Burton/Keaton Batman movie

[martok2112]

What I enjoyed about the DK trilogy is that each movie felt more like an action drama than some over the top comic book hero flick.

I loved Burton's Batman films. They did have the comic book hero feel. And Keaton did a great job of portraying both the (for appearances) eccentric, occasionally off kilter Bruce Wayne, and the intimidating (but still with a wry sense of humor) Batman. I don't think I can say much about Nicholson's Joker that hasn't already been said.

But I love that Batman in the DK trilogy is a bit more like Jack Bauer in 24, but with better toys. The police seem a bit more realistically portrayed and are a bit more of a potent and capable force (especially under Commissioner Jim Gordon) than the Keystone cops from previous Batman flicks.

And Gordon is far more capable in the DK trilogy than he ever was in any Batman flick or show prior (except maybe the animated series).

I like that the DK trilogy sometimes portrays certain things as a team effort, as opposed to just one man being capable of solving all of Gotham's problems.

And Heath Ledger's Joker had his funny moments, but was definitely a very intimidating presence. His funniest moment was outside the hospital and the bombs. To me, that was classic Joker as I would think of Joker. Nicholson got more of the laughs, but Ledger was (for lack of a better phrase) a bit more frightening.

I like watching sci-fi shows that make me forget I'm watching a sci-fi show (the recent Battlestar Galactica series). I like comic book hero movies that make me forget I'm watching a comic book hero movie. (DK trilogy, Man of Steel)

 

[Commander Richard]

The dialogue is pretty unsophisticated by today's standards. This isn't a movie that would pass muster if it came out now.

What you call "unsophisticated" I call "infinitely quotable".

That's the big difference between movies then and now that I'm missing a lot. How easily my friends and I can quote them and how memorable the dialogue is.
Nolan gave us the clunky "He's the hero Gotham or something or whatever" and "why do we fall so we can get back up" nonsense, while my friends and I will enter a room constantly and shout "Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds!" among MANY others.

It may not be realistic, but the dialogue is just fun. Which, on average, tends not to be these days it seems.

For me, certain lines stand out on re-watch but I can't say that I find anything quotable.

And Keaton did a great job of portraying both the (for appearances) eccentric, occasionally off kilter Bruce Wayne.

I always got the impression that he really is like that and a brief search supports that.

"What makes it doubly interesting is that he's kind of psychotic. At first, I wasn't willing to take it that far, but Tim was more than willing to take it that far. I read the script thinking, 'This guy's really angry and depressed and dark.'" - Michael Keaton

"Batman's the real identity. Bruce Wayne is the secret identity, Bruce Wayne is who he is but it's just a shell. Bruce Wayne is just passing time until Batman can take over and Batman can be who he is. The wonderful aspect of Michael Keaton's portrayal is that you felt almost sad for him, the fact that he looked so uncomfortable in his own skin, in his own house, talking to people who were suppose to be his best friends. You wonder where does he fit in in the world, thus when you see him sitting in the batcave in front of the console you realize this is where he belongs, this is where he should be." - Dan Didio, Head Editor of DC Comics

"This guy wants to remain as hidden as possible, and in the shadows as possible, and unrevealing about himself as possible (…) There's a loneliness to that character and witheldness. He’s a character that is sad and is private." - Tim Burton

What I enjoyed about the DK trilogy is that each movie felt more like an action drama than some over the top comic book hero flick. (...) I like watching sci-fi shows that make me forget I'm watching a sci-fi show (the recent Battlestar Galactica series). I like comic book hero movies that make me forget I'm watching a comic book hero movie. (DK trilogy, Man of Steel)

Yeah, I'm a big fan of naturalistic sci fi & superhero movies because I'm curious about what a grounded approach to certain properties would look like; so I appreciate the Nolan movies for giving us a taste of Batman like that.

 

[Commander Richard]

^ I can't edit my post, so here's the source for the above quotes. Link

 

[Timby]

The problem for me with TDK is that it feels too serious and grounded to be a superhero film. You're getting all invested in the story and then the guy in the not-rubber suit with the ridiculous voice shows up and takes you out of the film.

Yeah the big problem for me is Nolan explained so much, and removed so much of the magic and mystery behind the character, that it just never really felt like I was watching an iconic superhero in action-- but more just a troubled rich guy running around in some military special ops gear.

That's kind of the great thing about the Nolan movies, in that they deconstruct Batman from being an iconic superhero into a rich kid's violent power fantasy that ultimately makes things worse, not better.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of naturalistic sci fi & superhero movies because I'm curious about what a grounded approach to certain properties would look like; so I appreciate the Nolan movies for giving us a taste of Batman like that.

Depends on the property to some degree. I can't imagine a naturalistic, "grounded" version of THOR or DOCTOR STRANGE that would appeal to me. You want to go full fantasy on those or why bother?

(I'm really hoping for some cool, psychedelic, Ditko-esque alternate realities in DOCTOR STRANGE.)

DAREDEVIL or WILDCAT are a different story. They naturally lend themselves to gritty and realistic.

 

[Commander Richard]

^ Despite Marvel movies' humor and lighter tone, they do have a 'real world' feel, so the Thor movies don't come off as full-on fantasy to me. When Jane tried to describe the Soul Forge as a quantum device, I thought that was a nice touch, a way to ground things just a bit.

 

[Amaris]

...

And Heath Ledger's Joker had his funny moments, but was definitely a very intimidating presence. His funniest moment was outside the hospital and the bombs. To me, that was classic Joker as I would think of Joker. Nicholson got more of the laughs, but Ledger was (for lack of a better phrase) a bit more frightening.

...

This. SO much this. I enjoyed Jack Nicholson as the Joker. He hammed it up on screen, which is what he does so well. Heath Ledger's Joker, on the other hand, made me genuinely uncomfortable. He could switch from seemingly sane and reasonable to just batshit (no pun intended) crazy in the blink of an eye. Moreso, his presence was one of an uneasy calm, where he would do awful things while treating it as if it were nothing more than a stroll in the park.

It's such a shame Heath died after making the film, because he deserved an Oscar for that performance, and I would have liked him to have realized just how effective he was as the Joker, and that his hard work was appreciated.

 

[Greg Cox]

^ Despite Marvel movies' humor and lighter tone, they do have a 'real world' feel, so the Thor movies don't come off as full-on fantasy to me. When Jane tried to describe the Soul Forge as a quantum device, I thought that was a nice touch, a way to ground things just a bit.

I suppose, but if you try too hard to keep things "grounded" you run the risk of losing the larger-than-life fantasy elements that made comics so fun in the first place.

One of the things I love about the new FLASH tv show is that it's not afraid to embrace the more outrageous aspects of the original comics--including a telepathic super-gorilla!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

...

And Heath Ledger's Joker had his funny moments, but was definitely a very intimidating presence. His funniest moment was outside the hospital and the bombs. To me, that was classic Joker as I would think of Joker. Nicholson got more of the laughs, but Ledger was (for lack of a better phrase) a bit more frightening.

...

This. SO much this. I enjoyed Jack Nicholson as the Joker. He hammed it up on screen, which is what he does so well. Heath Ledger's Joker, on the other hand, made me genuinely uncomfortable. He could switch from seemingly sane and reasonable to just batshit (no pun intended) crazy in the blink of an eye. Moreso, his presence was one of an uneasy calm, where he would do awful things while treating it as if it were nothing more than a stroll in the park.

Maybe because I can remember how it played to me seeing it as a teen but I get that feeling from Jack as well. Perhaps he isn't quite so "stabby" but he was creepy dangerous and had a sadistic streak and mean humor. He delighted in the misery of others as opposed to being pure anarchy.

 

[Commander Richard]

^ Despite Marvel movies' humor and lighter tone, they do have a 'real world' feel, so the Thor movies don't come off as full-on fantasy to me. When Jane tried to describe the Soul Forge as a quantum device, I thought that was a nice touch, a way to ground things just a bit.

I suppose, but if you try too hard to keep things "grounded" you run the risk of losing the larger-than-life fantasy elements that made comics so fun in the first place.

I don't mind when they do that sometimes. Naturalism comes with its own kind of fun and enjoyment.

One of the things I love about the new FLASH tv show is that it's not afraid to embrace the more outrageous aspects of the original comics--including a telepathic super-gorilla!

I like that too. I've never been a fan of leaving out the fantastical elements when it comes to the grounded approach. I'd rather see how they take on the challenge of including or re-interpreting them.

 

[eyeresist]

Heath Ledger's Joker, on the other hand, made me genuinely uncomfortable. He could switch from seemingly sane and reasonable to just batshit (no pun intended) crazy in the blink of an eye. Moreso, his presence was one of an uneasy calm, where he would do awful things while treating it as if it were nothing more than a stroll in the park.

Maybe because I can remember how it played to me seeing it as a teen but I get that feeling from Jack as well. Perhaps he isn't quite so "stabby" but he was creepy dangerous and had a sadistic streak and mean humor. He delighted in the misery of others as opposed to being pure anarchy.

Yes, I think Nicholson's Joker is second to no-one as far as creepy and dangerous goes.
"Beautifying" his girlfriend's face with acid, barging into Vicki's apartment with a bunch of dead flowers and shooting her boyfriend, shooting his own goon (with the goon's gun) because he feels annoyed, grinning cheesily while Batman beats the shit out of him.
Oh, and mocking a charred corpse, of course.

Yes, I think the TV show nearly ruined the character and did poison the atmosphere for "serious" movies and shows about comic book superheros for years to come.

The TV show was not inconsistent with the de-fanged Batman comics of the 1950s and early 60s. Ace the Bat-hound and Bat-mite, anyone? And the show was influential because it was good, even if it did fail the grimdark test.

 

[Ovation]

The Adam West Batman is one I can watch with my 8 year old. The Michael Keaton Batman is one I can watch with my (future) 12 year old. The Christian Bale Batman is one I can watch with my (future) 15 year old. I like each one on its own terms and am happy I'll be able to re-visit each one with my kid as time goes by. (Same goes with Reeve, Routh and Cavill Superman, roughly).

 

[martok2112]

The Adam West Batman is one I can watch with my 8 year old. The Michael Keaton Batman is one I can watch with my (future) 12 year old. The Christian Bale Batman is one I can watch with my (future) 15 year old. I like each one on its own terms and am happy I'll be able to re-visit each one with my kid as time goes by. (Same goes with Reeve, Routh and Cavill Superman, roughly).

That's a respectable way to look at the movie/show lineage.... for lack of a better way to describe the show(s)/movies.

 

[Ithekro]

Why is it that when I read the title of this thread I keep thinking its Buster Keaton Batman movies?

And then think of how awesome that might have been.

 

[martok2112]

Why is it that when I read the title of this thread I keep thinking its Buster Keaton Batman movies?

And then think of how awesome that might have been.

Amigo, just like Star Trek, there are many different aspects of Batman that appeal to many different folk/fans. Take what you will, and be happy with it. That's how I see Batman vs Star Wars vs Star Trek vs (insert favorite sci-fi/fantasy realm of your choice)

 

[Warped9]

I soo want to see a retro Batman film. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5tJGfZsgc

It could be wild.

 

[Ovation]

I would love a retro Batman, a retro Superman and a retro Bond. Sadly, none of these are likely to happen.

 

[Commander Richard]

The Adam West Batman is one I can watch with my 8 year old. The Michael Keaton Batman is one I can watch with my (future) 12 year old. The Christian Bale Batman is one I can watch with my (future) 15 year old. I like each one on its own terms and am happy I'll be able to re-visit each one with my kid as time goes by.

There's also the 1940s serials.

I soo want to see a retro Batman film.

I was thinking about that the other day. It would be nice to see Batman or Superman done as a period piece. Problem is, there might be some difficulty in doing a Marvel-style expanded universe because some characters are too modern.

 

[Timby]

I soo want to see a retro Batman film. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5tJGfZsgc

It could be wild.

There are some elements of this that are directly quoted in the Batman: The Animated Series intro. (The bank robbery, in particular.)

 

[Samurai8472]

I really like the Nolan trilogy as a whole, but some measure of atmosphere was lost after the first film. The Gotham in BB didn't feel like a backlot (as it does in the Burton films) and had nice mix of real world and elsewhere to it. TDK and TDKR lost that in varying degree.

I recently got "batman returns" on Blu-ray

It kind of feels like they ran out of budget and just had the gotham square set to work with.

Also as an 7 year old you don't pick up on the things Penguin says

Now? They made him a grotesque pervert. WTH?