MontalKhan, brownfaced?

[Terok Nor]

All good points - particularly about there being different time travel methods. Ironically the episode I mentioned, "Parallels", goes the extra step of explaining the difference. I thought that was a one off instance of that particular universe bending method but it seems not according Star Trek 2009. I'm fine with that as an explanation.

I would also agree it's only hard core Trekkies like me who would take any notice of the nitpicky time travel stuff. I don't think they needed to change anything for my sake as they were trying to appeal to a wider fanbase than just die hard Trekkies.

I do think, however, it's a shame to go over old ground by doing Khan again. I expected the Abrams universe to go in a different direction. That said, I also think it's a shame Star Trek had fallen so badly there was a need to recast the original cast since the latter spin offs didn't catch the public's imagination as much as The Next Generation. I always had this idea in my mind of Trek continuing with new crews for decades to come. In a way it's a step backwards to go back to Kirk and crew but that's just my opinion.

 

[Trekkin]

Funny enough, I liked that they brought back Khan because he got to go in some different directions than what we originally saw. That's also why (depending on how it's handled) I'd be happy to see him come back. Not necessarily in Beyond or ethe possible ST4, but one far-off day if the series runs that long.

Different strokes.

 

[Kor]

There's no evidence Khan was ever told the actual date during "Space Seed". Thus his "canonical" statement that it's been "exactly" two hundred years is suspect from the word go. He did indeed say "Two hundred years ago" but even if he believed it had been exactly that long, there's no guarantee he knows what he's talking about. All he had to go on was something Kirk himself called an estimation.

How superior Khan's intellect is irrelevant before his likely obscene lack of information about the actual date.

I was kidding.

3) Khan's blood heals people. But that may always have been true, despite Kelley's McCoy failing to discover this. Or then Khan, now with privileged access to the highest secret technologies of the 23rd century, did that to himself after having been turned into John Harriman.

Oh dear lord, no! Having Farris Bueler's friend as a starship captain in one movie was already one too many times! And being turned into such a doofus would be absolute torture for a super genius like Khan.



Kor

 

[Timo]

You mean you wouldn't run to the nearest genetic manipulation lab after becoming John Harriman? Or that you would?

Must be subconscious echoes of seeing references to Magnus, Erin and Annika Henderson in that "Dark Frontier" thread...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[fireproof78]

Funny enough, I liked that they brought back Khan because he got to go in some different directions than what we originally saw. That's also why (depending on how it's handled) I'd be happy to see him come back. Not necessarily in Beyond or ethe possible ST4, but one far-off day if the series runs that long.

Different strokes.

I think that was part of the point, the idea that Khan was out there, and how the story of "Space Seed" could have gone differently.

Was it necessary? No, I don't think so. I think it betrayed an obsession over TWOK that Star Trek has not been able to shake, but that's me. I enjoy the film regardless of my nitpicks.

Secondly, I'll not understand the complaint that Abrams did something "wrong" in terms of continuity. The writers cited "Parallels" as their point of reference, and Red Matter was the macguffin that let them get there. It was a new method that left the Prime continuity intact and allowed Abrams to explore it. It is an alternate universe, where events unfolded very similarly to Prime save for Nero's incursion. Then, things went different.

Finally, Khan is a megalomaniac dictator. Do you think he cares about base concepts, such as dates?

 

[Trekkin]

If Khan had his way, the calendar would have been reset on the day of his birth.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

A thought about Carol Marcus...
Prime timeline: Spent more time with her dad.
AU: Spent more time with her mom.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I've noticed some people seem to be under the impression the entire Abrams universe is a complete and total reboot of the timeline. I think that's where some of the misunderstandings about Khan and other things happen.

That's never a problem for fans who disregard NuTrek, and just consider the Khan continuity from TOS - TOS-movies.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've noticed some people seem to be under the impression the entire Abrams universe is a complete and total reboot of the timeline. I think that's where some of the misunderstandings about Khan and other things happen.

That's never a problem for fans who disregard NuTrek, and just consider the Khan continuity from TOS - TOS-movies.

Nah, TWOK is set in a different universe. It's the only way to explain Kirk's hair and Khan's Hitler Youth followers.

 

[BillJ]

I've noticed some people seem to be under the impression the entire Abrams universe is a complete and total reboot of the timeline. I think that's where some of the misunderstandings about Khan and other things happen.

That's never a problem for fans who disregard NuTrek, and just consider the Khan continuity from TOS - TOS-movies.

Nah, TWOK is set in a different universe. It's the only way to explain Kirk's hair and Khan's Hitler Youth followers.

This. They didn't even attempt to match up the followers' in TWOK with the ones from "Space Seed".

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Nah, TWOK is set in a different universe. It's the only way to explain Kirk's hair and Khan's Hitler Youth followers.

That criticism never holds much weight.

One: Khan's TWOK followers all have different appearances, and are not a ship full of, say, antagonist "Johnny" from The Karate Kid.

Two: in "Space Seed," Scotty describes the Botany Bay's crew as being:

SCOTT: There's no change, and they're mixed types. Western, mid-European, Latin, Oriental.

So, as originally presented, the BB crew were not all one ethnicity or another, according to Scott. In other words, the on-screen revived cast (apart from Ricardo himself) are not all suggested to be exactly like Khan, supporting Scotty's description--and TWOK.

Three: according to TWOK, only 20 of Khan's followers survived; since the "Space Seed" casting featured actors of various ethnic appearances, one should not expect any sort of appearance in the moments before TWOK's 20 survivors appeared. Finally, all survivors--Khan included--ended up with bleached hair--probably due to the severe environmental changes following the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI, so again, the "Hitler youth" line stretches an alleged error to the point of snapping.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nah, TWOK is set in a different universe. It's the only way to explain Kirk's hair and Khan's Hitler Youth followers.

That criticism never holds much weight.

One: Khan's TWOK followers all have different appearances, and are not a ship full of, say, antagonist "Johnny" from The Karate Kid.

Two: in "Space Seed," Scotty describes the Botany Bay's crew as being:

SCOTT: There's no change, and they're mixed types. Western, mid-European, Latin, Oriental.

So, as originally presented, the BB crew were not all one ethnicity or another, according to Scott. In other words, the on-screen revived cast (apart from Ricardo himself) are not all suggested to be exactly like Khan, supporting Scotty's description--and TWOK.

Three: according to TWOK, only 20 of Khan's followers survived; since the "Space Seed" casting featured actors of various ethnic appearances, one should not expect any sort of appearance in the moments before TWOK's 20 survivors appeared. Finally, all survivors--Khan included--ended up with bleached hair--probably due to the severe environmental changes following the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI, so again, the "Hitler youth" line stretches an alleged error to the point of snapping.

It's a joke.

 

[Mudd]

Cumberbatch looks no more or less like Montalban than Pine looks like Shatner or Pegg like Doohan - none of them would be mistaken for the other, by anyone.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Nah, TWOK is set in a different universe. It's the only way to explain Kirk's hair and Khan's Hitler Youth followers.

That criticism never holds much weight.

One: Khan's TWOK followers all have different appearances, and are not a ship full of, say, antagonist "Johnny" from The Karate Kid.

Two: in "Space Seed," Scotty describes the Botany Bay's crew as being:

SCOTT: There's no change, and they're mixed types. Western, mid-European, Latin, Oriental.

So, as originally presented, the BB crew were not all one ethnicity or another, according to Scott. In other words, the on-screen revived cast (apart from Ricardo himself) are not all suggested to be exactly like Khan, supporting Scotty's description--and TWOK.

Three: according to TWOK, only 20 of Khan's followers survived; since the "Space Seed" casting featured actors of various ethnic appearances, one should not expect any sort of appearance in the moments before TWOK's 20 survivors appeared. Finally, all survivors--Khan included--ended up with bleached hair--probably due to the severe environmental changes following the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI, so again, the "Hitler youth" line stretches an alleged error to the point of snapping.

It's a joke.

I responded because it is an oft-used criticism against TWOK (see the movie forum).

 

[Nerys Myk]

That criticism never holds much weight.

One: Khan's TWOK followers all have different appearances, and are not a ship full of, say, antagonist "Johnny" from The Karate Kid.

Two: in "Space Seed," Scotty describes the Botany Bay's crew as being:

So, as originally presented, the BB crew were not all one ethnicity or another, according to Scott. In other words, the on-screen revived cast (apart from Ricardo himself) are not all suggested to be exactly like Khan, supporting Scotty's description--and TWOK.

Three: according to TWOK, only 20 of Khan's followers survived; since the "Space Seed" casting featured actors of various ethnic appearances, one should not expect any sort of appearance in the moments before TWOK's 20 survivors appeared. Finally, all survivors--Khan included--ended up with bleached hair--probably due to the severe environmental changes following the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI, so again, the "Hitler youth" line stretches an alleged error to the point of snapping.

It's a joke.

I responded because it is an oft-used criticism against TWOK (see the movie forum).

I like TWOK.

 

[Trekkin]

I've noticed some people seem to be under the impression the entire Abrams universe is a complete and total reboot of the timeline. I think that's where some of the misunderstandings about Khan and other things happen.

That's never a problem for fans who disregard NuTrek, and just consider the Khan continuity from TOS - TOS-movies.

Well yeah, but that doesn't exactly contribute much when we're talking about the official continuity/canon/hodgpodge-of-both. If we're not talking about head-canon, you do have to include the whole franchise when the (evolved) topic is the character changes across all of his appearance.

Otherwise you could (hypothetically) have Christopher and others who don't like or ignore TWOK going 'What is this second Montalban appearance of which you speak? There's no change to consider here...' and the discussion would go no-where fast.

Of course, keeping in mind this is a discussion for fun and that none of the in-universe justifications are the 'real' reason. The 'real' reason for Montalban's change are only known to Meyer now, and the Abrams group have explained their decisions over and over and over.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

A thought about Carol Marcus...
Prime timeline: Spent more time with her dad.
AU: Spent more time with her mom.

IIRC, nuCarol does talk about being raised by her dad, and wondering what made the man who taught her everything she knew turn into a psycho admiral...

 

[fireproof78]

A thought about Carol Marcus...
Prime timeline: Spent more time with her dad.
AU: Spent more time with her mom.

IIRC, nuCarol does talk about being raised by her dad, and wondering what made the man who taught her everything she knew turn into a psycho admiral...

Yeah, I would imagine the other way around as well. It struck me that this Admiral Marcus was for more hands on in the R&D department, and stayed in London rather than San Francisco.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

A thought about Carol Marcus...
Prime timeline: Spent more time with her dad.
AU: Spent more time with her mom.

IIRC, nuCarol does talk about being raised by her dad, and wondering what made the man who taught her everything she knew turn into a psycho admiral...

Yeah, I would imagine the other way around as well. It struck me that this Admiral Marcus was for more hands on in the R&D department, and stayed in London rather than San Francisco.

But when she was younger, he wouldn't have been able to have her with him a lot. While he's at the office, she's with her mom.

 

[Green Shirt]

IIRC, nuCarol does talk about being raised by her dad, and wondering what made the man who taught her everything she knew turn into a psycho admiral...

Dad was a psycho at work. At home he was OK.

In the movie, she had the misfortune of running into him at work.