Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

[PixelMagic]

People may have gotten bored waiting three and four years between installments and moved onto other things. You have to strike while the iron is hot, something that seemed lost on Paramount and Bad Robot when Star Trek (2009) was a hit.

Very true. They went to all the trouble of rebooting Trek, and did a fair job, but then when 2012 came around, they said, "Oh, I guess we should make another one or something." Both Paramount and CBS don't know what the hell they are doing with Trek. I hope Discovery can right the ship.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Dr. Strange had the Marvel branding. It's not a "superhero nobody" movie, it's the next in a 40-something strong superhero franchise.

50-something, really. The actually Marvel Universe was born with Fantastic Four issue #1 in 1961.

Star Trek has a stigma, it always will. One that Star Wars and Marvel don't have. When you have a fanbase that argues over whether or not to be called "Trekkies" or "Trekkers" you've got the cold hand of "uncool" all over you.

A lot of fans have really taken to Beyond because it more the most "Trek-like" of the Bad Robot films. Maybe that's what kept the greater audiences away?

Hell, if I knew how to make a successful Trek film, I'd tell Paramount. It seems to be a crap shoot. Or has to involve Time Travel...

 

[Smellmet]

50-something, really. The actually Marvel Universe was born with Fantastic Four issue #1 in 1961.

Star Trek has a stigma, it always will. One that Star Wars and Marvel don't have. When you have a fanbase that argues over whether or not to be called "Trekkies" or "Trekkers" you've got the cold hand of "uncool" all over you.

A lot of fans have really taken to Beyond because it more the most "Trek-like" of the Bad Robot films. Maybe that's what kept the greater audiences away?

Hell, if I knew how to make a successful Trek film, I'd tell Paramount. It seems to be a crap shoot. Or has to involve Time Travel...

At this juncture it feels like it's a puzzle that will never be solved. I just don't know where the franchise can go from here. We've had three pretty banging blockbusters, the last of which has underperformed financially, just throwing more explosions at the next one won't work. It needs a smarter story.

 

[BillJ]

It needs a smarter story.

What would be a "smarter story"? Trek was never as intellectual as some folks make it out to be. Considering its biggest hit was Star Trek Into Darkness, I'd say the stories need to have stakes for the universe at large that general audiences will care about.

Maybe the Klingon war comes to Earth and Kirk is forced to wake Khan and his followers to help save the day?

 

[ancient]

TWOK was a smarter story, and the powers that be tried for years to replicate its success by having more revenge & shooting in their productions.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

What would be a "smarter story"? Trek was never as intellectual as some folks make it out to be. Considering its biggest hit was Star Trek Into Darkness, I'd say the stories need to have stakes for the universe at large that general audiences will care about.

Maybe the Klingon war comes to Earth and Kirk is forced to wake Khan and his followers to help save the day?

Wasn't that the reason Marcus had him thawed out anyway?

 

[Smellmet]

I'd say the stories need to have stakes for the universe at large that general audiences will care about

Absolutely, but another generic bad guy of the week simply won't cut the mustard any more. I kind of like your khan/Klingon idea and have been thinking about something along those lines myself whilst pondering the future of the franchise. I dunno, beyonds underperfomance reminds me of 1998 all over again. It needs shaking up a little if there's to be a fourth instalment. It needs to matter more.

 

[Paradise City]

TWOK was simpler and paced well. It allowed the tension to develop. It's relative simplicity commends it.

I don't think it was smart exactly. Kahn and Kirk do some very dumb and implausible things at critical stages. But I do think they acted well with the material they were given.

 

[BillJ]

Wasn't that the reason Marcus had him thawed out anyway?

Maybe have Kirk reflect a bit on having to thaw Khan after all.

TWOK was simpler and paced well. It allowed the tension to develop. It's relative simplicity commends it.

I don't think it was smart exactly. Kahn and Kirk do some very dumb and implausible things at critical stages. But I do think they acted well with the material they were given.

Shatner and Montalban save The Wrath of Khan. They chew scenery at warp speed!

 

[ancient]

TWOK was simpler and paced well. It allowed the tension to develop. It's relative simplicity commends it.

I don't think it was smart exactly. Kahn and Kirk do some very dumb and implausible things at critical stages. But I do think they acted well with the material they were given.

I think being effective is a form of being smart.

 

[fireproof78]

Absolutely, but another generic bad guy of the week simply won't cut the mustard any more. I kind of like your khan/Klingon idea and have been thinking about something along those lines myself whilst pondering the future of the franchise. I dunno, beyonds underperfomance reminds me of 1998 all over again. It needs shaking up a little if there's to be a fourth instalment. It needs to matter more.

But, it was already shaken up not even a decade ago!
It tired something different, made some money, and then was left to sit and rot. It tried to be relevant, but ten years too late with ID. It tried to be more simple in Beyond and it was panned.

Being a Paramount exec must be excruciating work.

TWOK was simpler and paced well. It allowed the tension to develop. It's relative simplicity commends it.

I don't think it was smart exactly. Kahn and Kirk do some very dumb and implausible things at critical stages. But I do think they acted well with the material they were given.

The production values and Meyer's crazy BTS work helped a lot as well. The story was tropy and Khan was reduced to 1-dimension, but it worked very well, and was memorable. But, it really can't be replicated because the pressures that were there simply are not there right now.

Maybe, after Beyond, they are, but Star Trek has this pressure, I guess, to be about something. TWOK was about revenge. It drew upon classic literature, Paradise Lost, Moby Dick, Shakespeare, to craft its characters. But, that's not a social commentary-it's an entertaining story.

I don't know the answer, but I think constantly looking back upon TWOK and it's long shadow is going to hurt the franchise going forward.

 

[Smellmet]

But, it was already shaken up not even a decade ago!
It tired something different, made some money, and then was left to sit and rot. It tried to be relevant, but ten years too late with ID. It tried to be more simple in Beyond and it was panned.

Being a Paramount exec must be excruciating work.

The production values and Meyer's crazy BTS work helped a lot as well. The story was tropy and Khan was reduced to 1-dimension, but it worked very well, and was memorable. But, it really can't be replicated because the pressures that were there simply are not there right now.

Maybe, after Beyond, they are, but Star Trek has this pressure, I guess, to be about something. TWOK was about revenge. It drew upon classic literature, Paradise Lost, Moby Dick, Shakespeare, to craft its characters. But, that's not a social commentary-it's an entertaining story.

I don't know the answer, but I think constantly looking back upon TWOK and it's long shadow is going to hurt the franchise going forward.

I don't mean for a second shaken up to the degree of the 09 movie in comparison to the prime stuff, but yet another bad guy wanting Revenge against the federation is getting real tired, real quick. There's a wealth of stories and styles that trek can do, and this is just one of them. Look how the voyage home turned out (not that I'm asking for a comedy, but you see my point). Striking gold with general audiences seems difficult for trek at times but it's done it before. I'm not even against an antagonist in some form, but another motivation other than revenge is needed, be it political, territorial or something else.

 

[RAMA]

Japan brings in another $1 million. Almost up to $343 million.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't mean for a second shaken up to the degree of the 09 movie in comparison to the prime stuff, but yet another bad guy wanting Revenge against the federation is getting real tired, real quick. There's a wealth of stories and styles that trek can do, and this is just one of them. Look how the voyage home turned out (not that I'm asking for a comedy, but you see my point). Striking gold with general audiences seems difficult for trek at times but it's done it before. I'm not even against an antagonist in some form, but another motivation other than revenge is needed, be it political, territorial or something else.

Unfortunately, Star Trek films have labored under this since TUC.

 

[Ssosmcin]

But, it was already shaken up not even a decade ago!
It tired something different, made some money, and then was left to sit and rot. It tried to be relevant, but ten years too late with ID. It tried to be more simple in Beyond and it was panned.

Panned? Not at all, the film got great reviews. It just didn't resonate with the public for whatever reason. Blame it on the ad campaign, the overcorded summer, the lack of freshness or maybe the public at large doesn't care about Star Trek anymore. Whatever the reason, also factor in that Paramount has had a very bad year. It's a shame, because this was one of the best reviewed Star Trek films in the movie franchise.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Next Star Trek villians could be a cryogenicaly frozen Hillary or Trump.

Sorry just having some fun.

 

[fireproof78]

Panned? Not at all, the film got great reviews. It just didn't resonate with the public for whatever reason. Blame it on the ad campaign, the overcorded summer, the lack of freshness or maybe the public at large doesn't care about Star Trek anymore. Whatever the reason, also factor in that Paramount has had a very bad year. It's a shame, because this was one of the best reviewed Star Trek films in the movie franchise.

"Panned" might be the wrong word, but I thought it would do better. It had something for everyone, in my opinion. Though, I thought 09 was better and better reviewed.

Next Star Trek villians could be a cryogenicaly frozen Hillary or Trump.

Sorry just having some fun.

 

[M'Sharak]

Next Star Trek villians could be a cryogenicaly frozen Hillary or Trump.

Sorry just having some fun.

Keep the politics out of this forum, please.

You have other forums for that.

 

[BillJ]

Though, I thought 09 was better and better reviewed.

I think both movies (2009 and Into Darkness) ended up with better reviews than Beyond.

 

[Nyotarules]

Next Star Trek villians could be a cryogenicaly frozen Hillary or Trump.

Sorry just having some fun.

Trump awakes - Did we make America great again?
Kirk - Yep and we run the Federation