Ghostbusters 2016: Talk about the movie(s).

[JD]

Maybe saying everyone who dislikes the trailer is sexist or a misogynist is a gross generalization. But there is a part of fandom that has a very real problem with women invading their turf. Look at the outcry (granted it was a minority, but a loud minority) who called for boycotts of the last Star Wars movie because they dared to have a female lead.

They may not be as many in number as the people who just think this doesn't look very good, but people who dislike this based on the fact that it's a movie with female leads are out there. They do exist.

Oh, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who just thought it was a bad trailer, but the negative reaction still seems completely disproportionate the the quality of the trailer. Like I said before, I usually don't like Paul Feig and Melissa McCarthy, but I actually didn't hate the trailer. I think that actually says a lot about the actual quality of the trailer, if someone who normally doesn't like their stuff can actual be won over, then I think maybe it's actually not that bad.

 

[Amaris]

Oh, I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who just thought it was a bad trailer, but the negative reaction still seems completely disproportionate the the quality of the trailer. Like I said before, I usually don't like Paul Feig and Melissa McCarthy, but I actually didn't hate the trailer. I think that actually says a lot about the actual quality of the trailer, if someone who normally doesn't like their stuff can actual be won over, then I think maybe it's actually not that bad.

The negative reaction is very disproportionate compared to the trailer. The most downvoted trailer of all time for what seems to be a movie remake? Nothing about that sounds out of the ordinary?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

My point exactly. The backlash against the new GHOSTBUSTERS is not taking place in a vacuum.

I was pointing out Trump just to note that certain behaviors or beliefs were not outmoded...but his campaign success does not automatically mean...

but in these days of Trump, GamerGate,etc . . .yeah, it's hard not to see the whole GHOSTBUSTERS flap as part of a larger culture war or counter-revolution or whatever.

Considering how often reboots/reimagined movies generate negative reactions, it is more than likely the GB reaction is born from the same emotional / creative frustration with misguided / milking / spin job with a popular name or concept slapped on it. There was no culture war, etc., associated with the negative reactions to the films I listed yesterday, or for more examples, Burton's Apes reimagining, Zombie's Halloween, etc.

Some (not referring to you) are so locked in a self-imposed culture war of knee-jerk reactions that any criticism of a film starring a woman is instantly, and unjustifiably mislabeled misogyny, as if the human mind cannot possibly see problems with a film starring women for no other reason. They live in a never-ending cycle of seeking offense--often where none exists. In the case of GB, they cannot see that reboots are among the most naturally disliked kind of films.

 

[ichab]

I was pointing out Trump just to note that certain behaviors or beliefs were not outmoded...but his campaign success does not automatically mean...



Considering how often reboots/reimagined movies generate negative reactions, it is more than likely the GB reaction is born from the same emotional / creative frustration with misguided / milking / spin job with a popular name or concept slapped on it. There was no culture war, etc., associated with the negative reactions to the films I listed yesterday, or for more examples, Burton's Apes reimagining, Zombie's Halloween, etc.

Some (not referring to you) are so locked in a self-imposed culture war of knee-jerk reactions that any criticism of a film starring a woman is instantly, and unjustifiably mislabeled misogyny, as if the human mind cannot possibly see problems with a film starring women for no other reason. They live in a never-ending cycle of seeking offense--often where none exists. In the case of GB, they cannot see that reboots are among the most naturally disliked kind of films.

This.
One of my favorite Tarantino movies is Kill Bill and it has a woman lead kicking the sh@t out of hundreds of men. Which by the way was HUGELY successful at the box office and that was more than ten years ago. Doesnt look like anyone minded a strong female lead.

Now if hollywood ever tried to redo that with a male lead I would be just as turned off as I am with this Ghostbusters reboot. Like the recent fantastic four reboot it's trying to cash in on the brand name while ignoring what made the brand popular in the first place by trying to appeal to the SJW crowd. This movie will fail just as badly as F4 did and it deserves to.

 

[Csalem]

New trailer:

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[B.J.]

Cool, spoils far too much though.

 

[Amaris]

New trailer:

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I am loving Patty.

 

[Csalem]

I am loving Patty.

I am loving Holtzmann, Think she may be the best character in it. I think this looks better and better as more stuff comes out. I know some of it seems slapstick but then some of Bill Murray's stuff looked slapstick if watched out of context in the original.

And I am still loving the remixed theme tune.

 

[Amaris]

I am loving Holtzmann, Think she may be the best character in it. I think this looks better and better as more stuff comes out. I know some of it seems slapstick but then some of Bill Murray's stuff looked slapstick if watched out of context in the original.

And I am still loving the remixed theme tune.

Agreed, Holtzmann is terrific, too. I love all of them, really. It's just Patty did something in one of the scenes that had me giggling.

 

[Saul]

Really good trailer. I'm glad they dropped the nostalgic angle and just went with what they are doing. Excited for this now.

 

[Csalem]

Trailer ends with "Ghostbusters" and below it "Answer The Call".
Den of Geek suggesting this is a new title for the film:
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/gho...ers-melissa-mccarthy-on-the-confusing-trailer

To me it seems like a tag line but I dunno. No mention of it on official Twitter feed.

 

[Christopher]

Trailer ends with "Ghostbusters" and below it "Answer The Call".
Den of Geek suggesting this is a new title for the film:
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/gho...ers-melissa-mccarthy-on-the-confusing-trailer

To me it seems like a tag line but I dunno. No mention of it on official Twitter feed.

Yeah, it seems like a slogan/tagline to me. The original had "Who you gonna call?" and now this has "Answer the call."

 

[ancient]

I was pointing out Trump just to note that certain behaviors or beliefs were not outmoded...but his campaign success does not automatically mean...



Considering how often reboots/reimagined movies generate negative reactions, it is more than likely the GB reaction is born from the same emotional / creative frustration with misguided / milking / spin job with a popular name or concept slapped on it. There was no culture war, etc., associated with the negative reactions to the films I listed yesterday, or for more examples, Burton's Apes reimagining, Zombie's Halloween, etc.

Some (not referring to you) are so locked in a self-imposed culture war of knee-jerk reactions that any criticism of a film starring a woman is instantly, and unjustifiably mislabeled misogyny, as if the human mind cannot possibly see problems with a film starring women for no other reason. They live in a never-ending cycle of seeking offense--often where none exists. In the case of GB, they cannot see that reboots are among the most naturally disliked kind of films.

The hacks behind this reboot are jumping on board the false culture war to promote their movie. It's an old strategy that has found a new route to take. This has been going on forever, the fact that youtube got the most dislikes - that record is broken constantly, youtube only got super popular to begin with like 5 years ago.

 

[Amaris]

The hacks behind this reboot are jumping on board the false culture war to promote their movie. It's an old strategy that has found a new route to take. This has been going on forever, the fact that youtube got the most dislikes - that record is broken constantly, youtube only got super popular to begin with like 5 years ago.

Oh, you just did not say "false culture war" regarding the current culture of discrimination against women, did you? There's no way that's what you meant, right?

 

[ancient]

Oh, you just did not say "false culture war" regarding the current culture of discrimination against women, did you? There's no way that's what you meant, right?

If you disagree with my analysis of this situation, I'd love to hear your reasoning rather than your incredulity.

 

[Amaris]

If you disagree with my analysis of this situation, I'd love to hear your reasoning rather than your incredulity.

Well, we'll start with bias against women in media:
http://www.americanbar.org/content/...gazine/2011winter_media_bias.authcheckdam.pdf
https://www.nyu.edu/classes/jackson...ality/Readings/Wood - Gendered Media - 94.pdf
http://www.alternet.org/story/79646/cutting_women_out:_the_media_bias_against_female_candidates
https://dub.washington.edu/djangosite/media/papers/unequalrepresentation.pdf
http://www.ijirset.com/upload/august/28_Gender Bias in Media and Ad Agencies.pdf

Then, for fun, let's discuss bias against women in the STEM fields:
http://www.uchastings.edu/news/articles/2015/01/double-jeopardy-report.pdf
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-creativity-bias-against-women/
http://www.pnas.org/content/112/43/13201.full.pdf
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015...ion-according-international-study-gender-bias
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~srugheimer/Women_in_STEM_Resources.html
https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200001/back-page.cfm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140623121000.htm
https://www.britishcouncil.org/voices-magazine/what-institutions-can-do-support-women-science
http://ctl.yale.edu/sites/default/f..._subtle_gender_biases_favor_male_students.pdf
https://www.aacei.org/wpc/library/reprints/2006-10.shtml
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/transcience/Vol6_No1_2015_1_19.pdf

I could go on, and on and on and on and on, but we're talking about a film here, so I'll keep it relevant to bias against women in media and in the sciences. So we have a film where four female scientists get together and start a business in capturing and detaining the paranormal: spirits, apparitions, ghosts, goblins, specters, and so on.

Sounds interesting, right? Oh, I'm sure there will be a mixed reaction to this. I mean, the movie is touching on some sacred ground, as the original all male cast Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II are pretty well loved by many. How bad of a reception could the movie get by telling everyone the four leads will be women?

http://fortune.com/2016/05/02/female-ghostbusters-trailer/

Stephanie Merry of the Washington Post does one better and outlines what we're seeing, but with some spiffy graphs:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...re-hating-the-ghostbusters-trailer-guess-why/

That is just for this movie. If we get out into the actual politics of what is going on, there is a vast world of information out there I could show you. Whether you accept it or not, it's there if you're willing to look, and like the effects of global climate change, it's going to make itself known to the most oblivious and those who are still deep in denial quite soon.

 

[JD]

OK, I actually liked that trailer. I love Patty trying to leave with the big dragon ghost on her shoulder. I'm really liking the ghost designs they are using for this one. I think I remeber seeing some people complaining about the ghost puking on, I think it was either McKinnon or Wiig, but I don't really see where that's any different then Bill Murray rolling around covered in slime during the first encounter with Slimer in the original.

Considering how often reboots/reimagined movies generate negative reactions, it is more than likely the GB reaction is born from the same emotional / creative frustration with misguided / milking / spin job with a popular name or concept slapped on it. There was no culture war, etc., associated with the negative reactions to the films I listed yesterday, or for more examples, Burton's Apes reimagining, Zombie's Halloween, etc.

Sure, but none of those movies got the insane amount of hate this is getting. There have been popular movies with female leads, but there is still plenty of evidence of the insane amounts of sexism still out there. To try to say that there isn't sexism or misogyny out there and that it doesn't impact the reaction to movies like this is just insane.

 

[Cyke101]

~snip~

Just to add Annenberg's study, which got a lot of press earlier this year: http://annenberg.usc.edu/pages/~/media/MDSCI/CARDReport FINAL 22216.ashx

But even without reading it or the other sources, if someone simply took note of how gender is cast, used, and deployed in their regular viewing habits -- whatever they may be -- and then took it as a whole, the discrepancies would be clear.

I'm a pretty big comic book movie fan, but I tend to like the sci fi genre as a whole. But even then, in ones I watch, the ratio is probably 80% men in major roles. In Marvel movies, which I love for the most part, male actors over 40 can become superheroes (Iron Man, Hulk, Ant-Man, War Machine, Hawkeye, Drax), but women over 40 are usually relegated to supporting player status, nevermind actually headlining a movie. If men can play heroes that start their careers after 40, women should be allowed that chance as well. But even if we stick to the argument that the source material doesn't have many women heroes over 40, then the source should change as well -- after all, comics continue to evolve.

 

[ancient]

Well, we'll start with bias against women in media:

Ok, maybe I'll go through that giant wall of text you just posted at me later, but I think we need to focus on the issue at hand, so I'll refocus my point:

Crappy little remake movies aren't relevant to culture, entertainment of this sort is reactionary - it's safe fluff based on safe formulas, not cutting edge & industry changing.

 

[JD]

I don't know if I'd call this a crappy little remake movie. It's pretty clearly a big movie for the studio, with a big name director, a popular cast, and tons of special effects. It's a big summer blockbuster, maybe not on the level of Batman v Superman, or Civil War, but I think it's still pretty clearly a big deal. Hell, if it was just a crappy little remake movie, then it probably wouldn't have been able to get enough attention to be the most unliked movie trailer in YouTube history.
As for it not being cutting edge or industry changing, I really could care less about that stuff, all I want is an enjoyable movie, and I'm starting to think there's a pretty good chance this actually could be.