Excessive Criticism of "STAR TREK VOYAGER"

[Sophie74656]

I agree with the OP, and I will venture one big reason. I don't think it is any coincidence with what the OP has described that this is the only show with a woman captain. Believe me, I am pretty non-PC and I am usually the last one to see sexism or racism in something; I see many people be oversensitive to things that are not even remotely, in my opinion, sexism or racism. But in this case, I simply don't believe that the captain being a woman didn't have a lot to do with the weird Voyager hate I remember from the get-go, for a show that is on-the-whole well crafted and engagingly acted and written. It isn't like Mulgrew is a poor actor! She's a good one! Way better than Avery Brooks (which, I admit, is not saying much, but it goes to my point).

I honestly feel that a big part of the Voyager hate was Trek burnout. TNG overlapped DS9 which overlapped Voyager, and then there were all the movies. I have always felt that if they didn't overlap, or if there was even a year, or half a year in between the shows it might have been better. People could have built up a hunger for Trek. Plus you had a lot of the same writers working on all the shows so there were many story elements that were reused.

 

[Greg Cox]

There was the also the issue that VOYAGER suffered in comparison to DS9 when it came to trying to do something new and different with STAR TREK. For better or for worse, VOYAGER felt like a step back . . . and the opposite of new and cutting-edge. And the fact that the show seemed to be actively running away from its own premise to be more like TNG.

It's not that VOYAGER was "worse' than TNG; it was just that it was playing it safe by sticking to a formula that TNG had already milked for seven seasons, and that, by the time VOYAGER came around, felt somewhat old-fashioned compared to its contemporaries: The X-Files, Buffy, Xena, Farscape, etc.

It was STAR TREK as comfort food, which, granted, is not always a bad thing.

 

[TheGoodStuff]

I absolutely adore Voyager. As a Trekkie, I find it sad how heavily, nay, ridiculously over-criticised Voyager actually is.

I have it ranked #3 in my list but I frequently point out to people: it is 3rd going on 1st. On it's day, it's actually my favourite. I love the characters [esp. Janeway, Torres & Seven] and the acting is some of the best in the franchise [Mulgrew, Ryan, Picardo & Dawson]. It's my favourite ship [the Intrepid to me is gorgeous and makes engineering sense]. I also love Janeway [I have posted before, I agree with her major decisions: Tuvix/Equinox etc, and found her character fascinating] and I feel she too gets a ridiculously bad rap from some people who seem to forgive Picard leaving a planet to die, Sisko murdering people left and right and Kirk giggling at episode's end despite a few crewmen being slaughtered. I also really appreciated B'elanna being a vehicle for mental health issues, Tom being an ex-jailbird, Seven struggling with her humanity after having so much robbed from her...there is a human element to Voyager the others don't quite have [except DS9].

I don't want to trivialise anyone's opinions, but sometimes I do feel that there is an ELEMENT of Voyager critics who are holding views formed by quite a sexist outlook.

I think some people just wanted it to be dark [way too dark in my opinion] where they would be practically starving to death on a ship that was wrecked/looked nothing like it did in season one, with half the crew dead from skirmishes etc. I'm glad they didn't go down that route to be honest as I think the more positive Trek-feel shines through in Voyager as a result, without it being all doom and gloom.

I do accept that they could have been more mindful of resources etc but I'm not really interested in counting shuttles and torpedos and, to be frank, I can totally accept that they have the ability to build new ones if needed.

I remember a few years ago on ST.com they did a poll along the lines of: "What Trek was your first love?" and Voyager won by a landslide. I think it drew many women into the franchise, which is a great thing. I think also, unlike many of the other shows, Voyager's cast felt more 'real', or likeable. They bickered, they were funny, they romanced...it was fun. DS9 is very dark compared to the others, TNG is very perfect, ENT bombed and TOS just doesn't hold up very well. Voyager, instead of being 'TNG-Lite' as some view it...was more like 'Trek-Real' to some people I think.

I'd also point out as an aside, these boards do seem to have quite a negative view of Voyager but that isn't actually the case throughout the internet. Other sites fawn over it.

I also think the fact it ran for 7 seasons says something about it's popularity.

 

[Nyotarules]

I don't think the criticism of VOY is any more excessive than ENT. I was not aware ENT had so much hate when it aired, until I started surfing the net, but then I enjoyed all the Star Trek shows warts and all and let's be honest TOS only gets a pass from fans cos it was the first. If those same TOS scripts were written today they would not make it to seven seasons either. There were some good episodes and some that were ridiculous (Spock's Brain anyone?)

 

[MacLeod]

Isn't one of the biggest critisims of VOY, geat premise poorly execucted? So why is that for some it is because the premise leaned towards a more heavily searilised approach yet what we got was a more episodic show. The problem with Janeway was not that she was a woman but that she was inconsistantly written. One week it was seemingly we will uphold the PD the next screw the PD.

Another factor to consider is for some VOY was their fourth Star Trek show and with getting on the order of 300 episodes watched they might find several of the episodes rehashes of previous stories done with varying degrees of success for others it was their first Trek show, so they didn't have those hundreds of episode behind them so it might have seemed fresh.

Then there was the resource issue or lack thereof. A lack of resource scould have created many storytelling opportunites but the writers took the easy way out and decided to ignore the issue of limited resources, which some could infer as treating the audiance as idiots. No matter how much of a beating the ship took, it nearly always looked like it had just left Utopia the following episode.

It's great that some love VOY for what it was but for me it could have been so much more. The show itslef did have several great episodes but most episodes were largely average

 

[Greg Cox]

To a degree, the shows are judged in the context of their times. TOS was great compared to LOST IN SPACE and VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. And can't really be compared to shows made two decades later. Apples and oranges.

Similarly, VOYAGER would have been fresh and exciting had it aired in 1987 instead of TNG. But by 1997, it too often felt like more of the same. (Unlike DS9, which went to great lengths to do something different.) So it took some flack for that.

 

[MacLeod]

From memory DSN also took some flack esp in the early days including pre-production days. I.e But it's set on a space station they don't go anywhere etc...

 

[BlueStuff]

I'm currently on my first watch-through of Voyager - most recent episode seen was 5x01 "Night" - and here are my general thoughts:

- The characters can be quaint and inoffensive but largely not emotionally engaging. As a whole, I don't quite enjoy simply hanging out in the presence of this crew as much as I do for some of the other series. That said I find them fun enough in the right plot. Favourite characters are the Doctor and Seven, with a little bit of Tom Paris. The rest I'm generally apathetic towards.I like Janeway, and Mulgrew's performance, but she seems a little inconsistent in her characterisation.
- The first season had some promise as I liked the initial premise of the show, but over time I think the show has up to this point failed to really make of the most of its Delta Quadrant setting. While I'm quite partial to adventure-Trek, I feel that there have been a relative lack of interesting plots of this kind which is a shame; the crew consistently encounters new races, worlds etc but very few of them have seemed worthwhile or entertaining. The Kazon and Seska were very poor antagonists and unfortunately occupy most of my memory of seasons 2-3, which largely felt bland and forgettable on the whole, with some episodic exceptions.
- Too much technobabble and sci-fi silliness acting as the direct solution of many of the main problems in a given episode.
- I liked Jennifer Lien but I thought Kes was a poor character and the writing got worse for her each year, this was unfortunate as she also got more and more prominent.
- I think the visual style is a little generic, and doesn't seem to evolve season to season.

Now, this all may come across as flaming; certainly I'm not a regular on this forum and it may seem as though I've just come in to heap a lot of criticism on the show. That wasn't my intention; I still enjoy the show and am glad I finally got round to watching it. It simply must be said that I have more problems with VOY thus far than I did for the other series. That all said, there are some positives to draw from what I've seen most recently:

- The fourth season was a big improvement from the first three in terms of consistency, material, and overall entertainment value. I think Seven replacing Kes was an excellent move; for me she's a far superior character and brilliantly acted to boot. It has really helped VOY to discover its own identity and I'm thankful for that. I'm looking forward to the last three seasons in a way that I wasn't as enthusiastic during the first three years. It feels like VOY has really found itself by this point. I'm reminded of how it felt like DS9 truly came into its own from season 4 onwards and indeed, the "real" DS9 was arguably from that point on.

My favourite episodes of VOY so far, in no particular order:

Living Witness
Year of Hell
Distant Origin
Scorpion
Projections
Death Wish

My least favourite episodes, again in no real order:

Elogium
Threshold
Tattoo
Cathexis
Nemesis
Unforgettable


So, seasons 5-7 to go. Thanks to anyone who made it reading this far, bash away if you disagree. I can take it.

 

[Vandervecken]

I think also, unlike many of the other shows, Voyager's cast felt more 'real', or likeable. They bickered, they were funny, they romanced...it was fun. DS9 is very dark compared to the others, TNG is very perfect, ENT bombed and TOS just doesn't hold up very well. Voyager, instead of being 'TNG-Lite' as some view it...was more like 'Trek-Real' to some people I think.

I felt this too. To me they really seemed like a varied and to some extent ragtag bunch thrown together by fate. They weren't the "flagship of the Federation" and that made them more accessible.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I'm quite fond of VOYAGER. I never got the complaints about the show, generally. As with everything, you can find faults and we love having a go at them, sometimes, but that's Creative Differences for you. But Chakotay's one of my most favourite characters in STAR TREK. I'd love to have seen more done with him. Uhm ... I don't know ... I hate B'Elanna's makeup, but I love her to pieces.

I don't care for Neelix, though. I think he embraced his status as Court Jester with too much exuberance and not enough discernment. He looked so animalistic in appearance to me, that I would've preferred to see him as a kind of half-savage, like somebody out of Mad Max: Fury Road, or something like that ... but with a heart of gold! Especially, if he had to be paired with Kes, she could've revealed his softer side, more, even when he didn't want it showing. That would've been sweet.

But otherwise, what the hell? People try to knock VOY for being rather naked about it's being a TNG spinoff. But I love it, for that! It's like The Further Adventures, to me. I would've preferred that their plight in the Delta Quadrant was more desperate ... that sort of thing. But VOY did alright ...

 

[OldManDoom]

I don't think the criticism of VOY is any more excessive than ENT. I was not aware ENT had so much hate when it aired, until I started surfing the net, but then I enjoyed all the Star Trek shows warts and all and let's be honest TOS only gets a pass from fans cos it was the first. If those same TOS scripts were written today they would not make it to seven seasons either. There were some good episodes and some that were ridiculous (Spock's Brain anyone?)

Probably an unpopular opinion regarding TOS, but I agree. Sometimes writing is plain bad, regardless of what time period it's from.

 

[Tosk]

I loved the concept of Voyager. Didn't dig the execution much though. And I didn't care for most of the characters as written.

You can make up all manner of excuses as to why "maybe" VOY gets hated on, but at a certain point you just have to accept that it happens because a lot of people didn't like it. DS9 used to get shit on all the time too (seems to be shifting in recent years) and then ENT ate a heap of it too for a decade. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[WebLurker]

I never had a problem with VOY myself, although I find the later seasons more enjoyable than the earlier ones (maybe because I saw those primarily when starting out, and Seven is a more interesting character than Kes, IMHO?)

As far as it being just TNG-lite, well I liked TNG and seeing new characters do the same kinds of things was fun to me. After all, TOS, TNG, VOY, and ENT are all based on the same basic premise that Star Trek is mainly about: a ship exploring space. The differences are the settings. So, VOY was supposed to be TNG-lite, because Star Trek is TNG-lite, so to speak.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I like VOY but it didn't grip me like DS9 and it wasn't as purely enjoyable as TNG. It seemed like a step back and, in general, the actors weren't as good in VOY as the previous 2.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The internet was taking off and people were learning that they could moan about TV shows from their PC. Enterprise got it worse. By the time of the Trek reboot and now the forthcoming Discovery, anyone can post online from their phone while taking a dump.

If we could have done that in the late '80s, Next Gen would have been savaged. Heck, there are old Interstat fanzine letters using the word "rape" with regard to Wrath of Khan.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I was disappointed by Voyager. It could've been great, showing our heroes holding onto their beliefs and principles against harrowing odds as they struggled to survive, in the face of unknown dangers on their own, a situation no one would blame them for cutting corners, especially with terrorists comprising a chunk of the crew. Their voyage across the DQ just came across as too easy to me, without much in the way of serious obstacles or challenges--though the episodic format was a big part of that problem, it's definitely a show where a continuing narrative would've worked better.

Hate is a strong word--definitely not for applying to Voyager (or even Enterprise for that matter, though that's another problem altogether).

 

[stardream]

As much as I like Voyager I admit freely that DS9 was a better-written show. Voyager was shown in tandem with DS9 for several seasons and I'm sure it was hard not to compare the two.

I honestly don't think people have a problem with the Captain being a woman. They had a problem, as others have said, with no consistent characterization of Janeway. Part of that had to do with the writers being unable to meld the idea that she was the Captain who happened to be a woman. The writers on DS9 were successful in portraying Sisko as The Captain who happened to be black but for some reason they couldn't hit that medium with Janeway. She was the WOMAN Captain.

If they had actually written a 'Janeway is cracking under the strain' arc for her that might have gone down better. As it was she was swinging this way and that ....I've heard Mulgrew just decided to invent a character arc for her and play her as bi-polar but I haven't found any confirmation for that at the moment.

 

[Sophie74656]

I always thought that she struggled with their situation, or rather her placing them in their situation. She felt completely responsible for stranding them in the DQ, she questioned her choices.

 

[Sophie74656]

As much as I like Voyager I admit freely that DS9 was a better-written show. Voyager was shown in tandem with DS9 for several seasons and I'm sure it was hard not to compare the two.

I honestly don't think people have a problem with the Captain being a woman. They had a problem, as others have said, with no consistent characterization of Janeway. Part of that had to do with the writers being unable to meld the idea that she was the Captain who happened to be a woman. The writers on DS9 were successful in portraying Sisko as The Captain who happened to be black but for some reason they couldn't hit that medium with Janeway. She was the WOMAN Captain.

If they had actually written a 'Janeway is cracking under the strain' arc for her that might have gone down better. As it was she was swinging this way and that ....I've heard Mulgrew just decided to invent a character arc for her and play her as bi-polar but I haven't found any confirmation for that at the moment.

In terms of the writing between DS9 and Voyager, they are my two favorite series and both had amazing episodes. I have always felt that DS9 was consistantly good, with a few great episodes. Voyager had more great episodes in my opinion, but they also had many bad episodes. So i would say that DS9 consistantly stayed around an 8, Voyager was consistantly around a 7 but had some 10s and some 1s. Does that make sense?

 

[flandry84]

Personally I don't dislike Voyager I just don't hold it in much regard.Perhaps it's because the show could and should have been so much better.
I just get the feeling that it was Treklit-by-the-numbers,safe,cosy and never trying too hard.
Plus the absence(to my mind at least) of any truly likeable characters.Paris was too smug,Kim(ugh!wetter than a day under the sea),Neelix...yeah...just Neelix..

I kept waiting for the show (and the Treklit version) to improve and it just didn't.It took me years but I just hopped off the Voyager bus altogether,lured here by your thread title.