Axanar found 100K to cut from their budget....

[Squiggy]

You know what? I don't think much of that is true other than the observations about Alec's ego. It's pretty clear that most of the resources here were going exactly where they claimed and that they were working really hard toward making the very best movie they could.

This is certainly my experience having visited the studio. It was pretty obvious to me that they were working hard to make the best film they could.

Which is fine, but they crossed the line from fan time to rogue Trek production and flaunted it.

 

[Mudd]

Absolutely. That's the problem, anchored I think in a loss of perspective on the part of the producers.

 

[lurok]

Indeed. But it is a shame to see what is (was?) some good and sincere creative work - Richter's sfx, the actors, some promising set design & construction - go for nought. I remember there were many stating way back that they were curious why they didn't just get on and shoot the damn thing; but I appreciate some folks just do things when they do them

 

[USS Intrepid]

You know what? I don't think much of that is true other than the observations about Alec's ego. It's pretty clear that most of the resources here were going exactly where they claimed and that they were working really hard toward making the very best movie they could.

This is certainly my experience having visited the studio. It was pretty obvious to me that they were working hard to make the best film they could.

Which is fine, but they crossed the line from fan time to rogue Trek production and flaunted it.

Well I can't speak to that. I can only tell you what I saw when I visited the studio; that they were working towards the stated goal.

 

[Squiggy]

This is certainly my experience having visited the studio. It was pretty obvious to me that they were working hard to make the best film they could.

Which is fine, but they crossed the line from fan time to rogue Trek production and flaunted it.

Well I can't speak to that. I can only tell you what I saw when I visited the studio; that they were working towards the stated goal.

You don't need a tour of the studio to see how they were positioning themselves. They pretty much said they weren't a simple fan film - and that's correct.

A good worth ethic is great and all, but it was ultimately for a improper job.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Which is fine, but they crossed the line from fan time to rogue Trek production and flaunted it.

Well I can't speak to that. I can only tell you what I saw when I visited the studio; that they were working towards the stated goal.

You don't need a tour of the studio to see how they were positioning themselves. They pretty much said they weren't a simple fan film - and that's correct.

A good worth ethic is great and all, but it was ultimately for a improper job.

As I said, I can't speak to that. I'm not interested in speculation and I'm not going to badmouth anyone. I was sharing my own impressions based on what I'd seen, nothing else.

 

[Jedman67]

In case anyone is interested, here is a link to the 2015 Annual Report. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxNlBSCQbrC3cERiZk5yTldlOFU/view

 

[137th Gebirg]

Interesting interview with David Gerrold on the subject that I found over at the Starship Modeler forum. Might be a glimmer of hope for everyone here...

http://www.axanarproductions.com/david-gerrold-on-cbs-vs-axanar-part-1/

Star Trek Legend David Gerrold chimes in on the CBS lawsuit vs. Axanar.

So let me talk about the lawsuit against Axanar, by CBS and Paramount.

I will qualify my remarks by saying I have no dog in this particular fight, I am only a knowledgeable observer.

I’ve known several people in the Paramount legal department, most of whom were honorable. I also have known several fan film productions, most of whom were not only honorable but enthusiastic about Star Trek in a way that should embarrass some of the people who were paid to produce actual episodes of the series.

That said, I think the lawsuit was filed without sufficient consideration of the situation.

Fans have been making Star Trek fan films — and crowdfunding them — for fifteen years. There’s Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegads, Star Trek Continues, and probably a few others I’m unaware of. These are all recreations of the original series, with fan actors playing Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al. These are all filmed on recreations of the original series bridge and corridors and other sets. They are filmed with replicas of props, costumes, makeup, and set design. They are such accurate recreations of the original series that bootleggers overseas have sold copies of the episodes as if they are the real thing.

All of the fan film productions operate under the same general guideline — have fun, but you’re not allowed to make a profit. So all of the fan film productions are freely available on YouTube.

Part of the reason so many professionals, like myself, have participated in fan productions is the desire to make and see more Star Trek. Those who were too young (or not born yet) to participate in the original series, have come to the fan productions as an opportunity to be a part of the magic.

All of this has to be seen as a measure of the kind of enthusiasm that Star Trek fans have and that should be available to any new Star Trek movie or TV series.

Now, Axanar — Axanar is not a recreation of the original series. It’s about a battle referred to in passing, in only one episode of the original series. It’s about a minor character in one episode and how he became a Starfleet legend. It does not take place on the Enterprise. It does not use any of the characters of the original series. Its closest relationship to the original series is that it takes place in the same universe, many years before Kirk and Spock.

Now … I am not a lawyer and I have not been approached by either side to function as either a consultant or an expert witness (although, if this ever goes to trial, I expect I will be called in) — but, if Axanar represents an infringement on the copyrights of Paramount and CBS, then so does Star Trek New Voyages, Star Trek Farragut, Star Trek Renegades, and Star Trek Continues. And whoever else.

Based on the number of views that all these separate iterations have earned worldwide — possibly more than a hundred million — Paramount and CBS could file for damages of a billion dollars.

And the resulting fannish firestorm would go on for years.

As I have heard the story, the first New Voyages episode was a private adventure, never intended for internet distribution. But one of the participants did upload it to YouTube — and shortly thereafter, James Cawley received a call from Paramount legal, the gist of which was: “Have fun, but don’t sell tickets, don’t sell copies, don’t make a profit.”

Now, that was smart, it recognized fannish enthusiasm — but at the same time, it planted the seeds for today’s situation, because it created a de facto license for all Star Trek fan films.

Which brings us to the lawsuit against Axanar. The lawyers have to prove two things:

1) That this fan film represents a significant usage of Paramount/CBS’s property.

and

2) Axanar is a profit-making enterprise. (Ohell, it isn’t even THE Enterprise.)

Both will be hard to prove, especially the latter, because of all the fan films, Axanar has been the most transparent with its fund-raising and its accounting.

There is a third point that would likely be made in such a court case:

If Axanar represents a threat to the copyright, why haven’t Paramount and CBS taken steps to shut down New Voyages, Farragut, Renegades, and Continues? What makes Axanar different? What makes Axanar a threat?

Paramount/CBS’s response would likely be that Axanar represents a professional level of production. Well, yes — but so does New Voyages. (I can’t speak for any of the others on that, although I do know that many professionals have been involved with Continues and Renegades.)

There is a way out of this mess — and if people on all sides of this are smart — it could be resolved in a matter of days.

Lucasfilm is the model. They created an award for fan films and even arranged licensing and distribution.

Paramount/CBS should do the same. There are people at CBS who would love to put out a DVD or Blu-ray distribution of Star Trek fan films, but have so far been unable to get approval for the idea. But it’s a good idea. An official distribution of fan films would generate money for both the copyright owners and for the filmmakers to use in future efforts. The fan-films would be officially licensed as fan productions.

To make this work, the studio would have to hire a qualified liaison to work with various fan films to make sure that they follow appropriate guidelines and in return would receive the blessings of legal distribution and protection.

By keeping the fan films in a specific licensed venue, a kind of voluntary garden, Paramount and CBS would benefit from the good publicity of being seen to promote and foster great fan efforts — the fans would benefit from having a specific legal venue for their individual productions.

Yes, there would be a lot of paperwork to be settled — and I expect the cooperation of various Guilds might be necessary as well — but the goal here is to produce a win-win situation for everyone, but especially for the fans.

Because if it weren’t for the fans and their loyalty for the past 49 years, there wouldn’t have been a franchise in the first place.

Feel free to share.

David Gerrold

 

[BillJ]

Interesting interview with David Gerrold on the subject that I found over at the Starship Modeler forum. Might be a glimmer of hope for everyone here...

I don't think so. I think most fan film makers would chaff under regulations for making fan films. Heck, there seemed to be only one iron-clad rule (don't do it for profit) and Axanar completely ignored it to the point they were selling coffee and model kits.

Seems to me that most fan films have chugged along fine without any real restrictions until Axanar came along.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yeah, sadly, I think you're right.

I'm not normally one who believes that something unpleasant could just go away simply by wishing for it.

In this case, however, I do kind of hope that's exactly what happens, and I'm pretty sure that's exactly what won't.

 

[Zaminhon]

Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if the conflict between Peters and Mignogna was due to Peters being schooled by Vic and being shown the "writing on the wall". As we've seen, Peters doesn't take kindly to criticism. If all fan productions are affected by this, it won't be only Vic who'll be dumping on Peters. All film makers have heavily invested their time and energy into their productions and unfortunately it takes just one to bring it all down. Almost every fan production is more or less operating in a legally gray area with a handshake rather than legally signed contracts.

 

[Karzak]

Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if the conflict between Peters and Mignogna was due to Peters being schooled by Vic and being shown the "writing on the wall". As we've seen, Peters doesn't take kindly to criticism. If all fan productions are affected by this, it won't be only Vic who'll be dumping on Peters. All film makers have heavily invested their time and energy into their productions and unfortunately it takes just one to bring it all down.

This thought occurred to me as well. And while Mignogna has had the foresight to not let the disagreement perpetuate from his side (at least online), Peters misses no opportunity to get ahead of that narrative and shit on Continues and Migogna every chance he gets.

Interestingly, and perhaps wisely, Mignogna and the Continues camp have remained entirely silent on these latest proceedings.

 

[137th Gebirg]

At this juncture it's most definitely a wise move. Any such production, regardless of the scope, should make like a hole in the water and do their utmost to not be noticed by anyone while this plays out.

 

[USS Intrepid]

All film makers have heavily invested their time and energy into their productions and unfortunately it takes just one to bring it all down. Almost every fan production is more or less operating in a legally gray area with a handshake rather than legally signed contracts.

No, it's actually quite black and white. We're all violating the studio's copyrights, trademarks, whatever. They've just been nice enough to let us do so.

 

[Mudd]

All film makers have heavily invested their time and energy into their productions and unfortunately it takes just one to bring it all down. Almost every fan production is more or less operating in a legally gray area with a handshake rather than legally signed contracts.

No, it's actually quite black and white. We're all violating the studio's copyrights, trademarks, whatever. They've just been nice enough to let us do so.

Exactly.

I keep reading people online talking knowledgably about "unofficial CBS guidelines" that - if you just color inside the lines - pretty much assure that the studio will leave you alone. I don't know anyone who's organized a Trek fan film who doesn't understand that there are any such assurances at all.

 

[Zaminhon]

Yeah I agree with the black and white nature of the legality, I was just trying to be optimistic.

 

[Corran Horn]

On the other thread there's a link to a blog where Gerrold's 'prove two things' point is rendered bunk by someone knowledgeable of the law.

(or, more accurately, someone referencing someone who is)

 

[fireproof78]

On the other thread there's a link to a blog where Gerrold's 'prove two things' point is rendered bunk by someone knowledgeable of the law.

(or, more accurately, someone referencing someone who is)

I wonder (as other have) what Gerrold's response would be if I were to take my copy of Star Wolf, create a fan film based upon referenced characters and make it all whiz-bang official looking and stuff.

I really, really wonder that...

 

[Maurice]

I wonder (as other have) what Gerrold's response would be if I were to take my copy of Star Wolf, create a fan film based upon referenced characters and make it all whiz-bang official looking and stuff.

I really, really wonder that...

I'd bet we'd hear someone singing a different tune. I believe a ditty called "Hypocrisy".

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I wonder (as other have) what Gerrold's response would be if I were to take my copy of Star Wolf, create a fan film based upon referenced characters and make it all whiz-bang official looking and stuff.

I really, really wonder that...

I'd bet we'd hear someone singing a different tune. I believe a ditty called "Hypocrisy".

It's OK, guys, because according to Gerrold, all we have to do is file the serial numbers off.