If people really believe in the dogma then isn't it harder to just walk away just because we don't like some of the people around you or a leader.
Look at it from a poltical point of view. How many people held their nose and support trump because they thought he was going to "Clean the Swamp" and how many of us liberals looked the other way with Bill Clinton when it became clear that he is kind of a scummy person just because the economy was doing great in the 90's.
Plus I always wonder what the level of good to bad people really is when it comes to Christianity and Muslims. I figure you got a small portion willing to hurt or kill people but to me I wonder what the numbers are between people who don't do harmful things but still kind of support it to people who hate it on ever level. How would anyone ever even go about in getting that kind of info?
Jason

 

[CorporalCaptain]

That 'holiday' thing amuses. Like when people feel it is not religious of origin. I mean what part of holy day don't they get? Still it is also a day of simple recreation for many.

Instead of pushing that, you might consider becoming better educated. Here, read this:

"Why December 25?" by Elesha Coffman, in Christianity Today

It's from a source you might consider credible, and its contents coincide with my understanding on the subject. It's, like, win/win, from that perspective.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Well I think I addressed some of it but didn't reply to this:

Also endorphines.... A lot of the religious experience unleashes a torrent of endorphines that gives you an internal high.

Speaking in tongues, not spiritual at all....... I could do that and, do it at the drop of a hat. You get sucked into so much stuff But the internal highs you get during worship becomes a drug.

What drove me away and snapped me out of all this was the actual change in church culture. Towards 1999/2000 there was a radical change in tone from what seemed good and seemed right to a focus on self and self attainment. The prosperity doctrine seemed to take over. Also a few church scandals, and their focus on things like sex in marriage and stuff.

Oh and to top that off things like "christian fashion parades" it's a thing.....

It drove me out of my funk and I left, and have felt much better ever since. That's not what JC taught us the stuff they preached, nothing like it at all.

But thank you for your post teacake it was interesting.

I've heard of that church, I guess we have so few mega churches here you tend to hear about the big ones. and yeah I just looked it up, that was the church that had that pastor make up having cancer! He was quite the con artist, I remember getting into an argument with a friend of mine when that went down. She was convinced he made it up because of his porn addiction, she's one of those people who think EVERYTHING is about addiction and so is a disease so we must forgive the poor man.. apparently he'd been making up crap his whole life and was quite the charlatan. Claiming an addiction made him do it was some getting out of jail free card that bizarrely some people like my friend seized upon. Anyway, what nonsense. Hilarious as always when christians who are so free to scream SIN!!! and point at gays make these ridiculous excuses when one of their own rips people off or cheats on a spouse or acts in vile and abusive ways.

Is that church still into prosperity? I agree with Coloratura, it's the antithesis of the gospel. It's good you're out of that.

My experience with Pentecostal churches, or rather the people (I've managed to sit through maybe two different services of that crap) is sad stuff. I have known so many people with mental health issues, often bipolar, who become superstar worshippers in these churches, run around like lunatics doing 10 peoples work there and are lauded for it, get into prophesying and tongues and all that stuff. it's just a huge manic episode. And you get people who clearly need medical care not getting it because everyone loves a christian in a manic episode praising god. Bad stuff.

Also re the endorphins, people with serious depression often feel total failures in church because they can't self medicate that endorphin high. They don't feel the peace or the presence or.. anything, they feel just as low all the time no matter how much prayer and worship times they do. ALL churches in my experience are extremely behind on mental health, often in the dark ages but even the ones that see themselves as progressive are conflicted over mental health issues. Very hard to say something is not of God but of unfortunate brain chemistry.

Anyway good on you getting out when it got horrible @Tetragrammaton Invictus . My friend knows I will not go to these things even if she's having some event that's important to her. Grotesque stuff that invariably makes me angry. Also so boring Let's stand here and sing the same verse over and over and over again for 15 minutes.. soz people if I need an endorphin high I'll play a video game.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Both my sisters and their families are devout Christians. My mother is a regular church goer as well. We get along fine.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well I think I addressed some of it but didn't reply to this:

I've heard of that church, I guess we have so few mega churches here you tend to hear about the big ones. and yeah I just looked it up, that was the church that had that pastor make up having cancer! He was quite the con artist, I remember getting into an argument with a friend of mine when that went down. She was convinced he made it up because of his porn addiction, she's one of those people who think EVERYTHING is about addiction and so is a disease so we must forgive the poor man.. apparently he'd been making up crap his whole life and was quite the charlatan. Claiming an addiction made him do it was some getting out of jail free card that bizarrely some people like my friend seized upon. Anyway, what nonsense. Hilarious as always when christians who are so free to scream SIN!!! and point at gays make these ridiculous excuses when one of their own rips people off or cheats on a spouse or acts in vile and abusive ways.

Is that church still into prosperity? I agree with Coloratura, it's the antithesis of the gospel. It's good you're out of that.

My experience with Pentecostal churches, or rather the people (I've managed to sit through maybe two different services of that crap) is sad stuff. I have known so many people with mental health issues, often bipolar, who become superstar worshippers in these churches, run around like lunatics doing 10 peoples work there and are lauded for it, get into prophesying and tongues and all that stuff. it's just a huge manic episode. And you get people who clearly need medical care not getting it because everyone loves a christian in a manic episode praising god. Bad stuff.

Also re the endorphins, people with serious depression often feel total failures in church because they can't self medicate that endorphin high. They don't feel the peace or the presence or.. anything, they feel just as low all the time no matter how much prayer and worship times they do. ALL churches in my experience are extremely behind on mental health, often in the dark ages but even the ones that see themselves as progressive are conflicted over mental health issues. Very hard to say something is not of God but of unfortunate brain chemistry.

Anyway good on you getting out when it got horrible @Tetragrammaton Invictus . My friend knows I will not go to these things even if she's having some event that's important to her. Grotesque stuff that invariably makes me angry. Also so boring Let's stand here and sing the same verse over and over and over again for 15 minutes.. soz people if I need an endorphin high I'll play a video game.

Thank you so much for the reply.

I think they're somewhat still tied to the prosperity doctrine. They changed their name too from Paradise AOG to "Influencers" which is hilarious in its own right.

Oh Pastor Danny actually it was his son that had the porn addiction. That was a thing just after I had left. Andrew Evans became a member of the political party Family First and yeah funny and interesting times.... Funniest one was when they kicked out one of their own family for the way she dressed, apparently too many short skirts but I think there was more to that story than just that. They are very much the alt Jesus.

The tongues thing is hilarious in its own sad way. I could do that so spontaneously and I think it became a habbit at times. I think the funniest thing is when a pastor or someone is praying for someone and they fall over. You know what that is now don't you? it's funny and sad at the same time.

I have been church free since 2001 and happier.

 

[Refuge]

How many Cathlotics for example really listen to the Pope on anything? I tend to think most people are going to believe what they want to believe and ignore the stuff they don't like.

Jason

I guess it depends on the Catholic but many Catholics highly respect the Pope.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Oh yeah I know all about the falling down.

I had this friend who was married to a very immature dickhead and she sent him to special pentecostal meetings during that toronto blessing deal, or maybe it was some other revival thing. Anyway she was very excitedly told me how god was moving in his life because every time he went up for prayer he FELL DOWN. And had "carpet time" as she called it.

Flash forward a couple decades he's still a very immature dickhead. Nothing changed then, nothing changed now.

So stupid. He did have some big high about it though and god that was boring to listen to.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Oh yeah I know all about the falling down.

I had this friend who was married to a very immature dickhead and she sent him to special pentecostal meetings during that toronto blessing deal, or maybe it was some other revival thing. Anyway she was very excitedly told me how god was moving in his life because every time he went up for prayer he FELL DOWN. And had "carpet time" as she called it.

Flash forward a couple decades he's still a very immature dickhead. Nothing changed then, nothing changed now.

So stupid. He did have some big high about it though and god that was boring to listen to.

Ah.......... That's what they called it "The Toronto Blessing" now I remember.

We even had that guy Benny Hinn come to our church at one time. What a con artist? Even back then I could tell that guy was a douche.

Before they changed the name to "Influencers" they had actually become a business. A church with "incoprated" in its name. Clearly god wasn't the priority. haha.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Oh don't forget kids every December. "The war on Christmas" happens every December because reasons.

I blame Fox News

 

[Refuge]

Yeah I can never understand the aggravation at Christmas, it's the best time of the year. So what if the word has Christ in it and some local baker wants to a put a nativity in his shop window? If people want to put teddy bears in every holiday now instead? I heard some very sensitive folk worrying about bells and candles on Christmas cards because you get bells and candles in churches. Celebrate the way things work for you.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah I can never understand the aggravation at Christmas, it's the best time of the year. So what if the word has Christ in it and some local baker wants to a put a nativity in his shop window? If people want to put teddy bears in every holiday now instead? I heard some very sensitive folk worrying about bells and candles on Christmas cards because you get bells and candles in churches. Celebrate the way things work for you.

No what irks me are the people that say that "happy holidays" ruins christmas. It just doesn't. Those kind of people just suck at life.

 

[Refuge]

I think Happy Holidays sounds kind of forced. I always think it flows saying Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Well I'm Australian so it's invariable shortened to "Chrissy". Have a good Chrissy mate! Whatcha doing for Chrissy? Done all your Chrissy presents yet?

 

[Trekkin]

Yeah I can never understand the aggravation at Christmas, it's the best time of the year. So what if the word has Christ in it and some local baker wants to a put a nativity in his shop window? If people want to put teddy bears in every holiday now instead?

From a former teenage shop worker:

Why the fuck should I assume that a total stranger is celebrating Christmas?

There's half a dozen other goddamn holidays on the same time. Even leaving out the atheists, agnostics, and other whatnot that just don't care for it.

I heard some very sensitive folk worrying about bells and candles on Christmas cards because you get bells and candles in churches.

Source?

 

[Awesome Possum]

From a former teenage shop worker:

Why the fuck should I assume that a total stranger is celebrating Christmas?

There's half a dozen other goddamn holidays on the same time. Even leaving out the atheists, agnostics, and other whatnot that just don't care for it.



Source?

She assumes that Christians are the norm.

She also seems to be living in some alternate universe and yet somehow still able to communicate with our own.