Teams whining for a new stadium

[The Borgified Corpse]

Do any of the rest of you live in cities where the team is currently whining about wanting a new publicly funded stadium?

Here in the metro-Phoenix, AZ area, it's about as bad as it's ever been. The Arizona Coyotes, Arizona Diamondbacks, & Phoenix Suns are all whining about wanting new buildings, and Arizona State University has been grumbling about wanting a new basketball arena too. The ASU football stadium is already undergoing massive renovations. Just about the only team not whining about its building right now is the Arizona Cardinals, and that's because University of Phoenix Stadium is less than a decade old and is widely considered to be one of the best in the NFL. (It's also the only major indoor football stadium west of the Rockies.)

I'm really appalled at the behavior of each of these teams. They basically blackmail the city into building them new stadiums and then whine for another one as soon as the lease is up. Or before that in some cases. Right now, the Diamondbacks are threatening to sue Maricopa County if they don't allow the team to start looking for a new venue now, even though their Chase Field lease clearly says that they're not allowed to talk to any other venues until 2024.

The behavior of the Coyotes is even more galling since Gila River Arena is less than 13 years old and because the city of Glendale has essentially torpedoed its fiscal solvency just by building the thing in the first place!

As for the Suns, they've been kinda quiet lately. I'm guessing that, since they've been so bad these last few seasons, they don't want to push their luck. But every once in a while, the owner will still talk about moving to a new arena in a few more years as if it's a done deal. They keep talking about how Talking Stick Resort Arena is one of the oldest in the NBA, but it's still only 24 years old, less than half the age of Madison Square Garden. And they haven't really made a case for what aspects of Talking Stick Resort Arena are outdated. They just talk about it as if they're entitled to a new building!

How are things in your cities? Is everyone else whining for a new stadium too?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The last time this happened in my city (Omaha) is when the College World Series threatened to pull out if we didn't build a new stadium. So they basically had us by the balls, since Omaha can't afford to lose the CWS.

(And, looking back, I understand the reasoning behind it...Rosenblatt Stadium was too big for our AAA team, and WAY too small for the CWS.)

That said, I'm pretty gung-ho in favor of new stadiums when they are needed. Oakland? Tampa Bay? Hell yes, why not get them built? But the Diamondbacks...no way. Chase Field is WAY too new to be replaced. No matter WHO the hell pays for it.

And don't even get me started on Atlanta.

 

[Corran Horn]

I imagine the White Sox will extort their way to a new stadium within my lifetime.

As if their current sweetheart deal isn't bad enough. /vomits

 

[Scout101]

Cities need to band together and refuse to chip in. Billionaires trying to extort towns to give them a free 500M towards their projects, which they just use to get richer. Problem is, people keep jumping in and offering the money, even after it being a proven loser. Kinda a point of pride that the Patriots paid for their own stadium without demanding money. Not sure how many have been built that way since, but can't be a big number...

Tampa doesn't need a new stadium. The Trop is a POS, but it's not why people don't go. Build the new stadium somewhere else, where they may get a following. People just don't go to the games, even when they were good and in the playoffs. Maybe give them to Montreal if they want to go down that path again.

Oakland needs a new one, for both MLB and NFL, and preferably not the same building. But that one's being worked, and at least there's talk of it moving forward in the next year or so (Raiders piece, assume it leads MLB to action as well).

 

[Jedi_Master]

Oakland is one of the few situations that a new public/private partnership is warranted. O.co Coliseum is a dump built on a trash heap covered by a vomitorium. Easily the worst stadium in both the NFL and MLB.

Virtually every other "new stadium" request is just another example of corporate welfare.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

O.co Coliseum is a dump built on a trash heap covered by a vomitorium.

You're going too easy on it...

(side note: You know what they do with the extra football seats when the stadium is in baseball mode? They just take them out into the parking lot and throw them in a big HEAP. I know, our tour bus parked right next to it. )

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I imagine the White Sox will extort their way to a new stadium within my lifetime.

As if their current sweetheart deal isn't bad enough. /vomits

Ironic considering Chicago's other baseball team, the Cubs, still play in Wrigley Field and it's been around since 1914!

Problem is, people keep jumping in and offering the money, even after it being a proven loser. Kinda a point of pride that the Patriots paid for their own stadium without demanding money. Not sure how many have been built that way since, but can't be a big number...

According to Wikipedia, AT&T Park in San Francisco was built without public money. So was the Staples Center in Los Angeles. And Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles, but that was back in 1962. Lambeau Field in Green Bay was built with public money but that's kind of a gray area since the team itself is publicly owned.

Actually, I found an article that indicates that, although the New England Patriots' venue at Gillette Stadium was built largely with private funds, it wasn't entirely private funds. It says it was 83% private money, 17% public money. The only recent NFL venue to be 100% privately funded is MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, NJ where the New York Giants & New York Jets play.

https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/nfl-funding-summary-12-2-11.pdf

Tampa doesn't need a new stadium. The Trop is a POS, but it's not why people don't go. Build the new stadium somewhere else, where they may get a following. People just don't go to the games, even when they were good and in the playoffs. Maybe give them to Montreal if they want to go down that path again.

I'm somewhat hopeful that Maricopa County won't be duped into paying for another public stadium for the Diamondbacks for a few reasons:
1.) Corporate welfare is even less popular now than it was back then.
2.) Even back in the 1990s, approving the construction of Chase Field proved very unpopular with voters. One member of the county Board of Supervisors was shot over it. The rest suffered severe damage to their political careers.
3.) I'm not sure the team could make a viable argument for relocating. Where would they go? What other market is large enough to support them? Montreal might try to go down that road again but I doubt it. Portland probably doesn't have a large enough tax base to justify it. I suppose Carolina, New Orleans, or Tennessee might present some risk. But, honestly, if the Diamondbacks do end up leaving Chase Field, I half-expect it will be to a new privately funded stadium on the Talking Stick Indian reservation. (They've had a great deal of success with their spring training facility at Salt River Fields, so it seems to be a partnership that works.)

Oakland needs a new one, for both MLB and NFL, and preferably not the same building. But that one's being worked, and at least there's talk of it moving forward in the next year or so (Raiders piece, assume it leads MLB to action as well).

Agreed. I disagree with all corporate welfare on principle but at least I can see an argument for why Oakland needs a new building or 2. Oakland Coliseum is a shit-hole and it's kinda surprising that anyone has put up with it for this long. But, honestly, I'm not sure the teams should stay in Oakland anyway. I saw a study a few years ago that indicated that, in Oakland, the A's & Raiders fans are outnumbered by the Giants & 49ers fans. Even 20 years after they left Los Angeles, there are still more Raiders fans in L.A. than there are in Oakland.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

And don't even get me started on Atlanta.

(I'm sorry. I can't resist.) What's the deal with Atlanta?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The Falcons have only been playing in the Georgia Dome since 1992, and they are already building a new stadium.

Which is bad enough, but the Braves have only been at Turner Field since 1997 - 1997!!! - and they're moving out too...

It's absolutely insane, IMHO. Both of those stadia are still perfectly usable - and, more importantly, NOT multi-purpose (i.e. not 'cookie cutter,' unlike Fulton County Stadium). It's a complete waste of time and money to replace them so soon - no matter WHO the hell is paying for their replacements.

As for the Trop: Its actual playing area isn't that bad, I guess, although I always thought they should paint the inside surface of the roof with a starfield or cloudscape to make it look less like a damn office building. And they should gut and rebuild the interior concourses, which look like the 80's threw up.

 

[Tosk]

I say if they build 'em with public money, then the admission should be free. Yeah, that'll fly.

 

[Kronos]

Any city building a new MLB field is run by fools, there is NO real threat of anyone moving because there is nowhere for them to go, baseball teams require huge support bases, Charlotte, Portland, Nashville, San Antonio, not a chance, and Montreal is a pipe dream, the Jays will move to Mexico before Canada gets another team.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

And they won't let a MLB team move to Las Vegas. They should require all new baseball stadiums to have retractable roofs going forward.

 

[urbandefault]

Throw the bums out, I say. No profit from taxpayer money.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And they won't let a MLB team move to Las Vegas.

There's no rule - in any sport - that actually forbids a team from moving or expanding there. As far as baseball goes, the commish seems open to the idea...

 

[Timby]

(I'm sorry. I can't resist.) What's the deal with Atlanta?

The Braves claimed they needed something like $300 million in order to keep Turner Field as a viable stadium, and also cited public transportation issues as a reason for wanting to get out of Turner (in fairness, getting to and from Turner Field is a massive pain in the ass, whether by driving or by taking MARTA). They're moving to Cobb County because the county board rushed a vote to provide nearly $400 million of funding for a new stadium -- in a location that is not served in any way, shape or form by public transportation. It might be almost as disgusting as the Marlins' stadium deal.

According to Wikipedia, AT&T Park in San Francisco was built without public money.

This made Peter Magowan an eternal enemy of Bud Selig, because he privately financed his stadium at the same time that Selig was extorting cash from cities to build new parks on the taxpayers' dime.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Cobb County may not have MARTA, but it does have some kind of bus access, doesn't it? Better than nothing, I guess.

And didn't the Braves also say that the area in and around Turner Field is, let's say, not the safest place to be? I don't know how true that is, but still...

 

[Timby]

The area around Turner Field is economically depressed, but you can say that for most of Atlanta that isn't Midtown / Buckhead. It's perfectly safe; when I was working for a firm based in Atlanta, I traveled there every two months or so and caught a game when I could. It's just that you have to walk almost a mile in order to get to the field if you use public transit.

The current plans for the Cobb County stadium, as I recall, call for shuttle service to and from the parking lots. Want to use transit? Shit out of luck. The park's location near the Perimeter is already a massive traffic congestion hog, too.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I hope at least there's a Marriott within walking distance of the new park...

 

[gblews]

The city of Los Angeles is a shining example of standing up to corporate greed and demands for public "support" by NFL owners. Both the Rams and Raiders left becauase they were offered big money deals from Anaheim and later St. Louis, and, ironically, Oakland. All or most of the money being offered was being put up by the public in those cities. The city of L.A. refused to counter the offers with public money and both teams walked.

Some years later, a group based in L.A. who were going to build a privately funded stadium was awarded a new NFL franchise. But the league told the L.A. group that there was more money to be had, just get it from the public. The city counsel said "no", and that franchise is now playing in Houston.

Now, after 20 years of not having a team because they stuck to their guns, L.A. is about to get a new privately funded stadium and 2 franchises.

Meanwhile, the unfortunate citizens of St. Louis are left still paying for the stadium the Rams abandoned. Crazily enough, the fans there were about to offer the Rams ANOTHER publicly financed stadium to get the Rams to stay, even though they were still paying for the Ed Dome.

San Diegans are poised to vote on public financing for a new stadium the the Chargers this summer. If the ballot measure is turned down, the Chargers will leave for Inglewood.

I understand that L.A. is a big market city and the league needed us more than we needed them, but cities' risking financial calamity and neglecting areas where the money could be better spent, for billionaire NFL owners is ridiculous. LET THEM WALK. No one is incapable of getting over the loss of a team, I don't care who that team is. I am a living example.

 

[urbandefault]

I've been to that facility in St. Louis. Not for a football game, but a (non-fandom related) convention. Having a domed stadium as part of a convention center complex is a novel idea, but it just felt cramped and difficult to get in and out.

We stayed at the downtown Hilton, and pulled into town on a night when the Cardinals were playing in Busch Stadium. Traffic was nasty. I can only imagine what it's like for Rams games.