Pretty much that, I agree with you. That's what I'm saying a lot.
Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion
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Pretty much that, I agree with you. That's what I'm saying a lot.
So any excitement that we're getting another DC film with Ben Affleck Batman in a few months.
Yes, and that's part of why the rest of the world gives funny looks to fans of "genre" fiction.
Kor
From what I've read, it sounds like Batman's role is probably not going to be much bigger than The Flash's in BvS, so I'm not that excited by him being in it. The impression I've gotten is that it's not going to be much more than a cameo in a flashback for Harley and/or The Joker.
EDIT: After reading some of the posts here, watching Supergirl, and reading this article on CBR's Comics Should Be Good, I've reevaluated my feelings on the DCEU Superman. I was one of the people who thought that the "Big Blue Boyscout" version of Superman really wouldn't work in a modern, darker more cynical style of story, but now I'm starting to think that that kind of story could use the more traditional version. Instead of making Superman just as dark and cynical as the world around him, make him a bright, positive, optomistic counter to that world. So many of our stories are dark and cynical, so give us a bright optimstic hero who is able to stand out from that crowd, and be a more positive hero. I still like the movies, but I do think approaching Supeman was a mistake.
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I'd like to see a PROPER Superman.
Having actually watched Man of Steel, I wondering where the dark and cynical Superman stuff is coming from.
Seriously the guy spends the movie usually trying to do the right thing.
What he's cynical because him and his dad figure people will freak out about an all powerful alien running around and are a little worried about that?
^ I'm not seeing it either.
There's a million articles about this, but bringing up Pa Kent is quite symbolic to the many issues of the movie and its cynical outlook. As I just read here, which says it much better than I ever could.
I was awaiting inspiration for a good "Martha, Martha, Martha" joke myself.
So basically how dare Superman's dad be understandably worried that if his kid shows that he has weird powers he might end up strapped to a table and bisected by a government that in real life has been doing some pretty shady and probably illegal shit and so yeah kidnapping a kid to dissect him is sadly believeable.
I hate to break it to you but the Day The Earth Stood Still remake probably has a very acruate portrayal of how mankind will likely react to aliens showing up which is basically freaking the hell out.
So I have a question on the Flash "dream." Was it really a dream-within-a-dream? When we see The Flash it's after Bruce wakes up from the "Injustice" dream (or whatever) and he's in the Batcave and sees Flash coming through talking to him, when Flash disappears Bruce "wakes up" again in the Batcave, leaving to some speculate this was a dream-within-a-dream.
But maybe this was a side-effect of the time-displacement? Maybe Flash visited Bruce in reality (thus explaining how The Flash was able to go into Bruce's dreams, he didn't) just the effects of the time-displacement made it seem like a dream/knocked him out and he woke up again or "hiccuped" the time and when he wakes up the second time it's him waking up from the apocalyptic dream but seeing the Flash vision as part of the dream.
But maybe this was a side-effect of the time-displacement? Maybe Flash visited Bruce in reality (thus explaining how The Flash was able to go into Bruce's dreams, he didn't) just the effects of the time-displacement made it seem like a dream/knocked him out and he woke up again or "hiccuped" the time and when he wakes up the second time it's him waking up from the apocalyptic dream but seeing the Flash vision as part of the dream.
Agreed about the Superman in MOS. But it BvS it felt to me like he suddenly this much more dour and passive figure who seemed completely cut off from the world and was just sort of going through the motions of being a hero.
I really loved the work MOS did to humanize the character, but in BVS he's reduced to nothing but a symbol or plot device for the story.
Saw it on Friday and give it a solid A-. There's some things - the pacing, the dourness of Superman, and Eisenberg's Luthor - that could've been better, but overall I really really enjoyed it. And with Luthor, I'm aware that he's the son of the "proper" Lex Luthor so that helps... somewhat. Another nit I'd pick is that I'm not entirely clear on Batman's state - specifically, his family life pre-Superman. He's meant to have been married and lost his wife in the Metropolis attack? Is that little girl meant to be his daughter?
But overall what an impressive take on Batman and Bruce Wayne as a cynical, worn-out, tired older crimefighter who's lost Robin and is being pushed to extremes out of despondency. Some great interplay between him and Alfred. I really liked how he started out in such a dark place but seems to be edging back towards the light by the end.
The highlight though was Gal Godot as Wonder Woman surprisingly. Even for as little screen time as she got, she glowed and when she enters the fray to save Batman and take on Doomsday, it was fantastic. I'm so ready for her movie now.
Another thing that really really worked for me was using Martha's name to defuse the fight between Bats and Supes. I'd never picked up on the coincidence of Martha Wayne and Martha Kent both, so it took me by surprise. And what better way to shock Bats into backing off for a moment than by first throwing him back to his mother's death (who he couldn't save), then making a connection with this Alien. Probably my favorite moment of the movie, to be honest.
ETA: Despite not generally caring for this take on Lex though, I do have to admit I was blown away (ha...ha... ha...) by the audacity of his plan to get rid of the Senator. Although: does that mean no more Mercy Graves? Already?
But overall what an impressive take on Batman and Bruce Wayne as a cynical, worn-out, tired older crimefighter who's lost Robin and is being pushed to extremes out of despondency. Some great interplay between him and Alfred. I really liked how he started out in such a dark place but seems to be edging back towards the light by the end.
The highlight though was Gal Godot as Wonder Woman surprisingly. Even for as little screen time as she got, she glowed and when she enters the fray to save Batman and take on Doomsday, it was fantastic. I'm so ready for her movie now.
Another thing that really really worked for me was using Martha's name to defuse the fight between Bats and Supes. I'd never picked up on the coincidence of Martha Wayne and Martha Kent both, so it took me by surprise. And what better way to shock Bats into backing off for a moment than by first throwing him back to his mother's death (who he couldn't save), then making a connection with this Alien. Probably my favorite moment of the movie, to be honest.
ETA: Despite not generally caring for this take on Lex though, I do have to admit I was blown away (ha...ha... ha...) by the audacity of his plan to get rid of the Senator. Although: does that mean no more Mercy Graves? Already?
BVS only suffered from two issues: shaky editing in some areas, and the usual need to have a big conflict to convince previously and fiercely solo-act characters to work together.
BVS handled it better than the cartoony Avengers, with its unrealistic "conflicts" (beyond Loki's interference) and awful one-liners.
The significant takeaway from BVS--more than being a set-up film is the repeated comment on humankind--or some members of humankind's hurt ego / false perceptions in the form of Wayne and Luthor. On one side, Luthor's sense of inferiority (barely covering his egomania--explored in various print and adapted versions of Luthor) felt inferior to an alien--often making atheistic slurs about God in reference to how Superman is perceived, when all along, Superman does not see or carry himself that way. He certainly has a bit of a detachment (brought on by humans willing to drop their own long-lived culture to "crown" an alien), but his upbringing with the Kents & his relationship with Lois has made him a full "immigrant" into the human community.
Then, there's Wayne, who lived his life taking himself beyond the average, to always have physical and intellectual advantages over just about anyone, yet he ignores the irony in hating someone who occupies the same position (with Wayne arguably being an inherently violent man, instead of violence being a "necessary evil" of the job). He also has misapplied beliefs about Superman's place in the world, instead of using his common sense to understand that Superman has natural limits to avoid using his extraordinary abilities to turning into a false God figure..or in Batman's case, an untouchable version. Same effect.
It was timely that Wonder Woman--a being of enormous power--has no need to play false God, arrives to serve as an example of heroism not self conscious of position or ego--she's there to help and end a threat. Its not about her--the very thing lost on Wayne & Luthor.
Noe, I understand that she might have a different attitude when we see her operating in the past, but her present day self is not shackled to the defeatist concept of jealousy and inferiority complex. Thankfully, Wayne--for now--sees the value in other super-powered beings who are there to serve, instead of the other way around.
In all, BVS was not the greatest of all superhero adaptations, but it was a strong, memorable introduction to the larger DC universe. There was a purpose fulfilled. Its too bad DC's TV series are not so bold in idea or execution by any stretch of the imagination. They seem rather hollow by comparison.
BVS handled it better than the cartoony Avengers, with its unrealistic "conflicts" (beyond Loki's interference) and awful one-liners.
The significant takeaway from BVS--more than being a set-up film is the repeated comment on humankind--or some members of humankind's hurt ego / false perceptions in the form of Wayne and Luthor. On one side, Luthor's sense of inferiority (barely covering his egomania--explored in various print and adapted versions of Luthor) felt inferior to an alien--often making atheistic slurs about God in reference to how Superman is perceived, when all along, Superman does not see or carry himself that way. He certainly has a bit of a detachment (brought on by humans willing to drop their own long-lived culture to "crown" an alien), but his upbringing with the Kents & his relationship with Lois has made him a full "immigrant" into the human community.
Then, there's Wayne, who lived his life taking himself beyond the average, to always have physical and intellectual advantages over just about anyone, yet he ignores the irony in hating someone who occupies the same position (with Wayne arguably being an inherently violent man, instead of violence being a "necessary evil" of the job). He also has misapplied beliefs about Superman's place in the world, instead of using his common sense to understand that Superman has natural limits to avoid using his extraordinary abilities to turning into a false God figure..or in Batman's case, an untouchable version. Same effect.
It was timely that Wonder Woman--a being of enormous power--has no need to play false God, arrives to serve as an example of heroism not self conscious of position or ego--she's there to help and end a threat. Its not about her--the very thing lost on Wayne & Luthor.
Noe, I understand that she might have a different attitude when we see her operating in the past, but her present day self is not shackled to the defeatist concept of jealousy and inferiority complex. Thankfully, Wayne--for now--sees the value in other super-powered beings who are there to serve, instead of the other way around.
In all, BVS was not the greatest of all superhero adaptations, but it was a strong, memorable introduction to the larger DC universe. There was a purpose fulfilled. Its too bad DC's TV series are not so bold in idea or execution by any stretch of the imagination. They seem rather hollow by comparison.
$420M Worldwide in its first weekend.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Superman#tab=summary
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Superman#tab=summary
Hate to break it to you, but a human looking alien in tights and a cape isn't an accurate portrayal of how things will go either.
Regardless, who said anything about the real world? It's fiction. They're allowed to have characters act with hope and without cynicism. It's actually what drew many of us to these powerful and larger than life characters in the first place.
I dunno, that was too contrived and made no sense. Superman just says, "I have to save Martha," and that sends Batman into a tailspin of realizing what he's doing is wrong and that he and Superman should be BFFs and work together? There's no development or change there it happens pretty much because it needs to happen.
I would have made more sense if Lois had rushed in at the last moment and went to Superman's side and held him, pleading with Batman to spare him and that he needs Batman's help to save his human mother. That, sending Batman into his parental flashback and realizing how far he's fallen and that Superman is "just a man" doing what he thinks is right and Batman is the aggressor and antagonist here.
But no, it's just "Your mom's name is Martha?! My mom's name was Martha! Oh, man! I had you all wrong!"
It's not cynicism, it's accepting the world isn't perfect and neither are the people in it.