Republican Candidates for 2016 Race

[IronWaffle]

Your quote reminds me of the final scene (spoilers) for the early-1970s film, The Candidate.

I mean, I have these visions of Trump winning the election, then sitting down at his desk in the Oval Office and thinking to himself..."So what do I do now?"

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[Note: Hard to believe, but I wrote 900 more words for this post. Saved 'em elsewhere but decided not to post. Nothing terribly finger-pointing, but just in case...]

 

[JeffinOakland]

Trump has more in common with Rand Paul than he does with Hillary Clinton. At least they both somewhat understand that the Constitution is a timeless document. I don't vote by party, though I am in one, but I stand for principles and I will vote for the person who can win AND has the closest principles to mine.

What principles?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

[Note: Hard to believe, but I wrote 900 more words for this post. Saved 'em elsewhere but decided not to post. Nothing terribly finger-pointing, but just in case...]

It's up to you to decide to post it or not, but I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[fonzob1]

Have you actually been watching the convention itself, or just listening to the delusional regurgitated propaganda of Dear Leader's brainwashed spokesminions on the news? Because watching the convention itself, it's hard to arrive at the conclusion that Trump has had a "really strong showing," other than when he descended from the Close Encounters mothership at the beginning to address the people of Earth, because his ego would demand no less.

I was referring to strictly the convention. He did what he needed to do to gain more Republican support and maybe some independents. I consider that progress a strong showing because I was expecting something different.

Half the Republican Party refused to attend the convention out of disgust with the candidate (Sen. Sasse of Nebraska saying he would be taking his children on a tour of "dumpster fires" instead, and Sen. Flake of Arizona saying he'll be "mowing his lawn" that week), and the other half have given him the most reluctant, halfhearted endorsements possible, if they endorse him at all. Paul Ryan barely mentioned Trump and gave a speech about Republican values in general, a lot of which Trump doesn't hold. The first female space shuttle commander was supposed to talk about Trump in her speech (as it was presented to the press and entered in the Teleprompter) but just decided to skip it. Rambling idiot Sarah Palin didn't show up to get the attention she craves so much because as Trump said "Alaska is really far away." The entire gaggle of Bushes skipped the event. I guess Dubya was too busy fingerpainting and dancing jigs at cop's funerals to attend.

I don't think the absence hurt him very much with the voter base. While half of the "political insiders" on the right may not have shown up, much more than half of the Republican voter base is supporting him. He did have a record voter turnout for the primaries.

And how about that star power that Trump brought in to fill out the ranks because he didn't want too many boring politicians speaking (which they conveniently helped him with by not supporting him). It was a veritable who's who of "Who's that?" and who's not on mainstream TV anymore. How'd they manage to pull Antonio Sabato Jr. away from his latest Lifetime or SyFy Movie of the Week gig? And Scott Baio, wow. Is this a convention happening in 2016 or VH1's I Love the 80s? This lineup manages to make the "stars" on Dancing with the Stars actually look like real stars for once.

Then let's get to Trump's kids that "reflected so well on him." Uday and Qusay Trump come out, fresh off skinning alive some endangered African wildlife like the Predator and feeding on their lifeforce to gain power, and barely have a personal anecdote to share about their father. It's all about Gordon Gekko Jrs.' and Patrick Bateman's business relationship with their father, because that's what he is to them, a business partner. Even his other daughter Tiffany's (who he's only gotten closer to recently) one personal anecdote about her father was about him calling her when a friend of her's died because she was across the country living with the mother he cheated on and traded in for a younger model (literally). The one person who had any heartfelt remarks to say about Trump himself ironically demonstrated the separation that exists between him and his children, because she was the "personal assistant to the Trump kids" who had actually worked for them since childhood. I'm not saying the kids don't love him and he doesn't love his kids (we know how much he loves Ivanka in the totally wrong way. We know way too much about that) but the fact that their primary job was to humanize Trump and none of them could share any personal stories that did that is telling.

I don't presume to know those types of details regarding his relationship with his kids. I just know that they presented really well at the convention. It reflected well on him.

Then we get to the Melania plagiarism thing, which demonstrates what a flustercuck this campaign is for a number of reasons. First, any eighth-grader can download an app to compare the content of speeches to what's been written before, but apparently the people who want the nuclear codes can't. Secondly, you're supposed to be vetting her speech thoroughly multiple times with multiple aides, and it's obvious no one did. Thirdly, instead of just owning up to it, in which case everyone would have just moved on after some jokes on late-night TV, we got fifteen different explanations for what happened and blaming or shifting attention to everyone else from Michelle Obama to Twilight Sparkle from MLP to Kid Rock in one of the most bizarre interviews I've ever seen. Finally they owned up to it days later after the damage was done. And yes, Hillary Clinton's campaign has done stupid shit too; stipulated, but Trump has the most disorganized campaign I've ever seen, which speaks to his inability to lead. He doesn't even want to do the jobs we expect of the President, he wants to delegate those jobs to his VP and Cabinet while he takes more of a figurehead position like Queen.

I think the whole plagiarism deal is a non-issue at this point for most people who would consider voting for him.

Then we get to all the speakers who have made this entire convention a Salem Witch Trial about Hillary Clinton because they have nothing good to say about Trump. Half the speakers have called for Hillary to be thrown in prison while one called for her to be shot by a firing squad. Then they have the nerve to turn around and talk about the divisive rhetoric tearing this country apart? Granted, the Democratic Convention will also not say nice things about Trump, but I'm quite certain none of it will call for imprisoning him or killing him, and there will be plenty of speakers with actual personal anecdotes about Hillary Clinton and how she has helped them or helped her constituents, her state, and her country. Trump's lapdog Chris Christie, still reeling after being passed over for the VP job despite selling his soul to the Devil, I guess decided to audition for the Attorney General in Bane's Gotham City spot instead by holding an impromptu kangaroo court to convict Hillary Clinton. Then the lovechild of a gangbang between Sleepy, Dopey, Grumpy, and Doc from the Seven Dwarves; Ben Carson, said Hillary Clinton was indirectly in league with Lucifer himself. Donald Trump of course was pissed that such a prominent Republican as Satan would endorse Hillary instead of him. I kid because I love.

So yeah, "really strong showing." Just like North Korea's last harvest, said Trump's propagandists in their last report to Kim Jong-un before Trump used his lucrative Dennis Rodman connection to hire them to be his spokespeople instead.


Cruz is already the most hated man in Congress on both sides of the aisle, a fact which he gleefully cultivates and uses as a selling point, and a fact which his not-insignificant base loves about him, because like Trump voters they're all about anger and fear, sticking it to the establishment, and not caring that they're voting against their own self-interest. So I don't think he damages his potential future candidacy at all (quite the opposite), because the people who hate Trump now respect Cruz for sticking to his guns (literally), the Republicans who capitulated to Trump in the end have now been shamed and will have that used against them later, and only the people who already hated him are pissed about it (like the New York delegation who already didn't like him for his "New York Values" comments during the campaign).

Cruz' friends have grown fewer and fewer. I think he would have been better served by just skipping the convention.

Also, what makes him a "punk" (to quote Yanks) about not endorsing Trump? There's typical rival campaign rhetoric, which you expect and can forgive, and then there's Trump rhetoric, which is in a whole different league. Trump birther'd Cruz and said he shouldn't be President just like he did to Obama because Cruz was born in Canada. Trump insinuated that Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Trump has denigrated Latino-Americans repeatedly. Trump constantly called Cruz a liar. Not that Ted Cruz is much better, but why should he forgive and forget that kind of over-the-top hateful rhetoric being thrown his way?

I didn't see Trump denigrate Latinos. I only saw him state that people should only come to this country legally (regardless of ethnicity). One could certainly argue that the methods people use to come to this country illegally are not very safe for anyone.

 

[fonzob1]

Rand Paul will always be my favorite current politician, but I will vote for Donald Trump next November.

Rand Paul was the only politician I wanted to win the Presidency. He mostly has the ideology I look for in a candidate, but his campaign just never really took off.

 

[fonzob1]

I think what turns me off Trump as much as anything else, isn't necessarily the radicalism of his views (which I admit are extreme). I simply don't think he knows how to be President. I mean that in the most literal sense. What does he know about politics? Does he have a fucking CLUE about what the President's responsibilities might be? I'm deathly afraid that he doesn't. Trump, quite literally, does not know what to do if he were ever elected President.

I mean, I have these visions of Trump winning the election, then sitting down at his desk in the Oval Office and thinking to himself..."So what do I do now?"

How does anyone know how to be President? It's a unique job. Executive experience and foreign policy experience are usually what people look for on the resume. One thing that Trump might have going for him is that he has a reputation for placing highly qualified candidates in positions around him, so he will probably lean heavily on the staff around him.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I didn't see Trump denigrate Latinos. I only saw him state that people should only come to this country legally (regardless of ethnicity). One could certainly argue that the methods people use to come to this country illegally are not very safe for anyone.

Oh, c'mon, man. You never heard him denigrate Latinos? Ever?

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
–Real estate mogul Donald Trump, presidential announcement speech, June 16, 2015

“I can never apologize for the truth. I don’t mind apologizing for things. But I can’t apologize for the truth. I said tremendous crime is coming across. Everybody knows that’s true. And it’s happening all the time. So, why, when I mention, all of a sudden I’m a racist. I’m not a racist. I don’t have a racist bone in my body.”
–Trump, interview on Fox News’ “Media Buzz,” July 5, 2015

“What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.”
–Trump, statement about his June 16 comments, July 6, 2015

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

And then there's the wall and treating Mexicans like the damn White Walkers on Game of Thrones, here presented in musical form:

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- Net immigration from Mexico right now is next to zero, so no wall is even necessary.
- It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to build as he's simultaneously proposing tax cuts for the wealthy (oh, yeah, Mexico will pay for it and totally not the middle class, right) and tens of billions of dollars each year after that to man and maintain it.
- It would easily be bypassed because we have these amazing things called boats and two bodies of water called the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean on either side, plus, you know, planes and tunnels and tourist traffic. Or you could just take a flight to Canada and walk over that 3,000 mile open border. Guess we need another wall there too.
- Most undocumented immigrants don't come here by crossing the border illegally. They come here on a work, school, or visitor visa and then stay in the country after it lapses. So unless you're going to stop all work visas and ruin the economy that way too, you're not stopping a damn thing.
- He wants the wall to have his name on it, he even says as much in the video. The man is a modern day pharaoh building monuments to himself, with all the ego that requires.

Then there are the racist comments insinuating that Judge Curiel couldn't be impartial in the Trump U case because he was Mexican, even though he was born in Chicago and is every bit as much of an American as Trump is. And this was after the judge had delayed the case until after the primaries so that it would not interfere with Trump's chances of winning, which sounds pretty fair and impartial to me.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-judge-gonzalo-curiel-223849

There's a lot more than that, and that's not even including the things he and his campaign minions have said or done about Muslims, Jews, the disabled, women, blacks, and others, or the widespread support he has from white supremacist groups, which he only hesitantly disavows after media pressure is applied.

 

[fonzob1]

Oh, c'mon, man. You never heard him denigrate Latinos? Ever?

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
–Real estate mogul Donald Trump, presidential announcement speech, June 16, 2015

“I can never apologize for the truth. I don’t mind apologizing for things. But I can’t apologize for the truth. I said tremendous crime is coming across. Everybody knows that’s true. And it’s happening all the time. So, why, when I mention, all of a sudden I’m a racist. I’m not a racist. I don’t have a racist bone in my body.”
–Trump, interview on Fox News’ “Media Buzz,” July 5, 2015

“What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.”
–Trump, statement about his June 16 comments, July 6, 2015

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-connecting-mexican-immigrants-and-crime/

I don't interpret those comments as a denigration of all Latinos. No. I think he is mostly making reference to the criminal element of illegal migration (not an entire race of people).

And then there's the wall and treating Mexicans like the damn White Walkers on Game of Thrones, here presented in musical form:

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- Net immigration from Mexico right now is next to zero, so no wall is even necessary.
- It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to build as he's simultaneously proposing tax cuts for the wealthy (oh, yeah, Mexico will pay for it and totally not the middle class, right) and tens of billions of dollars each year after that to man and maintain it.
- It would easily be bypassed because we have these amazing things called boats and two bodies of water called the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean on either side, plus, you know, planes and tunnels and tourist traffic. Or you could just take a flight to Canada and walk over that 3,000 mile open border. Guess we need another wall there too.
- Most undocumented immigrants don't come here by crossing the border illegally. They come here on a work, school, or visitor visa and then stay in the country after it lapses. So unless you're going to stop all work visas and ruin the economy that way too, you're not stopping a damn thing.
- He wants the wall to have his name on it, he even says as much in the video. The man is a modern day pharaoh building monuments to himself, with all the ego that requires.

These points do not support the position that Trump is racist towards Latinos.

Then there are the racist comments insinuating that Judge Curiel couldn't be impartial in the Trump U case because he was Mexican, even though he was born in Chicago and is every bit as much of an American as Trump is. And this was after the judge had delayed the case until after the primaries so that it would not interfere with Trump's chances of winning, which sounds pretty fair and impartial to me.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-judge-gonzalo-curiel-223849

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-judge-gonzalo-curiel-223849

I concede that this was a racist statement by Trump unless Trump had reason other than simply Curiel's race/nationality to assume bias.

There's a lot more than that, and that's not even including the things he and his campaign minions have said or done about Muslims, Jews, the disabled, women, blacks, and others, or the widespread support he has from white supremacist groups, which he only hesitantly disavows after media pressure is applied.

I don't think he needed any media pressure to disavow white supremacist groups.

 

[Yanks]

Other than having an (R) next to his name this time (and that's by no means something he's had long term or something he feels beholden too) can you tell me in detail what it is about Trump that appeals to you as a candidate without insulting Hillary Clinton in the process?

He's not a career politician.

Sorry, I can't see the video at work, but I'm well aware he's not a text (or any book) Republican.

 

[Yanks]

- Net immigration from Mexico right now is next to zero, so no wall is even necessary.

"Net"? please explain.

- It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to build as he's simultaneously proposing tax cuts for the wealthy (oh, yeah, Mexico will pay for it and totally not the middle class, right) and tens of billions of dollars each year after that to man and maintain it.

It's nothing really. How much $$$ does the current administration print each month?

- It would easily be bypassed because we have these amazing things called boats and two bodies of water called the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific Ocean on either side, plus, you know, planes and tunnels and tourist traffic. Or you could just take a flight to Canada and walk over that 3,000 mile open border. Guess we need another wall there too.

No, just need to monitor. We do have this thing called the Coast Guard.

- Most undocumented immigrants don't come here by crossing the border illegally. They come here on a work, school, or visitor visa and then stay in the country after it lapses. So unless you're going to stop all work visas and ruin the economy that way too, you're not stopping a damn thing.

Part of his plan is to crack down on that, unlike the current administration.

- He wants the wall to have his name on it, he even says as much in the video. The man is a modern day pharaoh building monuments to himself, with all the ego that requires.

Probably

Judge Curiel

You need to research this fella and his affiliations a little more.

 

[suarezguy]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. But don't come crying to me when we find ourselves in more corporation enriching wars and not less.

What does it say, and how do you think voters should react, when major neoconservatives endorse Hillary Clinton?

The Fourteenth Amendment

Disagreeing with the typical interpretation of that amendment, indeed its apparent meaning, and suggesting a law be passed to force the Supreme Court to determine what its actual meaning is, is not trashing the amendment.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Disagreeing with the typical interpretation of that amendment, indeed its apparent meaning, and suggesting a law be passed to force the Supreme Court to determine what its actual meaning is, is not trashing the amendment.

You're just supporting @Locutus of Bored's point.

@Locutus of Bored's point was that Trump does not regard the part of the Constitution embodied by the Fourteenth Amendment as being timeless, and you've just help him make that point (as if he needed more help). In the context of his post, it would be reasonable to say that that's what he meant by trashing the Amendment. Congrats!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

"Net"? please explain.

It means more Mexican immigrants are leaving the US each year then are coming in.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

You need to research this fella and his affiliations a little more.

No, I'm well aware of them, but apparently you need to do more research (you can start by actually reading the article I already posted, where they explain this), because you're conflating two different organizations that happen to share a similar name with each other. There's the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), which is an activist group headquartered in Washington DC which Judge Curiel has no affiliation with, and then there's the La Raza Lawyers Association (LRLA Larla, lar lar lar lar Larla), which is an apolitical organization of Latino attorneys and judges headquartered in California which Judge Curiel is a member of. I can see why that would be confusing with the scary Spanish words and all, but you'd think they would have Googled it before using it in a racist attack on a sitting judge to make sure that it was in fact the same organization.

 

[JeffinOakland]

What does it say, and how do you think voters should react, when major neoconservatives endorse Hillary Clinton?.

It says Clinton isn't really a liberal but anyone with half a brain already knew that. War is big business and its good for business. That's why just about every 20th Century President kept the military busy one way or the other. I'm voting for Clinton because I don't want Trump being President. That, by no means, is any sort of endorsement for Clinton.

 

[J.T.B.]

I don't presume to know those types of details regarding his relationship with his kids. I just know that they presented really well at the convention. It reflected well on him.

Extremely wealthy people who went to expensive private schools tend to "present well." What that has to do with their father's qualifications to be president, I haven't the vaguest idea.

One thing that Trump might have going for him is that he has a reputation for placing highly qualified candidates in positions around him, so he will probably lean heavily on the staff around him.

The convention indicates otherwise. Trump's inept campaign staff made a four-day plagiarism story out of a 15-minute speech, and let Ted Cruz give a speech that completely undermined their front of party unity. If he's going to put "highly qualified" people in important positions, what's he waiting for?

I concede that this was a racist statement by Trump unless Trump had reason other than simply Curiel's race/nationality to assume bias.

If he had another reason, why didn't he say it? Instead of this on CNN, June 5:

Jake Tapper (about Judge Curiel): But I don't care if you criticize him. That's fine. You can criticize every decision. What I'm saying is, if you invoke his race as a reason why he can't do his job...

Trump: I think that's why he's doing it.​

I don't think he needed any media pressure to disavow white supremacist groups

Then why did it take days? Why did he say he didn't know anything about David Duke on Feb. 28, and then say he had disavowed him numerous times in the past on March 3?

More broadly, he's changed his story so many times, why do people think they know what they will be getting with this candidate?

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I think the whole plagiarism deal is a non-issue at this point for most people who would consider voting for him.

Others have already said what I would've in response to the rest of your post, so I'll just comment on this one point... Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you that it's a non-issue to his supporters. "Sadly", because of what it says about their ethical standards in general: if they don't think plagiarizing a speech is a problem, they presumably don't think it's a problem for their kids to plagiarize (or cheat in other ways) in school. Or for themselves to plagiarize on the job.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Others have already said what I would've in response to the rest of your post, so I'll just comment on this one point... Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you that it's a non-issue to his tsupporters. "Sadly", because of what it says about their ethical standards in general: if they don't think plagiarizing a speech is a problem, they presumably don't think it's a problem for their kids to plagiarize (or cheat in other ways) in school. Or for themselves to plagiarize on the job.

I think its part of a "everyone cheats, if you don't cheat, then you're a sucker and a fool" mentality that defines the morality of bullies and adult children like Trump (bully) and his followers (adult children). There's something extremely cynical about Trump and his nationalism.

 

[fonzob1]

Extremely wealthy people who went to expensive private schools tend to "present well." What that has to do with their father's qualifications to be president, I haven't the vaguest idea.

I have no reason to believe they were disingenuous just because they are wealthy. I am guessing that it is easy for the children of a billionaire to grow up far less disciplined than Trump's children appear to have done. The character of the children does reflect on the father. It was something unexpected for voters who are still on the fence.

The convention indicates otherwise. Trump's inept campaign staff made a four-day plagiarism story out of a 15-minute speech, and let Ted Cruz give a speech that completely undermined their front of party unity. If he's going to put "highly qualified" people in important positions, what's he waiting for?

He is out in front of his opponent in that regard though. The RNC chair wasn't the first in memory to be forced to step down.

More broadly, he's changed his story so many times, why do people think they know what they will be getting with this candidate?

I think it is more that people already know what they will be getting with his opponent.

Others have already said what I would've in response to the rest of your post, so I'll just comment on this one point... Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with you that it's a non-issue to his supporters. "Sadly", because of what it says about their ethical standards in general: if they don't think plagiarizing a speech is a problem, they presumably don't think it's a problem for their kids to plagiarize (or cheat in other ways) in school. Or for themselves to plagiarize on the job.

I think it may be that people leaning towards Trump see Hillary's behavior, as it relates to keeping classified data on a private server or Benghazi, to be more significant than the wife of a candidate lifting a few lines from Michelle Obama. Hillary would like us to forget about her ethics issues during her time as Secretary of State, while Trump seems utterly unconcerned about plagiarism issues maybe because he knows his voters see the former as being far worse.

Politics will always be a world of lesser evils.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

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[Locutus of Bored]

I think it may be that people leaning towards Trump see Hillary's behavior, as it relates to keeping classified data on a private server or Benghazi, to be more significant than the wife of a candidate lifting a few lines from Michelle Obama.

I'm sure you were equally outraged during the Bush Administration email scandal where they deleted millions of emails from their private servers, right?
http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/web-video/missing-white-house-emails
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

And when there were twenty US embassy, consulate, and diplomatic attacks with 87 deaths (66 of embassy personnel) during the Bush administration, you mourned all those lost equally and demanded that the Bush administration be held responsible, right?
http://www.politifact.com/embassyattacks/