Interesting although not too surprising that Hillary's message pretty much is, she even directly saying it, "Stick with the plan!"
Probably not inspiring to voters even if it actually is the best option.
Refugees in the EU
- Thread starter Kilana2
- Start date
Interesting although not too surprising that Hillary's message pretty much is, she even directly saying it, "Stick with the plan!"
Probably not inspiring to voters even if it actually is the best option.
i am Austrian Citizen (next country to Germany) and i can tell you: they majority are agressive, male migrants, arabic origin, marocc, afganistan and the flood whith their mass of people our borders. we have a lot of trouble with them: increasing rape numbers, violance, fraud with multiple identiys/registration - also children double and multiple registrated so i dont believe this numbers of missing childs. A lot of this man pretend to be underage because of better treatment, they are eg. 20 and say they are 15. In Sweden, which has biggest problem with migrant violance, a girl working for this refugee industriy was murdered, stabbed by a so called minor. Most suck on our social system, complain a lot and rape, harass whatever they can get, a 10y old boy raped in a public aqua park. Between Syria and Germany/Austria are a lot of countrys, they should stay in the next safe country, everything else is migration for economic reason. We are afraid of a civil war here. We are afraid of them, afraid to go out in the night, to drive underground where they hunt in groups, this is called tarrush gamea in arabic. its one step bevore gang rape, they go in big numbers and make circles around victims, put fingers in body holes and rob also.
it is because of a "information stopp" by police (they dont tell about crimes done by "refugees") that there are still stupid people who want to have them here. Mayority of citizens just want to get rid of them but politicians dont act. They are afraid to protect our borders and to deport gangsters. We have a lot respect and hope in Putin and Orban (the hungarian president). They see and tell the things clear: it is a muslim Invasion, Migration as a weapon. they want to dominate the world and with their number of people, they may succed.
That's hyperbolic. Poor transliteration aside (did you go to the Daily Mail for that?) taḥarrush jamāʿī (collective harrassment) and taḥarrush jinsi (sexual harrassment) are issues hotly debated as women become more of a public and political force in the Middle East. There are a lot of problems, real problems there, and for refugees in Europe. Wildly exaggerated claims and unsubstantiated statements like this posting do no one any good.
you may not believe me - future will tell. 10years ago - Bosnia war - no one believed what happend in that serbian camps.
What happend Cologne New Year happens in "little amount" nearly every day, even in small Citys, woman harrassed, rapes.
What happend Cologne New Year happens in "little amount" nearly every day, even in small Citys, woman harrassed, rapes.
There is nothing to believe or disbelieve. What you've posted so far has been nothing but unsubstantiated ranting which amounts to 'The savages are coming, hide the women and children!'
That is the first time I have ever read those words...
Are we to believe, now, women have been harassed or assaulted regularly by groups of European or American men before these events? Or if it did, would professionals and government officials try to cover it up?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal
So, are the incidents really only from the refugee community? Are the numbers of people involved relative to the population really out of proportion to the sexual assault and harassment statistics typically found? Whatever those numbers might be, wouldn't the greatest factor for the cause be men especially young ones with no jobs, no social outlets, and no community networks who are just adrift in places they have little to do but think on their inability to change their current situation or the causes for it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal
So, are the incidents really only from the refugee community? Are the numbers of people involved relative to the population really out of proportion to the sexual assault and harassment statistics typically found? Whatever those numbers might be, wouldn't the greatest factor for the cause be men especially young ones with no jobs, no social outlets, and no community networks who are just adrift in places they have little to do but think on their inability to change their current situation or the causes for it?
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Anybody have any evidence that a majority of Austrians "have a lot respect and hope in Putin"? Bueller?
Everything @lisaa6@gmail.co has posted reads like typical FPÖ populist fear mongering. The love for Putin is another of those things that are more or less exclusive to the FPÖ in Austria.
I'd link some of their xenophobic or islamophobic campaign posters but there are just too many of them so I can't decide. If @Chilli were around, he could probably go on a multi-page FPÖ rant.
I've only skimmed her post, has she already started ranting about migrant "rape gangs"?
I'm kinda tired of these right-wing conspiracies.
Yeah, she mentioned them raping women (and children) more than once.
A thread like this sure brings a certain kind of person out of the woodwork.
A thread like this sure brings a certain kind of person out of the woodwork.
You're throwing out a lot of unsupported claims which are heavy on outrage and low on actual evidence (in fact, none is provided beyond taking your word for it). Please back up your claims with some evidence or stop making them. I'm not going to have this forum turn into a damn Stormfront convention.
While there certainly are some issues when it comes to integrating and dealing with a huge number of mostly young males from predomanintly Islamic countries, I can't help but feel that the rise of right-wing propaganda is the much bigger threat to our liberal-democratic societies.
Right-wing propaganda feeds on fear and it spreads through irrational means. The xenophobic right creates a narrative that is self-reinforcing. Even when nothing bad is happening the racists can just claim that "mainstream media" simply is covering things up.
As Spiegel puts it:
Nevermind the fact that no such thing as "the mainstream media" exists as a single entity:
We live in pluralistic societies with a plethora of independent, free media. Of course they make mistakes at times but the idea that "mainstream media" is covering up "Muslim rape gangs roaming the streets of Europe" in a concerted effort is laughable.
It's implying that there is a conspirative coordination between every single media outlet in Europe.
It is absurd to the highest degree and it shows a naive belief in conspiracies that is appalling in societies that pride themselves on being civil societies of responsible, well-informed citizens.
Posts like @lisaa6@gmail.co's literally make me worry. They scare me. Because conspiracy-driven xenophobic hate and fear is a serious threat to our free societies. And I don't want these people to win. I don't want this hateful agenda to become a legitimate part of the public discourse. That is precisely what the right-wing propaganda is trying to accomplish.
Right-wing propaganda feeds on fear and it spreads through irrational means. The xenophobic right creates a narrative that is self-reinforcing. Even when nothing bad is happening the racists can just claim that "mainstream media" simply is covering things up.
As Spiegel puts it:
Der SPIEGEL said:
Nevermind the fact that no such thing as "the mainstream media" exists as a single entity:
Der SPIEGEL said:
We live in pluralistic societies with a plethora of independent, free media. Of course they make mistakes at times but the idea that "mainstream media" is covering up "Muslim rape gangs roaming the streets of Europe" in a concerted effort is laughable.
It's implying that there is a conspirative coordination between every single media outlet in Europe.
It is absurd to the highest degree and it shows a naive belief in conspiracies that is appalling in societies that pride themselves on being civil societies of responsible, well-informed citizens.
Posts like @lisaa6@gmail.co's literally make me worry. They scare me. Because conspiracy-driven xenophobic hate and fear is a serious threat to our free societies. And I don't want these people to win. I don't want this hateful agenda to become a legitimate part of the public discourse. That is precisely what the right-wing propaganda is trying to accomplish.
Unfortunately, it has no English subtitles, but the following German journalistic TV program "Panorama" is very informative:
The first segment is about those false reports, how and why they spread, and what's behind them. There're interviews with the police in one case where they "covered it up" for a few days, where he explains that had nothing to do with the accused being refugees, but with the accused as well as the victims being underage. The protection of the victim is totally ignored by the right-wing propaganda.
It doesn't help that Rainer Wendt from the German police union is repeating this rumor about the police having to cover up crimes committed by refugees under pressure of left-leaning politicians. The journalists in that program asked for an example to prove his allegation, but he could not give one.
The second segment should be very interesting to you, @{ Emilia } , as it shows exactly what you mentioned, the rise of right-wing crime, not only against foreigners, but against politicians as well. It focuses on the experiences of the mayor of a German city where a new refugee camp is to be opened. From death threats per mail to rocks through her window and a group of people standing in front of her house proclaiming loudly they knew where she lived.
Let's not forget what happened in Cologne last October, just prior to the election of for mayor, when a candidate was attacked and injured by a right-wing nut.
Of course, the attacks against refugees is to be mentioned, as well. Recently, an unknown person threw a hand grenade into a refugee camp in Villingen-Schwenningen in the Black Forest. Luckily, the grenade didn't go off, but it shows just how far some people are going with this.
The third segment shows what the pressure of the European Union on Greece to better secure their borders against refugees costs. A NGO committed to save refugees from drowning by meeting them just before the shores of Lesbos and leading them safely on land, helping them avoid the spikey rocks near the shore, has been banned from patrolling the shore. Members of a different NGO with the same strategy have even been arrested and accused of smuggling people across the border, even though they never leave Greek waters.
The first segment is about those false reports, how and why they spread, and what's behind them. There're interviews with the police in one case where they "covered it up" for a few days, where he explains that had nothing to do with the accused being refugees, but with the accused as well as the victims being underage. The protection of the victim is totally ignored by the right-wing propaganda.
It doesn't help that Rainer Wendt from the German police union is repeating this rumor about the police having to cover up crimes committed by refugees under pressure of left-leaning politicians. The journalists in that program asked for an example to prove his allegation, but he could not give one.
The second segment should be very interesting to you, @{ Emilia } , as it shows exactly what you mentioned, the rise of right-wing crime, not only against foreigners, but against politicians as well. It focuses on the experiences of the mayor of a German city where a new refugee camp is to be opened. From death threats per mail to rocks through her window and a group of people standing in front of her house proclaiming loudly they knew where she lived.
Let's not forget what happened in Cologne last October, just prior to the election of for mayor, when a candidate was attacked and injured by a right-wing nut.
Of course, the attacks against refugees is to be mentioned, as well. Recently, an unknown person threw a hand grenade into a refugee camp in Villingen-Schwenningen in the Black Forest. Luckily, the grenade didn't go off, but it shows just how far some people are going with this.
The third segment shows what the pressure of the European Union on Greece to better secure their borders against refugees costs. A NGO committed to save refugees from drowning by meeting them just before the shores of Lesbos and leading them safely on land, helping them avoid the spikey rocks near the shore, has been banned from patrolling the shore. Members of a different NGO with the same strategy have even been arrested and accused of smuggling people across the border, even though they never leave Greek waters.
I shall consider myself summoned.
I can't actually provide any concrete data on Austrians' opinions on Putin, but I see no reason to believe they deviate from the European baseline. Everyone I hang out with hates the guy, but people I hang out with aren't a representative sample.
This article gives you some idea of general trends in the world as regards Putin's popularity. Basically, Putin (and Russia) are anything but popular, but are fostering relationships with populist movements on both the left and right across Europe (and with the Putin-Trump bromance, I guess we can now say across the world). The Kremlin also has a well-known massive troll army that's creating the illusion of a pro-Russian consensus in comments sections of newspapers in major European languages (but strangely, the same consensus can't be found to the same extent on Dutch-language news sites, for example). In Austria's case, it's more the right-wing populists that are relevant: The FPÖ (consider it our own little tea party) is quite vocal about its love and respect for Putin, and you can be sure the relationship is more symbiotic than sycophantic.
With the FPÖ actually headed for a relative majority (thank god not absolute) according to every poll made as of late, one might at first sight be tempted to conclude that Putin is disproportionately popular in Austria. Right-wing populists love Putin; right-wing populists are disproportionately strong in Austria; ergo, Austrians love Putin. But this is not a valid conclusion to make in my opinion. You shouldn't expect ideological coherence from voters of any political party, and that principle applies to an even larger extent to the FPÖ - a party built on base fears and reflexive, simplistic, cynical opposition to "the status quo" that is our centrist grant coalition (that, admittedly, does suck - but it's the FPÖ that makes any options other than the grand coalition non-viable). Outside of a comparatively small core of "true believers", the FPÖ's support isn't built around people buying into their "values" wholesale. Also illustrated by people's opinions on gay marriage, for example: polls show them to be roughly equivalent to those in Germany, for example (pretty strongly for, but the political system's to sluggish to have allowed legislation to match opinions), even if we've got this massive right-wing populist party going that's also really concerned about teh gheys.
Frankly, in my experience, FPÖ voters are too angry or afraid about things in their personal vicinity to give much of a shit about foreign politics one way or another. They don't care if the head of their party has a massive boner for Putin. They don't care if the head of their party speaks out in defense of Serbian war criminals. They don't care if the head of their party goes to Israel to hang out with radical pro-West-Bank-settlement groupings classified as extremist by the Israeli government. They don't care if the head of their party hangs out with Gadaffi or voices the "support of the Austrian people" to Saddam Hussein. (Those last two ones are not the current leader, admittedly.) Stuff like that's just not on people's radars when they make the decision to vote for the FPÖ, according to any of the polling. (Our exit polls also ask people WHY the voted for party XYZ, and "I really like my guy's support of Radovan Karadzic" is not something I've seen in any of those.)
That's not even good English if English is your second language.
Trouble belief of you.
The first problem in this crisis is the incorrect language, most are not refugees
they are illegals or economic migrants
Only one in five is from Syria and the majority of Syrian refugees are displaced people within Syria itself
The ones coming to Germany and other parts of Europe are from Chad, Bangladesh, Iran, Afghanistan, Niger, Albania, Eritrea and every other nation that is not called Syria
Only 1 in 5 is a Syrian refugee, the rest come with fake passports, this human trafficking with false passports is a huge business
Germany may have lost control, looks like the United States and NATO may step in
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/refugee-crisis-a-near-existential-threat-to-europe-john-kerry-1277033
The mass influx of refugees and other migrants into Europe spells a "near existential threat" to Europe, US Secretary of State John Kerry said on Saturday."The United States understands the near existential nature of this threat to the politics and fabric of life in Europe," he told the Munich Security Conference."We are not saying 'this is your problem, not ours'," he added. "This is our problem... And that is why we are joining now and enforcing a NATO mission to close off a key access route and we will join you in other ways to stem this tide."
they are illegals or economic migrants
Only one in five is from Syria and the majority of Syrian refugees are displaced people within Syria itself
The ones coming to Germany and other parts of Europe are from Chad, Bangladesh, Iran, Afghanistan, Niger, Albania, Eritrea and every other nation that is not called Syria
Only 1 in 5 is a Syrian refugee, the rest come with fake passports, this human trafficking with false passports is a huge business
Germany may have lost control, looks like the United States and NATO may step in
http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/refugee-crisis-a-near-existential-threat-to-europe-john-kerry-1277033
The mass influx of refugees and other migrants into Europe spells a "near existential threat" to Europe, US Secretary of State John Kerry said on Saturday."The United States understands the near existential nature of this threat to the politics and fabric of life in Europe," he told the Munich Security Conference."We are not saying 'this is your problem, not ours'," he added. "This is our problem... And that is why we are joining now and enforcing a NATO mission to close off a key access route and we will join you in other ways to stem this tide."
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