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Phelps: "Well, screw that."
Phelps: "Well, screw that."
Spoilers Now that we've gotten Batman v Superman, what are your thoughts on the DCEU?
- Thread starter JD
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I'm not an unbiased spectator. I was first and foremost a DC fan back in the 70's, reading a lot of 60's and 70's material. I was young and much of it, with hindsight, was 'fluff'. I grew older and graduated onto what seemed more grown up Marvel comics. I know DC took a darker turn in the 80's with Killing Joke and Dark Knight Returns, which I loved. I stopped reading comics in the late 80's, but I still tend to think of DC as a bit lightweight. I suppose I was a bit of a Marvel fanboy, and this probably colours my take on live action DC.
The DC TV shows, which I've dipped into (and back out of) pretty much match my expectations of being lightweight and although I intend to give them another go, I've not been impressed, whereas Daredevil and Jessica Jones both pressed my buttons.
The DC cinematic universe seems to have taken DC's darker route, and even allowing for inspiration from TDK, I struggled to recognise the characters, Superman especially. Eventually I accepted that these aren't the comic characters like the Reeve/Routh Superman was, and made my peace with them.
I quite liked Man of Steel, and despite finding it flawed on many levels, enjoyed BvS more than I expected to. I'm looking forward to the future instalments, especially Wonder Woman.
I think DC may struggle - outside of the big three, Flash, Green Lantern and Green Arrow, I don't think DC have many decent characters, but Marvel had lost many of their first string characters and they've obviously pulled it off. I just don't see that the DC creatives are similarly capable.
I think Suicide Squad will be the make or break, for me at least. I've got zero interest in the film and no fondness for any of the characters. If they can make me like it, they'll be doing O.K...
The DC TV shows, which I've dipped into (and back out of) pretty much match my expectations of being lightweight and although I intend to give them another go, I've not been impressed, whereas Daredevil and Jessica Jones both pressed my buttons.
The DC cinematic universe seems to have taken DC's darker route, and even allowing for inspiration from TDK, I struggled to recognise the characters, Superman especially. Eventually I accepted that these aren't the comic characters like the Reeve/Routh Superman was, and made my peace with them.
I quite liked Man of Steel, and despite finding it flawed on many levels, enjoyed BvS more than I expected to. I'm looking forward to the future instalments, especially Wonder Woman.
I think DC may struggle - outside of the big three, Flash, Green Lantern and Green Arrow, I don't think DC have many decent characters, but Marvel had lost many of their first string characters and they've obviously pulled it off. I just don't see that the DC creatives are similarly capable.
I think Suicide Squad will be the make or break, for me at least. I've got zero interest in the film and no fondness for any of the characters. If they can make me like it, they'll be doing O.K...
No.
Nothing has changed for me. I'm firmly onboard with the DC movies and I'm very much looking forward to Suicide Squad.
Well the WB is definitely going to make some major changes after BvS' negative reception, so I have to know what those changes are before I know if I like them. We'll probably know a lot more about the future of the DCEU when Suicide Squad is out and reviews and box office numbers start pouring in.
More important than changing the tone is getting a more consistent director. Snyder does some things very well but other things quite badly. He just can't seem to make something that's uniformly good, and the things he's done best (at least from what I hear about their reception) have been extremely faithful adaptations of other people's stories. When he does a more original story, even one based on existing characters, it's much more of a mess, both in terms of plot cohesion and tonal consistency.
I love the Suicide Squad trailer and think it looks crazy fun. If the rumblings are true and the tone of the movie doesn't match trailer 2, I'm out.
Is Snyder the new Michael Bay?
I said this before. I'm treating each movie as an indpendent that has to stand on it's own feet. If the movie only makes sense as part of a larger ensemble of movies, then the movie hasn't done its job in providing a compelling story and characters.
Just look at Lord of The Rings, Harry Potter or Hunger Games. Except for Mockingjay Part 1 and The Hobbit Tri-4-ology, most of the movies can stand up to independent scrutiny.
Just look at Lord of The Rings, Harry Potter or Hunger Games. Except for Mockingjay Part 1 and The Hobbit Tri-4-ology, most of the movies can stand up to independent scrutiny.
They certainly come from a similar school of directorial thought, the mentality that filmmaking is more about visuals than story or ideas. I think, from what little I've seen of both directors' work, that there's somewhat more of merit in Snyder's work than Bay's, but the worthwhile stuff is swamped and undermined by the self-indulgent, undisciplined stuff, so Snyder sabotages himself.
One could see a series of films of this nature as, in essence, episodes of a TV series.
Love the look, love the style, love the tone, love the content. Can't wait for more DCEU!
I love the song but they used one of the greatest songs ever to hide behind, it kinda wasn't fair.
Suicide Squad does nothing for me, especially after the two Snyder trainwrecks.
Maybe Wonder Woman will give me hope. Maybe.
I'm looking forward to "Suicide Squad", it looks like fun, and I'm really looking forward to Katana, one of my favorite C-Listers (even though I don't think she really belongs with the Suicide Squad, not being a villain and all that).
WW, looking forward to that. I kinda worry that they're using the New 52-origin of Diana being the daughter of Zeus, instead of being made out of clay, but while I still dislike that change, I'm not as on the fence about it as I used to be. The depiction of her personality is definitely more important, and Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins both come across as earnest in trying to show Diana's love and kindness, and not just her fighting skills and power.
I'm also looking forward to the JL movies, though I do hope they go with a brighter mood than they've shown up to now. Looking forward to Aquaman, but more in a "let's see what they do with this" kind of way. Flash, well, I love the TV show, so I just hope WB doesn't kill that in favor of the movie. The movie itself might be fun.
Not looking forward to Cyborg. Sorry, Mr Wolfman, sorry Mr Johns, I still think Victor is a Teen Titans and doesn't belong on the Justice League, at least not as a founding member.
WW, looking forward to that. I kinda worry that they're using the New 52-origin of Diana being the daughter of Zeus, instead of being made out of clay, but while I still dislike that change, I'm not as on the fence about it as I used to be. The depiction of her personality is definitely more important, and Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins both come across as earnest in trying to show Diana's love and kindness, and not just her fighting skills and power.
I'm also looking forward to the JL movies, though I do hope they go with a brighter mood than they've shown up to now. Looking forward to Aquaman, but more in a "let's see what they do with this" kind of way. Flash, well, I love the TV show, so I just hope WB doesn't kill that in favor of the movie. The movie itself might be fun.
Not looking forward to Cyborg. Sorry, Mr Wolfman, sorry Mr Johns, I still think Victor is a Teen Titans and doesn't belong on the Justice League, at least not as a founding member.
Since Snyder isn't directing Suicide Squad, merely executive-producing, that gives me hope.
I'd be glad if the movie were impressive enough to counteract all the "Aquaman is lame" memes, which really aren't fair (they're based mainly on his Super Friends role, but everyone was lame there). But I've never been at all impressed with Jason Momoa as an actor. He was terrible on Stargate Atlantis, delivering all these lines in a monotone mumble that was barely comprehensible and completely uninteresting. (Although it is amusing that this is his second role that's connected to a place called Atlantis.)
I can certainly see the logic there, though. Having the JL's founders be all-white is a bad idea in this day and age, and DC's A-list is sort of lacking in people of color, so it makes sense to try to promote someone (or race-lift someone, as they've done with Momoa's Aquaman, but there's no reason you can't do both). Precedent and tradition shouldn't matter when they're tainted by the racial or gender privileges of a less enlightened time. And Cyborg is a prominent character to today's generation because of his role in the Teen Titans animated series. (Indeed, even before then, Cyborg was added to the Justice League in the last two seasons of the Super Friends franchise in the early '80s, probably for much the same reasons.)
Thing is, on the Justice League, Cyborg will never be anything more than a sidekick. Sure, he's valuable and stuff, but c'mon, he's a Teen Titan.
Besides, I think there are other black heroes DC could have gone for. Like John Stewart, Black Lightning, Michael Holt, Vixen, hell, they made J'onn J'onzz' human identity black in SV, Justice League: Doom, Supergirl, and the New 52. And that's even excluding the Milestone characters, since DC might not have the rights to use those in the movies (even though Icon was a member of the JL on Young Justice, and Static was shown to be a future member of the JL on Justice League Unlimited).
Besides, I think there are other black heroes DC could have gone for. Like John Stewart, Black Lightning, Michael Holt, Vixen, hell, they made J'onn J'onzz' human identity black in SV, Justice League: Doom, Supergirl, and the New 52. And that's even excluding the Milestone characters, since DC might not have the rights to use those in the movies (even though Icon was a member of the JL on Young Justice, and Static was shown to be a future member of the JL on Justice League Unlimited).
They should use John Stewart. I'd drop Aquaman and Flash from the JL and cancel their movies and replace them with Green Lantern and Zatanna (they can cast an asian woman), another woman wouldn't hurt and a magic user would have a completely different power set, establishing magic as real in the DCEU would also help them down the line because it's one of Superman's major weaknesses. I'd keep Cyborg because of the technology theme.
I'd be interested in Flash is a fantastic version wouldn't already exist on TV.
Sure, John Stewart would be a good choice (forgot about him, sorry), but I don't see why Cyborg can't be (aside from a rather lame code name).
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