Burton/Keaton Batman movie

[eyeresist]

Certainly, Elfman's score has never been beaten. Wouldn't it be great if they brought him back to score some of the new DC movies? He certainly would suit the dark tone they've been going for, and could give us something that otherwise seems to have gone extinct - a memorable superhero theme-tune.

 

[theenglish]

Certainly, Elfman's score has never been beaten. Wouldn't it be great if they brought him back to score some of the new DC movies? He certainly would suit the dark tone they've been going for, and could give us something that otherwise seems to have gone extinct - a memorable superhero theme-tune.

I remember I was dating a music major back when this movie came out. Her friends would debate whether Elfman could be considered a true music composer. I would pull out my bootlegged Oingo Boingo cassettes.

 

[eyeresist]

Certainly, Elfman's score has never been beaten. ...

I remember I was dating a music major back when this movie came out. Her friends would debate whether Elfman could be considered a true music composer.

What, like Philip Glass?

 

[wulfio]

I'd want Elfman to do a Dr. Fate or Justice League Dark score.

 

[kirk55555]

I thought Pfeiffer sucked as Catwoman, but that was mostly the writing, to be fair. Catwoman as an undead catlady was stupid, in both Batman returns and Catwoman. But, at least Hallie Berry wasn't super depressed the entire time. The Dark Knight Rises was closer to a good "Catwoman", but mediocre writing and frankly subpar casting left TDKR's Catwoman fairly boring. Adam West's Catwomen weren't amazing either, but they worked with the general tone of the era.

For a more "serious" Catwoman, the only good, somewhat serious, non-comic Catwoman is the Batman: TAS version. I think they played up the "animal crusader" gimmick a bit too much for her, and then Batman Returns kind of helped mess her by inspiring the idiotic redesign in The New Batman Adventures, but that version was the closest to being a great Catwoman to me. She was very good, but just slightly below great.

Also, talking more about Burton and Batman, I was just thinking that I would have liked to see his version of Mr. Freeze. He could probably have done the tragic backstory very well, and we'd have gotten a lot less ice puns then the Schumacher version

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I think the best way to describe them is that they aren't great Batman films, but they are both great films. Returns is full Burton and I love it.

I liked Batman Returns a lot more than Batman. However, that is clearly a Tim Burton movie that just happened to have a few Batman characters in it.

Definitely! Never cared for Returns until I started to think of it as a Burton movie moreso than a Batman movie.

Watched 89 last night and it's still quite enjoyable. I really like the sequence with the balloons and the batplane, just a nifty cinematic set piece.

I like Nicholson's Joker and the way they show his warped world view. He's not just psycho but has an (anti)artistic sensibility to boot. Batman isn't just a personal adversary but an ideological rival who rubs his rhubarb.

Being the first it also gets to introduce the gadgets and it does a good job making them cool and kind of mysterious. Jacks face is great as he tries to figure out the different rappelling functions and stuff ("Where does he get those toys?"). The Batmobile with its shields and various gadgets always feels a bit remote. Unlike Bond, you just get a glimpse at its workings.

 

[eyeresist]

"Where does he get those toys?"

That's where the reel change was. I saw this movie in the cinema a number of times (I was a lazy student who had figured out how to sneak into movies for free), and more often than not the beginning of the line was cut off. "Get those wonderful toys" - not such a classic line!

 

[Commander Richard]

That Michael Keaton's career basically flatlined in the mid-'90s is a shame.

Some people say that roles dried up because he walked away from a third Batman movie and others say that he was never a huge megastar to begin with and simply went back to his regular level of success. I keep thinking that if he had accepted the role of Jack on Lost, that would have revived his career, at least for the time he was doing the show. I was also thinking the other day that he's the kind of actor who could play both Batman and the Joker really well.

Anyway, I saw Batman Forever last night. They wanted to lighten things up without going as far as the Adam West series but I was surprised at how much it felt like that show.

 

[Richard Baker]

In the novel the line "Where does he get those toys?" is followed by a furious "Well- GO ASK HIM" to his henchmen thus starting the big pursuit. I always wished they had kept the second bit in the film...

 

[davejames]

(And I'm probably one of the few people who actually likes that movie's Caligari-esque take on the Penguin, which is a lot creepier than the original comics version.)

Yeah I've grown to love his Penguin a lot more in recent years, and it really is a fantastic and underrated performance by Devito.

I think the only problem (which I still feel when watching today) is that Catwoman is just so damn cool and fun to watch in the movie that it's really her and her interactions with Bruce that you want to watch most. And the Penguin scenes just can't compete with that, and don't seem nearly as interesting unfortunately. Which is a problem considering he's the main villain and most of the story is about him.

 

[Timby]

Certainly, Elfman's score has never been beaten. Wouldn't it be great if they brought him back to score some of the new DC movies? He certainly would suit the dark tone they've been going for, and could give us something that otherwise seems to have gone extinct - a memorable superhero theme-tune.

That would require Elfman to craft a good score, which he hasn't done in, like, fifteen years.

That Michael Keaton's career basically flatlined in the mid-'90s is a shame.

Some people say that roles dried up because he walked away from a third Batman movie and others say that he was never a huge megastar to begin with and simply went back to his regular level of success.

I think the thing with Keaton is that he made a couple of really poor decisions in the '90s in terms of roles to take. Multiplicity was a disaster, Speechless was garbage and so was My Life -- after headlining three straight bombs, I think studios got cold feet about him as a headliner, even though he wasn't the problem with those films.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I just watched this for the first time in ages this morning, and I thought share my thoughts and see what others had to say about it.

This was a good Batman movie, with a great look. The production design was probably my favorite thing about the movie. It did scream Tim Burton, but I think this style really worked for the kind of movie Burton was making here. It was pretty over the top at times, but it didn't go to the extremes that Joel Schumaker's later two movies did.
The cast was great, Micheal Keaton and Jack Nicholson were great as Batman and Joker, and I thought Kim Basinger was a pretty good love interest for Batman. I've never read any of the comics with Vicki Vale, so I can't judge her accuracy to the comics.
The Batsuit looked cool, but seemed to be pretty impractical. At times it looked like Keaton could barely even move, especially compared to the Batsuits from the Nolan/Bale and DCMU movies.
One minor issue was the fact that they did have Batman pretty clearly and intentionally killing a bunch of Joker's men, especially when blew up Axis Chemicals without bothering to try to evacuate it first. It did kind of bug me, but it wasn't enough to ruin it for me. I also thought there were a few places where they could have easily used stuff from the comics, like Ace instead of Axis Chemicals, and Carmine Falcone instead of Carl Grissom. Wikipedia says Falcone was introduced in 1987, so I guess there is a chance he wasn't around yet when they started developing the movie, depending on how long preproduction took. I know it didn't need to be those things, but it at least could have been a nice refence for the fans.

The production design was really nice and is still my favorite of all the Batman films. The movie now evokes some nice memories from the late 80s. The special effects were also nice and not overly done. I love the scenes with the bat plane. Excellent movie.

 

[Greg Cox]

And the Penguin scenes just can't compete with that, and don't seem nearly as interesting unfortunately. Which is a problem considering he's the main villain and most of the story is about him.

Which story? The one where he's trying to steal the children of Gotham's upper crust? Or the one where he's running for mayor? Or the one where he's going to destroy Gotham with rocket-powered penguins?

Like I said, the movie looks great, but the plot is a mess. It feels like they threw five different story treatments in the air and grabbed random pages from all of them.

And then there's Max Shreck's plot to steal Gotham's energy which Selina accidentally stumbles onto, precipitating her "death," and which is then never mentioned again!

 

[DWF]

I remember when the film was in production, the hype was incredible and I thought there was no way it'd beat Indiana Jones at the box office. And really for a while I still wasn't all that thrilled by the movie, 'til I understood what Burton was trying to do, the movie is closer to a play or opera and seeing it that made it work for me. After that though Warner wanted toy commericals iinstead of real movies, both Burton and Shumaker(SP) said as much in seperate commentaries.

 

[Greg Cox]

I remember when the film was in production, the hype was incredible and I thought there was no way it'd beat Indiana Jones at the box office. And really for a while I still wasn't all that thrilled by the movie, 'til I understood what Burton was trying to do, the movie is closer to a play or opera and seeing it that made it work for me. After that though Warner wanted toy commericals iinstead of real movies, both Burton and Shumaker(SP) said as much in seperate commentaries.

As I recall, there were some complaints from parents (and merchandisers) that RETURNS was too dark and weird for kids. In particular, there was a bit of stink over the fact that McDonald's had done Happy Meals for a movie that wasn't entirely suitable for small children.

 

[DWF]

I remember when the film was in production, the hype was incredible and I thought there was no way it'd beat Indiana Jones at the box office. And really for a while I still wasn't all that thrilled by the movie, 'til I understood what Burton was trying to do, the movie is closer to a play or opera and seeing it that made it work for me. After that though Warner wanted toy commericals iinstead of real movies, both Burton and Shumaker(SP) said as much in seperate commentaries.

As I recall, there were some complaints from parents (and merchandisers) that RETURNS was too dark and weird for kids. In particular, there was a bit of stink over the fact that McDonald's had done Happy Meals for a movie that wasn't entirely suitable for small children.

Minions is having a similar problem nowadays, but whatever complaints there were over Bartman Returns it didn't stop them from selling plenty of toys.

 

[Amaris]

When I watch a new Batman film, whether I want to or not, I still compare it to Batman (1989) because for me that is the gold standard. I like the Nolan films, but Keaton is Batman, it really feels like Gotham City, and Danny Elfman is a musical genius.

 

[kirk55555]

As I recall, there were some complaints from parents (and merchandisers) that RETURNS was too dark and weird for kids. In particular, there was a bit of stink over the fact that McDonald's had done Happy Meals for a movie that wasn't entirely suitable for small children.

Heck, i'd say that Batman Returns is almost too dark for adults, much less kids

 

[Dream]

As I recall, there were some complaints from parents (and merchandisers) that RETURNS was too dark and weird for kids. In particular, there was a bit of stink over the fact that McDonald's had done Happy Meals for a movie that wasn't entirely suitable for small children.

I hope those same parents also complained about Batman and Robin being too kiddy.

 

[TRON JA307020]

When I watch a new Batman film, whether I want to or not, I still compare it to Batman (1989) because for me that is the gold standard. I like the Nolan films, but Keaton is Batman, it really feels like Gotham City, and Danny Elfman is a musical genius.

Agreed. Burtons Batman feels like a comic book unlike the Nolan version. The colors, the sets and the characters were all spot on in my opinion. Excellent movie.