What expectations did you have for Moffat's tenure?

[The Nth Doctor]

As we near the end of Steven Moffat's tenure, I've found myself reflecting on the expectations I had for the show.

While I can't recall any specific story expectations for his run at the moment (aside from less absurdly stupid stuff that we saw during RTD's run), I had hoped that at least one or two the actors from Coupling would guest star on Doctor Who, particularly Jack Davenport and Gina Bellman.

What expectations did you have going into Moffat-run Doctor Who?

 

[Csalem]

I had a hope we would get the high-quality episodes we had gotten from him during the RTD era but knew he could not sustain it over multiple episodes per season.

Not sure an expectation but I had a worry he would reinvent the series in some way that was very different from what had gone before in the previous 5 years so was happy when it did feel like a continuation.

 

[Lonemagpie]

A continued level of cleverness and ingenuity, which we didn't get.

 

[The Wormhole]

What I wasn't expecting was the show to get the complete makeover it got when Moffat took over. Yes, I knew things were going to be different, a new showrunner is obviously going to want to make the show his own, and rightfully so. But the extent of the changes surprised me, mainly because taking over a show that had been on the air for five years, you logically want to save money by keeping some stuff. But hardly anything from RTD's era was kept. New TARDIS interior and exterior, new production staff, Murray Gold stayed, but the show's score was completely overhauled with all of the musical themes from the RTD era abandoned, though curiously, in recent years many of them have been brought back. Also for some reason, the Cybermen continue to keep the same theme they've had since Rise of the Cybermen. Also, all the world building from RTD's era was ditched, we haven't seen American news reporter Trinity Wells for example, and she was a staple of RTD's era, even appearing in Torchwood and SJA. Again, some of this stuff has creeped its way back onto the show in recent years, most notably with the Shadow Proclamation brought back recently. Various aliens from the RTD era have always been popping back since Moffat took over, but this is presumably a budget consideration and has indeed been confirmed so on a few occasions.

In short, I expected a somewhat organic continuation to what RTD started, but instead, Moffat Who is more or less a completely different show. It's almost amusing how much changed in season 5 and how much has either changed again in the years since or even reverted back to RTD's way. In addition to the stuff I mentioned, the new console room introduced in season 5 was replaced by another new design in season 7. An attempt to move the modern-day set stories away from London, helped by having Amy and Rory living outside of London was abandoned when Clara was introduced, as she lives in London, and modern day stories have gone back to being set there. And then of course, there's the most infamous change Moffat made, the Daleks, with the New Paradigm abandoned and forgotten in favor of the RTD Dalek design. At this point, I think the logo Moffat introduced is the only thing to stay, and even that's been modified slightly.

It'll be interesting to see what if anything Chibnall will change. A new title sequence and main theme arrangement are almost certainly guaranteed, and probably a new logo too. I wonder if he's going to try to introduce as many changes as Moffat did, or if BBC will even allow him free rein to make as many changes.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

That's the annoying thing. I fear Moffat set up an unecessary template of complete revitalization with each coming producer. We can expect a new TARDIS interior along with new credit sequence, new music motif etc.

Although, to be fair, RTD himself set the precedent of equalling Ten's exit with his own. When Ten speaks with Wilf, its almost as if its RTD speaking to the audience, saying how its his Doctor Who that is dying, his Doctor and how a new producer and his take will take over the show. So while Moffat is to blame for his part, RTD did set a precedent by himself.

At the end of the day, though, I think Moffat was spent a season and a half in. Season 5 was overally satisfactory, the individual episodes of season six are all great, if mind-boggling in closer inspection, the trilogy of Doctor in the show's 50th anniversary is pretty sweet (if imperfect). But the arcs after 5 are idiotic, at best (River is a Pond? Impossible Girl - what does that even mean? Zombie Cybermen? And can somebody please tell me what the hell is the Hybrid again all about?) and as a result, Capaldi's the one who's suffered the most.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

But did he really? Most of the main producers of the classic series did that, too, particularly Barry Letts, Philip Hinchcliffe, and John Nathan-Turner.

I expect Chibnall will do some overalls to the show (theme, sequence, logo), although perhaps not quite as drastically as Moffat did in regards to the sets. I'm sure the storytelling will be different from Davies and Moffatt.

 

[Steve Roby]

Hmm. Good question. I expected more or less a continuation of the RTD era with some minor changes, I think. But right from "The Eleventh Hour" the show felt a lot different in ways I've found hard to put my finger on. For a start, we went from a modern, diverse London to Midsomer Murders territory. (Not an observation original to me, I know.) The tone shifted from something influenced by soap operas to something aspiring to be fairytales, which for me was not an improvement. And we went from series with minor arc hints building up to one or two big contrived and convoluted arcsplosion episodes to series with most of the episodes revolving around contrived and convoluted arc elements that ended up making about as much sense as a Brannon Braga TNG or Voyager episode. I didn't expect much of that.

 

[Timby]

I expected more consistency than we actually got. I never, ever expected two full seasons (for me, 6 and 9) to be long wet farts, and probably half of the eighth is dogshit, too. And it's so weird, because the fifth season is flawless, and while I know most don't share my opinion, I love both 7a and 7b.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I've come to really like series 7A, but thats largely because of Amy and Rory and less about the stories themselves, which seem like second-rate Big Finish audio dramas, to me (at least they were free at the time). But the arcs, man... Like 'em or hate 'em, at least RTD delivered some noteable arcs in his time - Bad Wolf, Torchwood, Doctor Jesus and the Master Devil, and the Stolen Earth three-parter - and they all had major repercussions on the Doctor and his life onwards in big ways. I can't really say that for Moffat, as any damage done in those arcs was almost immediately switched back to its status quo. In fact, the biggest change that occured in his reign, beyond Eleven's (and soon to be Twelve's) regeneration(s), is Rory and Amy's exits in in series 7A. And it makes sense as the show was aimless at the time.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I'd basically echo what Lonemagpie and Steve Roby have already said.

I knew there would be a change of tone when the torch passed from RTD to Moffat. It couldn't be helped. They're different men with different storytelling sensibilities. I think I expected something more like Jekyll.

I thought Moffat would attempt to make Doctor Who more like what we'd call today "prestige television" (think arc-heavy television like Game of Thrones) and I thought he would be able to pull it off. He didn't. Watching Moffat's Who, he's clearly nodding in that direction, but either his heart isn't really into it or he's too limited or too undisciplined as a writer and a producer to be able to manage it effectively.

It's maybe easier to say what I didn't expect.

I didn't expect Moffat to make the Doctor a secondary character in his own series.

I didn't expect Moffat to be such a poor writer on a structural level.

I didn't expect Moffat to make his stories feel so small. He writes good moments when viewed in a vacuum, but his work, both on the episode-by-episode basis as well as the season-long (or Doctor-long) view ends up feeling like less than the sum of its parts.

The comparison between Moffat and Brannon Braga is apt. Moffat's Who and Braga's Voyager have similar weaknesses -- an emphasis on ideas and the superficial, stories built on puzzles rather than plot, arbitrary stories that don't resolve satisfactorily or make sense in retrospect (or, occasionally, even at the time).

The stories of the eleventh and twelfth Doctors that were the most satisfying to me are in the tie-ins, where Moffat's influence is the least. In a way, that's similar to Star Trek: Voyager in the 90s; the tie-in novels, because they were written by novelists with a stronger grip on developing a plot, were more coherent and dramatically true than the television series.

 

[JRoss]

I had hoped that it would be Blink every week. Nope. One thing about it is that the BBC really amped up their presence in the US in the like 15 months since they announced Matt Smith as the replacement for Tennant and the airdate of The Eleventh Hour. A LOT of what made NuWho great come from RTD and Tennant, and now it feels very forgotten over in America. It's also a weird feeling because it seems like all the other fans are hipsters now. Like crowding out of something that you've liked for a long time.

 

[The Wormhole]

One thing about it is that the BBC really amped up their presence in the US in the like 15 months since they announced Matt Smith as the replacement for Tennant and the airdate of The Eleventh Hour.

A lot of that had to do with SyFy dropping Doctor Who in the US after season 4 and BBC America picking it up starting with The Next Doctor. I'm not completely familiar with the issue, but I get the impression BBC America did a better job with Doctor Why than SyFy ever did.

In Canada we had a similar situation, CBC carried Doctor Who for the first four seasons, and indeed even provided funding for the show. Unfortunately, aside from the first season, the show was treated rather poorly by CBC. Hell, apparently due to a change of management, many higher-ups at CBC apparently weren't even aware they were funding the show somehow. Starting with the 2009 specials, Doctor Who moved over to Space, where it has since flourished into one of their better shows.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

A lot of that had to do with SyFy dropping Doctor Who in the US after season 4 and BBC America picking it up starting with The Next Doctor. I'm not completely familiar with the issue, but I get the impression BBC America did a better job with Doctor Why than SyFy ever did.

Ah, yes, the sordid tale of Doctor Who and SyFy.

The United States got Doctor Who long after everyone else had aired the Christopher Eccleston series. And that was sort of the BBC's doing.

BBC Worldwide had a difficult time selling DW to an American network in 2004 and 2005. One problem was BBC Worldwide's asking price -- they wanted, I'm told, fifteen million for the thirteen episodes. The other problem was, in the words of one of the networks who passed, Doctor Who "looked cheap." The RTD era (until the specials) was shot in SD, there were frame rate conversion issues from PAL to NTSC that sped things up, and compared to other programs, Doctor Who of that time didn't look good. (Even today, I'd say that the visuals of RTD era haven't aged well.) Faced with a high price tag for a product of uncertain interest that looked tacky (I'm not talking about the content, just the visuals), a number of networks (including Bravo and A&E) passed. (I've heard rumors that HBO also passed, but I have never, ever been able to confirm that it was ever offered to them.)

What forced BBC Worldwide's hand was the Region 1 DVD release of the first series in Canada. Worldwide made a deal with SyFy (at roughly 10 percent of what they had originally asked) just to get it on the air somewhere.

BBC America was never an option at the time. While BBC America's reach is okay today, ti was, in 2005, a very, very niche channel with a small viewer base.

SyFy didn't really care about Doctor Who. It was hugely profitable for them -- compared to what they were paying for Battlestar, Doctor Who was a pittance -- but they also didn't really promote it. And Who wasn't popular with a segment of Battlestar fandom; they felt it was a poor lead-in to their show, both tonally and visually, and they blamed Who for Battlestar's declining ratings. (I even know a few who blame Who for the cancellation.) SyFy dropped the series, largely because they went through one of their periodic periods of, "We don't care about science-fiction. That's not the audience we cater to."

When BBC America took over broadcasting the series, they developed an actual marketing plan. They knew the audience they wanted to target -- college-age and young adults -- and they invested a lot of money into promoting the series, especially at SDCC. (One of the issues they had with the split season 6 was that BBC America's marketing budget wasn't enough to cover two launches, spring and fall.) And they pay some production costs.

 

[The Wormhole]

they blamed Who for Battlestar's declining ratings. (I even know a few who blame Who for the cancellation.)

That's silly, BSG's declining ratings probably had more to do with SyFy taking it away from the Stargate shows, which is when all three did their best ratings. And coincidentally, they stopped airing together, all three saw an impact in their ratings. Although I guess it was right after this break-up that Doctor Who was paired with BSG, so I guess I can see where some might be confused.

 

[Mr Awe]

I particularly enjoyed Moffat's work under RTD, but I knew there was no way he'd be able to keep that up. When it was announced he'd be the showrunner, I did have some worries about him managing a complex series and keeping his level of creativity up. However, in no way did I expect the huge F ups on the order of The Time of the Doctor, the Gallifrey arc, Zombie Cybermen, The Hybrid, and just the generally failing plot arcs that were overhyped and underperformed.

I still enjoyed Moffat's tenure overall but I'm glad the keys have been passed on to someone else.

Mr Awe

 

[Timby]

I still enjoyed Moffat's tenure overall but I'm glad the keys have been passed on to someone else.

Unfortunately, that someone else is the person who thought this was a great idea:

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Unfortunately, that someone else is the person who thought this was a great idea:

Fortunately that same guy has proven on other shows that he does know what he's doing. I'm not saying that episode is forgivable, but Chibnall has shown he has changed since then.

 

[Timby]

Fortunately that same guy has proven on other shows that he does know what he's doing. I'm not saying that episode is forgivable, but Chibnall has shown he has changed since then.

Have you seen the pile of dogshit that is the second season of Broadchurch?

 

[The Wormhole]

You know, I never noticed before the Cyberwoman has high heels. Which is weird, why did the Cybermen specifically decide when converting her, give this one feminine footwear?

 

[kirk55555]

You know, I never noticed before the Cyberwoman has high heels. Which is weird, why did the Cybermen specifically decide when converting her, give this one feminine footwear?

Having not seen the episode, but seeing the picture, I mostly question why she's in a custom suit (completely with so much open skin, including her face) and not a standard Cyberman suit like every other Cyberman. She's not just in "mid transformation" either, since her suit has a female chest plate. At that point, the high heels are really just a small part of the problems with her. I imagine that actually watching the episode just leads to more questions and problems.

One thing I try to remind myself when I see a bad Who episode is that, no matter how bad it gets, no episode of Doctor Who will ever be as bad as Torchwood was in general.