CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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This is utterly ridiculous. The articles by Hinman et al began intensifying during the Star Trek Continues fund raiser on IndieGoGo. Perhaps you give this a "pass" but I can not. There was speculation from a few podcasters, including your program that CBS was expanding their case to include other fan films. This speculation had a detrimental impact on other fan films, impugning their reputation in the process. This is my primary objection to the inappropriate speculation in this thread.
Second, as a Viacom shareholder, the claim that CBS is enforcing IP on all fan productions should be, in my eyes, obviously and patently ridiculous. After all, these mistaken speculators could stretch the legalities and include your own podcast, this board, and other non-licensed sites. This would obviously be overly broad, right?
Of course it does. When a car accident happens, the car which hit the victim causes the collision. The sequence of events and the timing of these events are clearly relevant to the analysis.
1. The CBS v. Axanar case is a boring IP case. There's really nothing to this case. Your speculation only feeds activity to the anti-CBS crowd who are intentionally framing CBS and Viacom as the "big bad corporation". I urge you to help people understand that there is really nothing to this case. The IP got used and the owner doesn't like it. End of story.
2. The issue isn't just looking for "super" positive coverage. It's the biased and negative speculation against the interests of CBS on this thread and on different boards that I oppose. As a Viacom shareholder, these speculative statements about a broad stoppage of fan activities are just plain misinformed. The continuing attempt by some to continue to drag innocent parties into the mix is also unforgivable.
3. Being called a "homophobe" and having no explanation from the moderator and only accusation from the moderator in emails to me is plain enough. This is NOT about a sorting algorithm. It's about individuals engaging in speculation, hurting other fan films, and hurting innocent people in the process of their mistaken behavior.
Thanks for your response and reading...sorry it took me a while to respond... I have a life outside of this board.
I wish you would stand silent. Your contributions have not been helpful.
GSchnitzer is a reasonable moderator. Your expectations are not.
Utterly missing the point. You began the post in question "Here's your problem, Karzak:" (emphasis mine) which is about the postER. What follows might be perfectly logical but "post not poster" is the way around here, hence my comment.
You keep using this as though we have an obligation to take your statements as being more important. I'm sorry. That does nothing for me. You are entitled to your opinion and you are entitled to voice it. We are entitled to the same.
I think you overestimate the effect this board, this thread and we in general have on CBS as a whole.
I would stand to believe that the administrators of this board, whom I would imagine have a decent relationship with CBS, would not appreciate such threats.
So, there are 25,000 members of this board. I'd say maybe a few hundred of them are regular posters. The number of people who regularly read the Trek Fan Film forum is even less and those who actually speak with regularity about Axanar is even fewer. I can't speak for @jespah or The G & T Show, but I'm certain if she were interested and had the time, she could give you the numbers of people who listen to their show.
Regardless, I think you greatly overestimate the effect that Axanar, TrekBBS, The G & T Show, 1701News, other podcast or news sources, other fan films, the Facebook fan community and other online mediums have on the bottom line of CBS' interests.
Frankly, as you continue to put the idea that we are hurting CBS out there, I believe the burden of proof is on you to provide an analysis of the events at hand and how they've affected CBS as a whole. You've made the statements. But you've given us no data to back these claims up.
If CBS and Paramount decide to axe fan films completely, that is their choice. Our little group discussing it here has no bearing AT ALL on that decision. If Star Trek Continues hadn't managed to meet its goal (thanks to hefty private donations, yes, but more power to them), it would not have been the fault of this discussion thread.
There is something called freedom of speech. You can object to this thread til you're blue in the face. But your attempts to frighten us into stopping will not work.
But, we continue to veer off topic...
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Why, yes there is. There is the freedom to say whatever you want and expect that the GOVERNMENT will not censor you for it. And even at that, there are limits to what you can say.
But there is no such freedom to say whatever you want on a privately own/run albeit public-access forum.
If you write a letter to the editor of a newspaper and they refuse to publish it, you cannot sue in court to make them claiming it as your First Amendment right. (Well, you can try it, but you won't win. It's been done and failed at least once that I heard of.)
If the moderators of this Trek-BBS decide to remove a posting or even block a person from posting, that does NOT in any way, shape, or form infringe upon said poster's Constitutional Right to freedom of speech. And if someone should continue to the same thing over and over and over and over after having been warned repeatedly, they should NOT be shocked if they suffer repercussions.
Just for lulz, today I tag searched Axanar and 'Alec Peters' on tumblr. There was a grand total of TWO posts about the fracas, one pro-Axanar and one critic responding.
When a fandom controversy can't even get anyone riled up on tumblr, you haven't got much of a fandom or controversy.
No, please don't fetch the CBS NCSISUV squad on us. They've certainly got nothing better to do than to review the moderating at TrekBBS.
Probably not because those shows weren't making a profit off of Klingon or anything related to Trek. You can mention things in passing on such shows. Axanar is different. Klingon is a integral part of the story which uses the dialogue to advance the story. Shows like The Big Bang Theory often reference Klingon for jokes.
Psst I'm female.
PS We will be streaming in around an hour or so - you're all welcome to join us in the chat room:
http://www.gandtshow.com/streaming/
If CBS has a problem with our discussion of this matter, they are more than welcome to tell us. As do all fan endeavors. But they also know we come under the First Amendment when it comes to reporting. Good, bad, ugly, or indifferent, we cover it as well as we can. Corporate interests and fan artistic interests do not inform our coverage. Newsworthiness, timeliness, and relations to the fandom (and related fandoms, as we know a lot of our listeners also enjoy Star Wars, the Avengers, etc.) do.
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Wow. Everyday I think there couldn't possibly be something dumber posted than the day before regarding Axanar and the lawsuit. Everyday I am proven wrong.
Look, about homophobia, maybe there's a linguistic communication problem going on. I'm just going to explain it as plainly as possible just in case.
When people say homophobia, they're not talking about a clinical phobia.
If someone sees in this picture a harmless a harmless romantic scene...
and in this picture they see an inappropriately sexual scene...
...it's indicative of a bias about the legitimacy of homosexual relationships.
That bias IS what we ALL call homophobia. That's how the word is used now.
I hope this was helpful.
If someone sees in this picture a harmless a harmless romantic scene...
and in this picture they see an inappropriately sexual scene...
...it's indicative of a bias about the legitimacy of homosexual relationships.
That bias IS what we ALL call homophobia. That's how the word is used now.
I hope this was helpful.
What if I rolled my eyes at both of them?
Or think both of them are incredibly stupid and do little to serve the plot that couldn't be handled differently?
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The scene from '09: Just felt frat-movieis and was there just to drive home the fact that Kirk was a immature horndog and oh...hey we get to see Uhura take off her clothes. The same info about the Klingon transmission could have been handled diffrently
The scene from Blood and Fire (NV): "OMG Kirk's nephew is gay LOL!" It isn't that Kirk's nephew is gay, it's the way it was handle; felt more like the character was chosen spefically for the shock value of it being Kirk's nephew over having it work more naturally with the story. It was one of those things that hits the brakes on the story when it's brought up during the narrative. It's not the gay angle, it's the poor handling of it that makes it poor.
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Those would be parody. Also, if there were other incidental uses of Klingon — like someone in a TV show saying it to someone else — you would actually fall under fair use in most cases, or enough to where CBS wouldn't sue.
Also, I am not sure which "NBS" show is being talked about, but if it's produced by CBS (which is possible, they have a very active studio) they wouldn't need permission, because they already own it, and "NBS" is licensing it.
Let's see evidence of this intensification, that also shows that news itself was not happening to warrant any apparent "intensification."
Like, if we were covering every filing, but skipped some before the STC fundraiser, or simply waited and reported on them later, then I will accept that.
But if there were few filings before the STC fundraiser, and by coincidence, there were more filings once crowdfunding started, how could that be intensification directly related to the STC fundraising?
Our biggest story on all of this took place on Feb. 1 — before the STC fundraiser. If I wanted to intensify at deliberate points in time, should I have not held that story until later? I mean, I could have. But I didn't. We ran it within a couple days after the interview was conducted.
Whose program? And people are allowed to speculate on that. I speculated on that from the very beginning, in my first column a few days after the lawsuit was filed. And it absolutely could impact other fan-films, there is no doubt. CBS and Paramount have turned a blind eye to fan productions in the past, and now suddenly, they are paying very close attention, to the point that they are filing a lawsuit. That definitely indicates some kind of shift in CBS and Paramount's approach.
Did Viacom authorize you to speak on their behalf? Because here's the thing — when you say "as a Viacom shareholder," you create the impression that you speak with authority. But unless you are the majority holder (and if so, welcome to the boards, Sumner Redstone!) or you are authorized to speak on Viacom's behalf, I would be careful about appearing to speak on their behalf.
I'm sure Viacom would not like that, because only they can speak for themselves officially, or only they can choose surrogates.
So you own some stock in Viacom? So what? That doesn't make me weigh your silly opinions any more than I already don't. I mean do.
It is overly broad, because it's inaccurate. Sites like mine, and sites like TrekBBS, exist because of something called Fair Use. We are not writing scripts and creating television shows and movies on the Internet. TrekBBS exists under Fair Use because it's commentary and discussion, which is EXPLICITLY covered under Fair Use.
1701News and TrekToday are protected, because news reporting is EXPLICITLY covered under Fair Use.
In case you don't know what "explicit" means, it means that it clearly spells that out. So no, even in the worst-case scenario that CBS and Paramount shuts down every single fan-film, I am not worried at 1701News, and I'm sure the people at TrekToday and TrekBBS are not worried either. Because that does NOT change the Fair Use law.
Then why do you keep writing a thesis every time about it? Seriously, you may be challenging me in the number of words I've written about the case. And I've written a lot.
I don't recall anyone calling you a homophobe. But your statements can certainly be labeled homophobic.
That is true. Even if you take 1701News' numbers, which aren't bad, it's still only a fraction of the total Star Trek fandom. Believe it or not, you will find more often than not, Star Trek fans who haven't heard of 1701News, who haven't heard of TrekBBS, who haven't heard of TrekToday, who didn't even know fan-films existed. This is a niche audience within a niche audience.
I don't think the moderators would care (not to speak for them). They are protected under Fair Use, and there is nothing CBS or Paramount can say or do to change anything they do here.
That's called proper utilization of Fair Use.
Oh, his analysis is hilarious. Primarily, showing that Disney's stock went up after the acquisition of Star Wars, primarily because of how Lucasfilm treats fan-films (and nothing to do with the billions of dollars the new Star Wars movies could make).
Quoting this, because it bears repeating.
@GeneLiffs :
My apologies; you are absolutely right that there are far more distinctions and nuance to this matter than my previous posts would allow. It's been all too easy to "skim" the really longer posts in this thread of late, and I'm certainly guilty of it myself. I likewise should not be painting with such a broad brush on the matter.
I do however still believe that it is nonsensical that anyone but CBS/Paramount would own the Klingon language; the same way whoever owns Game of Thrones would own Dothraki. Just my two cents, humble though they may be.
On a separate issue: Alec Peters deserves everything he's getting right now. The insults, the suspicion, and the disdain. I don't know how long you've been a member here but what he's getting now from those of us who have seen him for the fraud he is all along is hardly anything compared to the vitriol and nastiness he doled out to anyone who dared disagree with him during his time here.
It was not my intention to direct any of my own disdain for him toward you however and if my previous posts came across that way, I offer my sincere apology. I will likewise afford myself extra care in choosing my words when I post next to avoid this same confusion again.
My apologies; you are absolutely right that there are far more distinctions and nuance to this matter than my previous posts would allow. It's been all too easy to "skim" the really longer posts in this thread of late, and I'm certainly guilty of it myself. I likewise should not be painting with such a broad brush on the matter.
I do however still believe that it is nonsensical that anyone but CBS/Paramount would own the Klingon language; the same way whoever owns Game of Thrones would own Dothraki. Just my two cents, humble though they may be.
On a separate issue: Alec Peters deserves everything he's getting right now. The insults, the suspicion, and the disdain. I don't know how long you've been a member here but what he's getting now from those of us who have seen him for the fraud he is all along is hardly anything compared to the vitriol and nastiness he doled out to anyone who dared disagree with him during his time here.
It was not my intention to direct any of my own disdain for him toward you however and if my previous posts came across that way, I offer my sincere apology. I will likewise afford myself extra care in choosing my words when I post next to avoid this same confusion again.
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