Couldn't be what?
Spock DID Get Emotional in this Show!!!
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
- Start date
I'm not sure what Nimoy's best job ever has to do with T'Pol. Yes she stayed emotional throughout but her initial arrogance is actually what makes her interesting to me. She has to overcome that and her prejudices about humans. Basically, a female version of Mr Darcy.
Speaking of Mr Darcy, I wonder why women put him on a pedestal while men don't do the same with female characters who are similar.
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I was referencing that Leonard Nimoy did a VERY good job with the character of Spock.
T'Pol couldn't be completely emotionless, like Sarek, who was completely Vulcan (I believe.) In the Star Trek: Enterprise relaunch novels, it is revealed that she and T'Pau had Romulan parents (I could be wrong.)
One might argue that even the most disciplined Vulcan has emotions. They just don't express them.
I'm not sure why you quoted my post. I don't see anything in this one that was a response in any way to mine.
Bringing up The Cage is kind of nonsense. It was the very first pilot. Nimoy was doing a character that had never been done before. Watch Encounter at Farpoint and see how awkward and out of character people are. It usually takes a show or two to get things into gear, although Nimoy had it down by The Corbomite Maneuver.
In The Naked Time, Spock was emotional because he was literally under the influence of a behavior changing virus, and the beautiful emotional roller coaster ride he went through gave us all huge insight into the character.
Remember him struggling and repeating" I am in CONTROL of my emotions" ?
THAT IS SPOCK.
Apparently Nimoy's fan mail doubled after that episode.
When Spock tried to beat up Kirk in TOS he was under the influences of a spore that messed up his mind. In the movie, Spock beat up Kirk because he was simply pissed off at him. Then he booted him off the ship! (obviously so Kirk could land on Delta Vega and conveniently meet Old Spock and Scotty)
BIG difference.
NUSpock seems to be emotional in every single film, there is no real inner struggle to NOT show emotion, there is no embarrassment when he does, there is no consistently looking down his nose at humanity in order to deny his own humanity. There is no constantly making genuinely funny sarcastic comments at humanity's expense. There is no reminding humanity how they have messed up throughout history.
When you watch Nimoy he is completely stone faced with an undercurrent of suppressed emotion, that peeks out occasionally. When you look at Quinto he appears to be in a constant state of brooding, and seems completely emotional as if he could crack a smile or get angry at any moment (and he does)
There is also no sense that he is a lonely outsider. He even gets to have a super hot girlfriend! That loneliness was a huge part of the character's popularity as many people could identify with being an awkward outsider, to one degree or another.
A lot of the wonderful qualities and subtle nuances of the character created by Roddenberry, Nimoy and all of the writers are mostly lost here. These are the qualities that made the character a Science Fiction legend.
So far, NuSpock generally bounces back and forth from these states:
-very angry
-slightly pissy
-mildly humorous.
That is it.
A very large part of the charm and pathos of all of these characters is that they are all alone. They have given up everything, family, stability, and romance in order to serve in Starfleet. They only have each other. They hold Starfleet in such high regard that they are willing to have nothing in order to be a part of it. Whereas NUKirk doesn't take Starfleet seriously at all, McCoy constantly complains about it, and Scotty was banished by Starfleet to Delta Vega.
One frustration is that I think all of the actors have the potential to do wonderful work but unfortunately the Hollywood Reboot Cookie Cutter has to dumb things down in order to make a "popcorn flick" which in their estimation, will make the most money. They dare not offend us knuckle draggers with interesting concepts, 3 dimensional characters, or philosophical notions.
It's a business, I get it.
The sad truth is that they DON'T have to.
Lord of the Rings made a ton of money and was beautifully written.
At the end of the day I'm very happy that they are making Star Trek movies and keeping it relevant.
I just think they can do a lot better when it comes to the writing.
So, let the finger pointing and "hater labeling" begin!
Spockboy
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and the biggest single thing I hate about Quinto-Spock is him sucking face with Uhura, and having the physical relationship that it implies. It's hedonistic, it's pleasure-seeking, and Nimoy-Spock (my Spock) would not be doing it.
The only way I can appreciate JJ-Trek is to compartmentalize it. I see it as a saga entirely contained in an alternate universe that never connects with the TOS universe. Different everything, including Old Spock. It's just not the same people.
In a lighter vein, my take is that Nimoy-Spock is like Hamlet, and Quinto-Spock is like Gilligan singing Hamlet to the tune of Carmen. It's not the same thing and it's not supposed to be.
What sort of relationship do you think Sarek and Amanda had?
I think it's the difference in the delivery. Quinto's Spock always seems more like an angry version of Data or something. Nimoy's Spock was cool because he was just telling you what was what but just in a controlled manner. I get Quinto's is younger but he just comes across as a jerk.
Married. And they would only get frisky in private.
Nu-Spock acts like he wouldn't mind him and Uhura doing it in the road.
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Why can't Old Spock be from the Prime universe? Y'know, Old Spock travels back in time and skips to a parallel universe!
That scenario also side-steps many of the issues associated with conventional time travel (and divergent timelines) that we've been discussing over in the other thread:http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-snag-in-the-city.282701/page-2
Well, it would mean that Old Spock doesn't know where he really is (he thinks he's still in the Shatnerverse), and that's a bit out of character. But I can go that far with JJ-Trek and not see it hurting anything.
Old Spock doesn't really have enough information to go on either way, so he is reliant on guesswork. However, it is interesting that he doesn't attempt to return to his own timeline at the end of the movie or to "correct" the changes in his own timeline. The implication may be that he's figured out he's in a parallel universe and thus can ethically make his retirement home in the Kelvinverse.
Agreed. But once the original pilot was chopped up and put into "The Menagerie", one has to account for the differences in the character, in universe. And using those elements doesn't go against the flow of the overall show.
Spock was simply younger and half-human. Still learning who he was. Leaving for Starfleet against his father's wishes was an emotional act of defiance.
Amanda and Sarek did the finger thing right there in the open. They seemed to be a caring and affectionate couple.
Did I see a different movie? Spock isn't exactly a horndog groping and grabbing Uhura at every chance . The PDA between him and Uhura is pretty SFW.
In Journey to Babel, it looked to me like Sarek was tolerantly accepting that public affection with the fingers was part of keeping his human wife happy. I wouldn't conclude that Vulcan-Vulcan couples were so affectionate in public. My take from Amok Time was that Vulcans only mate every seven years, so Spock persuing Uhura was wildly inappropriate unless there's a timeline justification for that movie being during Spock's 7-year cycle. And Amanda is pretty much a saint for settling for sex only every 7 years, no matter how much genuine caring and affection in their marriage there is the rest of the time.
The seven year cycle is from "The Cloud Minders." The writer probably misremembered the line in "Amok Time" where Spock says that he and T'Pring were bonded at age 7, conflated it with the line about eelbirds returning home every 11 years, and thus the idea that Vulcans go into heat once every seven years was created.
I always found that the sex only every 7 years during Ponn Farr seemed to me to mean that no matter what Vulcans need to bone every 7 years but that regular "alone time" with a mate could prevent a Ponn Farr from becoming a fight, screw, or die situation every 7 years. Or else why aren't Vulcan families huge? Tuvok only ever mentioned missing his wife and few kids, not his massive litter of children.
