Why do people die in Star Trek?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by PhaserLightShow, Mar 31, 2016.

  1. PhaserLightShow

    PhaserLightShow Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Location:
    USS Enterprise
    In Star Trek, officers such as "Red Shirts" and Captain Spock die.
    How do they die?
    With the transporter you could make their last pattern rematerialize. And in TNG, DS9, and VOY, you could replicate the body. Why is that not done?

    @PhaserLightShow
     
  2. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    You would have to have someone in the transporter to alter into the person you want to come out. There has to be something to work with. And there is likely limits to how much of a change the transdporter can impose.

    You put someone's corpse into the transporter and set it for "younger," you'd might get out a nice young corpse, but not a living person.

    There is nothing in any of the series to suggest that the transporter can reanimte a corpse.

    They couldn't even recreate Neelix's missing lung, because there was nothing there (in his chest) to work with.

     
  3. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    The transporter buffer and stuff.

    You can't replicate a person because of the often stated limitation of replicating complex organic patterns.

    The in universe explanation of why you can't use the transporter to make human backups is that the size of data is too huge and complex to store for very long, and you can't materialize the pattern without destroying it. This is supported in Relics and Our Man Bashir.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    It's TV. No death equals no drama.
     
  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Scotland
    The transporter converts matter into energy and then rematerialises said matter into the original pattern (when they work properly that is), they can't create new matter--it's not some kind of cloning machine...although that is kinda what happened in "Second Chances", though there was a second annular confinement beam in the mix there...hmm.

    Besides alternate timelines/universes/protomatter/[insert technobabble here] can resurrect dead characters whenever the plot demands it.
     
  6. B.J.

    B.J. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2004
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    I'd agree with you, but unfortunately Thomas Riker would probably disagree. No idea how they suddenly gained the mass of another Riker to materialize.
     
    PhaserLightShow likes this.
  7. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    We had an argument about this recently in some random thread. My argument was that it cannot be done. Replicators cannot replicate really complex things such as living beings and transporters are not copying machines. If you need an explanation for the latter, let's say that transporters use quantum data and are thus governed by no-cloning theorem. What we seen on screen seems to mostly support this.
     
  8. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Mass is not the problem, it is just matter. The pattern is the problem, if it is quantum data, it should be impossible to duplicate it. But maybe there is some alternate universe where Riker vanished in a transporter accident on Nervala IV. But whatever was the reason for the double-Riker, it is safe to say it is something that cannot be intentionally repeated.
     
  9. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    Same place those two Kirks came from, or where half of Tuvix's mass went. There must be some kind of matter slush tank in the transporter system.
     
    PhotoBoy likes this.
  10. hux

    hux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Location:
    Hard Sassenach in Moist Aberdeen
    The duplication has to happen when you're alive otherwise it duplicates the dead thing. I'm sure Section 31 have explored the technology and duplicated people. I suspect there's another Sloane out there.
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    In Our Man Bashir they tried to dump five transporter patterns into the main computer and it took up the entire computer and the holosuites. I suppose that suggests it is possible to save the patterns and replicate them except the plot reason you can't is that if you try to store transporter patterns they 'degrade'.
     
  12. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Since the transporter is a suicide box, it cannot be used as anything other than a clone device. Which is what it is. That's what makes everyone who steps into one so brave; they know they're about to die and someone else exactly like them will continue on doing exactly what they would have done. Except for that Riker guy.
     
    PhotoBoy and bbjeg like this.
  13. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    To escape the monotony.
     
    Kor likes this.
  14. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2015
    Location:
    Rigel VII
    There's no need for the transporter to resurrect people when Star Trek has already Borg nanoprobes, an injection that cures death and various other methods available.
     
  15. PhaserLightShow

    PhaserLightShow Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Location:
    USS Enterprise
    Yes, the data of matter is always stored in the Pattern Buffer. I say we can replicate matter from there.

    I am talking about the in-universe (inside the Star Trek fictional world), not the real-life reasons. Dead people in STAR TREK don't care about drama.

    But the reason the double-Riker was created was a double-anular-confinement beam (that holds a pattern together). I believe that could be done again. Why not?
    The pattern of Lieutenant Riker was duplicated (we get Tom, and we get Will). Why is that not done elsewhere in Star Trek (to make 2 Jean-Luc Picard's so one can command the Enterprise-D and be safe, while another can be leading an away team)?
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    People in the Star Trek verse are pious about being "enlightened." Allowing primitive civilizations to die is more enlightened than saving them since that would reveal aliens exist and contaminate them, worse than extinction apparently. Children are taught it's not enlightened to mourn loved ones when they die. We can infer it's likely not enlightened to intentionally create transporter clones, regardless the intent behind it.
     
  17. PhaserLightShow

    PhaserLightShow Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Location:
    USS Enterprise
    Enlightened?!
    I don't care what people think of what I do (whether it is enlightened or not).
    How is it enlightened to mourn dead people? When were children taught that in the 24th century.

    @PhaserLightShow
    (and the land of "phantasy" @HMS Ark Royal claims I live in)
     
  18. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    Why do people die in Star Trek?
    Because they stop living.

    Kor
     
    Zonker and Jinn like this.
  19. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Because it's not possible. What happened to Riker was a freak accident in unusual circumstances and cannot be intentionally recreated. Why it works that way? I don't know. Insert made up technobabble as needed. If really knew how transporters worked I'd be filling a patent application instead of arguing about TV shows on the internet.
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    TNG season 1.