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Star Trek peeves

Entire organizations don't have flagships. Specific Admirals have flagships. That's the point - a flagship is any vessel on which an Admiral has planted his/her flag.

So for example, the Enterprise in TWOK was a flagship - because Admiral Kirk was in command.

Therefore the phrase "flagship of the Federation" makes no logical sense, but the writers use it anyway, I guess just because they think it sounds cool. :shrug:

My biggest peeve is how some fans believe that the Federation is exactly the same as the US military, how structures of crews won't change over 300 years, unification of a world, and then merge of that world into a galaxy-wide multi-species fleet.
 
Yeah, but ... if someone says they're going to walk over to the door, and they then walk to a window, it wouldn't make sense. IfTPTB used the term flagship, then actually have it be a recognizible flagship. Otherwise use a entirely different term.

Star Trek uses a rank structure that's only employed by half a dozen navy's, one of which is the United States. Starfleet, in a whole lot of ways, is the US Navy in space.
 
Star Trek uses a rank structure that's only employed by half a dozen navy's, one of which is the United States.

Only half a dozen? I find that hard to believe. So what does everyone else use, then?

Starfleet, in a whole lot of ways, is the US Navy in space.

Which makes sense, IMHO. Starfleet is an organization that operates fleets of ships, after all. Yeah, they're ships that fly in space, but they are still ships. Entirely logical that Starfleet should employ a naval structure, then.
 
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It is odd. But it's a scene I barely assimilate in all its dimensions because the movie is going fairly quickly at that point. Trying to explain it away is that they didn't want to bring Taylor onto the ship for their departure so they were beamed outside so they could say their goodbye there. But, yes, it's contrived, there's no two bits about it.
That's the explanation I made up for myself. I can't remember, but can we hear all of Kirk's dialog as he speaks into the communicator? He could have instructed Scotty to beam them outside the bird of prey so as not to let Gillian in.
 
Microsoft opens it's first flagship store: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/26/microsoft-opens-first-flagship-store-in-manhattan.html

The word "flagship" does not neccersailly mean the same in a massive organisation with 150 worlds over 8,000 light years that it does in a human navy. Colloquely in modern English is means "the shiny one"

The requirements for crewing a ship are not neccersarilly the same as now. In Napoleon's era the enlisted:officer ratio of his army was about 80:1, now it's about 5:1. As automation improves you need more and more training to be useful.

Another difference is that people go to Starfleet Academy straight out of high school, people tended to start at the Academy aged 17 or 18, not after earning a Bachelors degree like most officers in modern militaries. To be a leader you tend to go to the academy, however many people go to the academy and become fine officers with no real leadership desires. Picard, in the non-nausican-fight timeline doesn't take risks, doesn't stand out, but seems a perfectly competent crew member at a lt. j.g. level, despite having been an officer for 42 years.
 
people tended to start at the Academy aged 17 or 18, not after earning a Bachelors degree like most officers in modern militaries
Don't know what you're referring to there, it's common (in America) to go into one of the main military academies straight out of high school. The USAF Academy accepts people between 17 and 23 years.
 
Entire organizations don't have flagships. Specific Admirals have flagships. That's the point - a flagship is any vessel on which an Admiral has planted his/her flag.

Military organizations don't have flagships, but civilian organizations which operate ships do have a flagship of their organization. For example, in Canada there is a Flagship of the Canadian Coast Guard, the CCG doesn't even have flag officers.

My biggest peeve is how some fans believe that the Federation is exactly the same as the US military, how structures of crews won't change over 300 years, unification of a world, and then merge of that world into a galaxy-wide multi-species fleet.

Well, like it or not, Starfleet is the US Navy, and has been since TOS. And while some things might change over the next few hundred years with other alien races contributing their military practices, the truth is most of the inaccuracies we see are the result of writers/producers with no/little knowledge of the military writing about things outside their expertise and not explainable as "things change in the future." Since Starfleet is depicted on screen as being so similar to the US military, fans can't be blamed for using that as their baseline for comparison
 
Oh, oh -- I can't recall precisely every series, but how about on TNG when intruders would beam aboard the Bridge and everybody except Worf would stand around and stare at them like a dumbass? Not always, but so often as I recall.
 
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this one already. Some aggressive race takes over the ship (example the Nyrians or the Kazon taking over Voyager) and they suddenly know how to work everything. OK the Kazon had Seska, but still.....

But when the EMH and the EMH2 are trying to run the Prometheus, they are having to sort of guess at what they are doing. Yeah, I get it, that scene was played for laughs.
 
^ And there's TSFS, where Sulu and Chekov with in a few minutes figure out how to operate a Klingon bird of prey at warp speed.

TUC established that Sulu and Chekov (and Uhura) don't speak Klingon, so it stands to reason that none of them could read the language on the displays and controls.
 
Captain Steven Hiller learnt how to fly an alien spaceship by watching one through the window, at least Sulu and Chekov had training on the concepts of astronavigation
 
^ And there's TSFS, where Sulu and Chekov with in a few minutes figure out how to operate a Klingon bird of prey at warp speed.

I work in a mobile phone store, sometimes foreign customers come in with their phones set to different languages asking for help. 9 times out of 10 I can figure my way around the phone and do what they want me to do. Not quite the same situation, but I reckon anyone competent enough with the principles of a piece of technology can work their way around a language barrier. Scotty can operate the transporter too, and Sulu and Chekov have been flying/navigating starships for 20+ years at this point.

TUC established that Sulu and Chekov (and Uhura) don't speak Klingon, so it stands to reason that none of them could read the language on the displays and controls.

Yeah, this one irks me. I know the scene was for laughs, but Uhura was the communications officer on a frontline starship for again 20+ years, she must have intercepted more than a few Klingon transmissions in her time. I know she could have the computer translate them but you'd think she'd have picked up at least a working understanding of Klingon in that time. IMHO that's one thing nuTrek got right, making Uhura fluent in Klingon and Romulan.
 
The use of comms generally is wildly inconsistent in 24th century Trek and required a computer that was very intelligent at realising when people wanted to transmit and not.
Sometimes they tap their combadge or a panel to start talking, other times they just say 'Sisko to Dax' into thin air. Sometimes they tap to answer, sometimes they just say 'Worf here'. Sometimes they 'hang up' by word or gesture, other times they'll just say 'on my way' or similar and somehow that cuts off the transmission.
And it is never clear how private the comms are - the implication from the audio is that the incoming sound is just broadcast for all to hear - which as well as being very bad at handling sensitive or private information would make a busy ship deafening. Imagine how bad mobiles would be if they only had speakerphone mode.

Just think of your latter comment as a training exercise. If it happens only occasionally, it's clearly a method of introducing the crew to the implication of being part of the Borg hive mind. If it's done often enough, maybe one can be inured to reducing the clutter to so much white noise and possibly be able to keep one's wits and individuality intact.:)

There was one scene depicting Tuvok and Kim having what amounted to a private conversation on the bridge. I can't remember the episode but the conversation was along the lines of "Don't do that. It makes people nervous."

The Cloud- Tuvok dresses Kim down for impermissible behavior on the bridge by a senior officer, to wit, proclaiming ignorance about a newly encountered phenomena. Kim returns the favor later in the episode when Tuvok makes a similar statement to Janeway.

What makes the decision stupid was the utter lack of consideration for options that worked for both sides. Even in her damaged state, 24th century technology should have afforded Voyager the ability to arrange for the array's destruction after the ship returned to the Alpha Quadrant. Tuvok even said he could make the damn thing send them back, so use it and leave torpedoes with delay timers to blow it up. That means no series? Fine by me. The resulting series sucked anyway.

But if you're desperate to have a series, take the decision out of the crew's hands. Either make it suffer a catastrophic failure or get moved and hidden by the Caretaker's spouse or some automatic system or whatever.

The failure to sell the "strand yourself" premise comes from a simple fact: it was a situation where stranding themselves wasn't necessary. There is no way to properly sell an action that nobody needs to take. Writers getting paid to write TV shows ought to know that and not base entire shows on the utter foolishness of the main character.

(Unless we're talking Archie Bunker or Homer Simpson, but they ain't Trek.)

If you have contempt for everything on the series and presumably would make it disappear if you had the ability to do so, what relevance should anyone give to criticism you render about the premise of the premiere? Reasonably, a good number of posters here have a great bit more knowledge about Trek in general and Voyager specifically than you do, and yet mysteriously, one doesn't encounter this irrelevant rant that is basically just a tooth fairy's wish. Yes, I think everyone with any kind of knowledge of the show understands the underpinning of what propels the show into its adventure, how it could've been avoided, and why it wasn't. Yet you seem to be among the brave few who wish to inflict an Excedrin headache regarding what seems to universally be accepted, even with reservations by some, as an adequately reasonable prologue to what will ensue. In fact, I think quite a good number of viewers consider it the best of the Trek debuts.

On the other hand, if you were to excise your comments about Caretaker, being reconciled that people perfectly understood your thoughts about it, perhaps we'd only have to look forward to similar screeds about the other 170 episodes. In which case, by all means keep your focus on Caretaker.

By the way, forgive my lack of clarity on this point, but who exactly is the target for your ad hominem attacks, the show runners who wrote the episode or Janeway? Maybe it's me, but that seems to get a bit shaken sometimes in your diatribes.

I work in a mobile phone store, sometimes foreign customers come in with their phones set to different languages asking for help. 9 times out of 10 I can figure my way around the phone and do what they want me to do. Not quite the same situation, but I reckon anyone competent enough with the principles of a piece of technology can work their way around a language barrier. Scotty can operate the transporter too, and Sulu and Chekov have been flying/navigating starships for 20+ years at this point.

Commenting on this recently, I think I can be resolved that control systems that operate on similar principles, won't be too unlikely to have their basic function intuited and the requisite operation configurations be able to be reckoned pretty quickly, regardless of the total unfamiliarity of language prompts. OK, maybe not in 2-5 seconds, but with a reasonable quotient of speed. I have to think that this is what the writers throughout time have posited and as with noise being propagated through space, I don't tend to think about it too much anymore. Now if a ship constructed by an overwhelmingly advanced civilization were in play, that would be a different story. Although a number of those races don't have the need for ships anyway, so...
 
^Indeed. Well put, Drone.

I look at it this way: Starfleet does not half-ass its missions. The transporter has something like 5 or 6 redundant doohickeys to make failure not only unlikely but infinitesimally impossible to scramble by accident. Not one system and one backup - but both times three.

When given a directive to get something done, Starfleet gets it done, especially in terms of things they can control, such as equipments and planning.

They were not going to gamble the fate of a planet on technology, just set a timer and hope, guess, wish that everything went according to plan - with an enemy in arm's reach of their target, at that.

Starfleet got it done. Now, it is easy to call someone being that brave and selfless "stupid", but that just seems to add more heroism to what selflessness such an act actually took - to see through to completion. It was a sacrifice that clearly, not everyone would make.

Not even the Maquis disagreed enough to mutiny or chafe with the actual stranding - after the fact - except for the egocentric Cardassian spy and her sympathizers.

As for the Ocampa? Their fate was no longer in question in Starfleet's mind. A luxury turning tail and running would never afford again - and history would remember Voyager as a ship of doubt and self-service. Such an act of selfishness would undermine everything that gave planets faith the Federation. In the long view, saving one ship and losing the Federation would be a significantly greater folly, than sacrificing one crew that volunteered and were brave enough to know and accept the risks of fleet duty in the first place. So what is the greater foolishness?

If you prefer a more pragmatic and self-serving style of leadership, perhaps you'd be more at home in the Ferengi Alliance. Or the Borg - I understand they put their complete trust in technology all the time about everything.

I'd rather be called a fool than live a fool's fate.
 
I just remembered one of my more unique peeves with Trek and I'd be really interested to know if anyone else has noticed this. It is particularly prevalent in TNG but I seem to recall it happening in almost all of the series.

Let's take the TNG episode 'Imaginary Friend'. Do you remember the scene where Troi is in her quarters and her cup of hot chocolate spills? [Due to the girl/alien]

Well Troi gets up, walks to the other end of her quarters, opens a drawer and picks up a crisp towel and begins to mop up the liquid with it! It drives me nuts! It happens multiple times in TNG episodes where a character spills something in their quarters and uses a towel to clean it up. It's quite bizarre. They couldn't go to the replicator [or in Troi's case, turn to it as she is right next to it when her mug spills] and say "computer, absorbant tissue, one roll" or something? Instead they stain perfectly good towels.

Tell me someone else gets as irked by this as I do. :lol:
 
Especially considering they're self-cleaning carpets.

If not, where's the hoover?
 
I just remembered one of my more unique peeves with Trek and I'd be really interested to know if anyone else has noticed this. It is particularly prevalent in TNG but I seem to recall it happening in almost all of the series.

Let's take the TNG episode 'Imaginary Friend'. Do you remember the scene where Troi is in her quarters and her cup of hot chocolate spills? [Due to the girl/alien]

Well Troi gets up, walks to the other end of her quarters, opens a drawer and picks up a crisp towel and begins to mop up the liquid with it! It drives me nuts! It happens multiple times in TNG episodes where a character spills something in their quarters and uses a towel to clean it up. It's quite bizarre. They couldn't go to the replicator [or in Troi's case, turn to it as she is right next to it when her mug spills] and say "computer, absorbant tissue, one roll" or something? Instead they stain perfectly good towels.

Tell me someone else gets as irked by this as I do. :lol:

Why?

Random Trek Character: Troi: "Oh, damn, ruined a perfectly good towel. Oh well. Computer, replicate another perfectly good towel."
 
Instead they stain perfectly good towels.

Tell me someone else gets as irked by this as I do. :lol:

No, I hadn't thought of that. I assumed like anything else, they probably throw it back onto that replicator shelf for recycle. You're one of those people that will flip if a holiday towel is used aren't you? :D Just remember to buy me those Kleenex disposable hand towels because I don't like to use my pants.


Especially considering they're self-cleaning carpets.

If not, where's the hoover?

I imagined it was some odd teal sweep beam. Visible only to the audience's eyes. but something happens. Chakotay was ready to go janitor for Janeway in our cliff hanger.
 
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