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CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

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SFC3 said:
Probably meant "used." Unless, they were used... then why would they be published?
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This. I said "published," but I just meant used. None of them have been used or submitted, for that matter.
 
oswriter said:
So here's a thought. Given that Axanar Productions is based in California, the donors might have a very strong case under California's Unfair Competition Law (UCL). The California UCL is notoriously broad in scope and is often used by class action plaintiffs because it's easier to prove than fraud. With fraud, you have to prove reliance on a specific false statement or misrepresentation. But under the UCL, according to the California Supreme Court, it is "not required to necessarily plead and prove individualized reliance on specific misrepresentations or false statements"; instead, you can bring a UCL claim if the "misrepresentations and false statements were part of an extensive and long-term advertising campaign."

In other words, the donors could make the case they were misled not by any specific thing Peters or Axanar said, but rather their entire "advertising campaign," including the crowdfunding pitches, Prelude, the Vulcan scene, the podcasts, the social media, et al. Or as Homer Simpson said regarding his mortgage application, "they were all part of a single ball of lies."
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But I still come back to... to what end? By the time that comes around, I expect that Axanar and Peters will already be broke.

Blood from a stone an' all.
 
Ion said:
But I still come back to... to what end? By the time that comes around, I expect that Axanar and Peters will already be broke.

Blood from a stone an' all.
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Fair point. But I'd also point out the UCL is not just for private parties. The California Attorney General or the Los Angeles D.A. can bring a claim. It's not a criminal charge--let me be clear on that--but I could see a prosecutor who might want to use Axanar as a means towards going after Indiegogo or Kickstarter.
 
Now that might be interesting.

After IGG's "pass the buck" response to the complaints, I really wouldn't mind them reaping at least minor consequences that force them to police things with a bit more diligence.
 
oswriter said:
Fair point. But I'd also point out the UCL is not just for private parties. The California Attorney General or the Los Angeles D.A. can bring a claim. It's not a criminal charge--let me be clear on that--but I could see a prosecutor who might want to use Axanar as a means towards going after Indiegogo or Kickstarter.
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I'm actually wondering if Indiegogo or Kickstarter will get dragged into this at some stage, it's arguable they have some culpability, plus they have deeper pockets than Peters/Axanar, and I could see CBS trying to make sure that they are not used to fund future IP infringements.
 
drt said:
I'm actually wondering if Indiegogo or Kickstarter will get dragged into this at some stage, it's arguable they have some culpability, plus they have deeper pockets than Peters/Axanar, and I could see CBS trying to make sure that they are not used to fund future IP infringements.
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As I said before, if I'm the CBS/Paramount lawyers, I'd demand to see all documents related to Axanar's dealings with both websites as a condition of any settlement.
 
oswriter said:
As I said before, if I'm the CBS/Paramount lawyers, I'd demand to see all documents related to Axanar's dealings with both websites as a condition of any settlement.
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Only catch I see with it is the PR angle, and I have no idea if CBS/Paramount even care about that.
 
Life is so unfair! Why do people keep making stuff up???

CAPTAIN'S LOG - Jan. 5th, 2016:

"We posted this photo of the lunch we had the day we got served with the lawsuit to show you all that we were keeping our spirits up. Not celebrating certainly, but we weren’t going to let CBS get us down and we were going to stay strong for YOU, our donors, who were counting on us!"

CAPTAIN'S LOG - Dec 30th, 2015

"So how do you deal with getting served a lawsuit by CBS? Celebrate with Sushi!"

Oh...
 
"Understand that generally, a project only receives about 75% of the total money raised. For the other 25%, 4% goes to Indiegogo, 3.5% goes to payment processing fees, and the rest gets reserved for Perks (the gifts you earn at different donation levels) and shipping them. So when we say we want to raise $1.3 million, we will only get about $1 million of that!"

I thought this was an interesting bit of info on the indiegogo campaign FAQ section.

So, basically, 17.5% of the money they want to raise is going to pay for so-called 'perks'. That comes to $227,500 of the $1.3 million. That seems a mite... excessive?! Or is this typical of crowdfunding campaigns?
 
Noname Given said:
^^^
Given the terms and conditions above (if accurate) - Prelude to Axanar should have been ineligible to win any award. Some festival if it doesn't even follow its own rules. (Plus, if Axanar Productions did submit a release - then they could/should face forgery charges; UNLESS they actually have one; but were that the case, then you'd think they'd publically post it as it would render the part of the CBS lawsuit with regard to Prelude to Axanar moot) - again, just being fair although it certainly appears to be the case the Axanar Productions NEVER had any sort or release from CBS/Paramout RE: Prelude to Axanar.
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I'm curious, I understand that ST:NV/P2 was nominated for the Hugo Award for World Enough and Time? I would imagine that the Hugo awards have a very high standard and the entries are vetted. Did they have special permission from CBS/Paramount?
 
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Regarding the festival win, I'm not sure what exactly an email would do. Prelude was completed long before the suit and much of that crew isn't even involved with Axanar/Ares Stuidos anymore. The festival obviously knew it was based on Star Trek (per the program) so it's pretty much in the festival judge's hands if it was eligible or not. If Prelude gave a 'CBS signed' paper, the festival (unless utterly incompetent) would have known that it wasn't an authorized film. If they want to let in a film based on pre-existing owned works, that's on the festival. It also feels like a slippery slope to completely discount anything Prelude won because of the current suit. The work is still there, no matter who put it together.
 
MatthewD said:
"Understand that generally, a project only receives about 75% of the total money raised. For the other 25%, 4% goes to Indiegogo, 3.5% goes to payment processing fees, and the rest gets reserved for Perks (the gifts you earn at different donation levels) and shipping them. So when we say we want to raise $1.3 million, we will only get about $1 million of that!"

I thought this was an interesting bit of info on the indiegogo campaign FAQ section.

So, basically, 17.5% of the money they want to raise is going to pay for so-called 'perks'. That comes to $227,500 of the $1.3 million. That seems a mite... excessive?! Or is this typical of crowdfunding campaigns?
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Based on my calculations--which in turn are based on the Excel spreadsheet Peters provided in the annual report--Axanar actually spent 21% of its Prelude-related income on perks. That includes the shipping and handling costs.
 
oswriter said:
Based on my calculations--which in turn are based on the Excel spreadsheet Peters provided in the annual report--Axanar actually spent 21% of its Prelude-related income on perks. That includes the shipping and handling costs.
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That's the problem with physical perks, you have to ask to a lot of extra money to repay people for giving you money. So, basically, you are "buying" the perks, not receiving a thank you gift.
 
Maurice said:
That's the problem with physical perks, you have to ask to a lot of extra money to repay people for giving you money. So, basically, you are "buying" the perks, not receiving a thank you gift.
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The most expensive single perk was the Blu-Rays, which Axanar reported at a cost of $4,925. This is followed by the patches at $4,865, then the T-shirts at around $2,900, the soundtrack CDs at $2,000, and finally the posters at just under $1,000.
 
I'd also point out the actual perk costs are higher because Peters hired Diana Kingsbury as a "full-time fulfilment specialist" to handle the shipping. Yet her salary is not reported in the Prelude figures, because according to Peters, "she didn’t start working full-time until after the Axanar Kickstarter concluded," and he decided not to apportion any of her salary to the Prelude expenses because it's "speculative and not a significant number."
 
Here's what Joel Hodgson had to say about the expected cost of fulfillment for the MST3K crowdfunder:

Then we have to cover all of the REWARD AND SHIPPING COSTS to design, produce, print, sort and ship all of the rewards we're offering in exchange for your pledge. (Those t-shirts aren't free, you know!) That costs about 27%, so that's another $540,000.
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