Robert Beltran says the Prime Directive is 'fascist crap'

[Paradise City]

Well, a ray that makes everyone young and healthy is just bullshit anyway. It has nothing to do with science, even fictitious science. Fairy tales, yes, science, hell no!

Well, I think of it as a fantasy element and there's lots of fantasy in the various incarnations of Trek. Lot's of instances of magical de-aging and instant cures from disfiguring ailments...etc. It's not really something that fazes me personally. I see this movie as a good TV movie rather than any kind of sweeping epic fit for the cinema.

 

[locutus101]

Well, I think of it as a fantasy element and there's lots of fantasy in the various incarnations of Trek. Lot's of instances of magical de-aging and instant cures from disfiguring ailments...etc. It's not really something that fazes me personally. I see this movie as a good TV movie rather than any kind of sweeping epic fit for the cinema.

I agree, it would have been passable as a tng episode, even a two parter.

 

[KelisThePoet]

If you would insist on a benchmark, wouldn't some kind of sociological development standard make more sense? A philosophic achievement, verses a propulsion mechanism.

Yes, a warp drive might push the issue, they can now come to you. But it should not be the prime predetermining criteria.

There's no reason why any alien civilization should meet a sociological or philosophical benchmark imposed by the Federation. The idea of such a benchmark implies that every society will or should progress in the same way and that the Federation knows what that way should be. That's cultural imperialism, albeit in a passive-aggressive form, since the Federation policy is not so much to push alien civilizations into becoming more like them, rather to wait on the assumption alien civilizations will become more like them.

By contrast, a technological standard such as warp capability makes sense in determining which civilizations to engage and which to leave alone, because that standard is not necessarily any kind of benchmark toward societal progress. It's just an indication that the alien civilization is advanced enough that it won't be overpowered and bullied by Starfleet officers who engage with it.

So, I don't object to using warp capability as the standard. I object to labeling a civilization as pre-warp, which implies it must become warp capable at some time in its future.

 

[locutus101]

If warp was a real thing then we could assume that any civilization capable of doing some scientific research would eventually find it. Just as the Mayans made similar discoveries as European civilizations did, even thought there were no contacts between the two peoples for about fifty thousand years.

 

[KelisThePoet]

Not necessarily. The Mayans never invented the wheel. Neither did any other American civilization before European contact. Technologically advanced civilizations don't all follow the same course in their technological innovations.

 

[locutus101]

Not necessarily. The Mayans never invented the wheel. Neither did any other American civilization before European contact. Technologically advanced civilizations don't all follow the same course in their technological innovations.

I think I've read that the Mayans knew about the wheel, they just didn't see any practical use for it.

 

[KelisThePoet]

If that's true, it proves my point that different civilizations make different choices about what technology to develop, so there's no reason to assume they'd all see a use for warp drive.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If warp was a real thing then we could assume that any civilization capable of doing some scientific research would eventually find it. Just as the Mayans made similar discoveries as European civilizations did, even thought there were no contacts between the two peoples for about fifty thousand years.

Warp was a threshold for the Federation introducing themselves to new friends, and admitting that aliens exist everywhere else in the Galaxy, as soon as their new friends had the one tool they needed to head out into space and see for themselves that the universe is densely packed with life.

If the Federation didn't say "Hi, how you doing" as these friends are getting ready to head into space, in a week or a month, they'd meet in space anyway at a toll bridge, a weigh station, a neutral zone or a demilitarized zone.

It's like how you shouldn't buy a car, before you have your driver's license.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Is ST fascist?

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[locutus101]

Warp was a threshold for the Federation introducing themselves to new friends, and admitting that aliens exist everywhere else in the Galaxy, as soon as their new friends had the one tool they needed to head out into space and see for themselves that the universe is densely packed with life.

If the Federation didn't say "Hi, how you doing" as these friends are getting ready to head into space, in a week or a month, they'd meet in space anyway at a toll bridge, a weigh station, a neutral zone or a demilitarized zone.

It's like how you shouldn't buy a car, before you have your driver's license.

I believe you shouldn't get a driver's license before you can afford a car.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Children have their parents car, and mostly sober people just have to befriend a lot of drunks, which quickly turns into a job of sorts.

 

[locutus101]

Children have their parents car, and mostly sober people just have to befriend a lot of drunks, which quickly turns into a job of sorts.

Why would a mostly sober person want to know drunks?

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you plan on leaving the house to drink...

Sober friend who likes to party vs. Taxi/Uber/bus vs. drunk driving, and maybe murder someone or lose your license for a year vs. Short straw doesn't drink/take turns not drinking vs. Walk home.

The sober friend, gets free orange juice, and probably a free meal or two, and free every thing else. It's profitable to stay in the company of alcoholics.

 

[Tenacity]

Being sober makes it easier to pick up drunk chicks.

 

[locutus101]

Being sober makes it easier to pick up drunk chicks.

It's like that guy who says to a girl: "Alcohol my dear, becomes you!"

"But I didn't drink!"

"I did."

 

[Ovation]

Being sober makes it easier to pick up drunk chicks.

Stay classy.

 

[2takesfrakes]

It's like that guy who says to a girl: "Alcohol my dear, becomes you!"

"But I didn't drink!"

"I did."

>>SNORT!!!<<

That's called "putting your Beer Goggles on"!

 

[locutus101]

>>SNORT!!!<<

That's called "putting your Beer Goggles on"!

Very good!

 

[Paradise City]

From the PD is 'fascist' to the importance of remaining sober so as to pick up drunks. One hecka of thread this one, I gotta tell you.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Beltran thinks that Cortes annihilating the Aztecs was cool?