Jonathan Frakes: "Star Trek won't be coming back to TV."

[BillJ]

Berman had very little to do with ENT failing. That was all on UPN's shoulders.

I am oversimplifying it, but the franchise was already in pretty poor shape by then due to Berman's stewardship. So he's really the one person probably most responsible for killing the franchise. I know people don't like to accept that because it's become somewhat cliche'. We'd like to find some new slant on it that upends prior assumptions, but it sure seems accurate to me.

I disagreed with many decisions Rick Berman made, but I don't think the franchise's decline is really on him. Paramount ignored him when he wanted to take breaks between shows, nixed the idea for a year long "Year of Hell" and forced the Temporal Cold War on him.

 

[Dukhat]

Berman had very little to do with ENT failing. That was all on UPN's shoulders.

I am oversimplifying it, but the franchise was already in pretty poor shape by then due to Berman's stewardship. So he's really the one person probably most responsible for killing the franchise. I know people don't like to accept that because it's become somewhat cliche'. We'd like to find some new slant on it that upends prior assumptions, but it sure seems accurate to me.

I disagree. The franchise was in poor shape because ENT was the fourth Star Trek spinoff that was essentially the same thing as the spinoffs that came before it, only with a different cast and a different ship. The main difference was that UPN asserted the most creative control of ENT than even VOY (while TNG and DS9 were relatively free of studio meddling by being syndicated.) Berman was correct when he cited "franchise fatigue" as the reason why fans were dwindling. Of course, what was not said was that the franchise fatigue happened because they were just giving us more of the same thing advertised as something else.

 

[IrishNero]

Then the solution is simple. The next Trek show should be a brilliantly written powerhouse of storytelling, acting and originality that charms the shit out of the critics

But then additionally, members of the public are randomly chosen to guest star in each new episode. No acting experience, only a day to learn their lines and there would be companion show where we get to see how they got on

It can't fail

I'd watch that

Me too.

 

[mos6507]

Paramount ignored him when he wanted to take breaks between shows, nixed the idea for a year long "Year of Hell" and forced the Temporal Cold War on him.

There's a word for people who shut up and do what they're told rather than fight for quality.

Hack.

If he felt he was stepping into a no-win scenario by Paramount he should have walked. His career reputation would have turned out better in the end.

 

[Dukhat]

There's a word for people who shut up and do what they're told rather than fight for quality.

Hack.

If he felt he was stepping into a no-win scenario by Paramount he should have walked. His career reputation would have turned out better in the end.

That's complete bullshit. If I were to open my big mouth and "fight for quality" at my place of employment, I'd be fired, and my livelihood and my family's livelihood would be sacrificed because I was stupid enough to make waves when it was far easier to just go with the flow. I expect Berman was in the same situation. It's hard to worry much about your reputation when you have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Or am I a hack too?

 

[mos6507]

That's complete bullshit. If I were to open my big mouth and "fight for quality" at my place of employment, I'd be fired,

I knew you would go there. Fine. Let's argue this point.

Employment is supply and demand. If you're unhappy where you work, and you feel you have alternatives, you leave.

The reason to be unhappy in a creative profession could be that you feel you're having to attach your name to crap and take the blame for it.

Do you really think that nobody in Hollywood takes a pass on work they think sucks? Do you think that nobody in Hollywood regrets taking on work that turns out to suck and tarnishes their reputation as a result?

My definition of a hack is someone who wilfully decides to produce crap. They cash the check and don't rock the boat. It means they either don't feel they have enough talent to get another gig or they just don't care that much about quality in the first place.

This is not some migrant worker who feels they can't quit their janitorial job and has medical bills for his kids. This is a high priced executive who should be able to write his own meal ticket, who produced crap, and then tried to pass the blame to Paramount, and has been partly successful based on the people who are rallying to his defense in this thread.

---

Look at Leonard Nimoy stories that surfaced recently (from Michael Eisner's bio) about his reticence about rejoining TMP, and the rationalizations he used to join, and the way (so he says) that he tried to work unofficially with Shatner to improve the last act, and how that experience colored how he approached II, III, and IV. This sort of judgment call as to whether to play along or not and how it might impact your reputation happens all the time. It's not true that everyone just keeps blindly feeding at the trough and never tries to protect quality, nor should rocking the boat be seen as putting ones family's livelihood in grave danger. It's an absurd exaggeration.

---

Here's another example. Denise Crosby leaving TNG. She felt she had nothing to do anymore, that the character was kind of already being written out of the show anyway. You can argue that she didn't have better prospects and should have hunkered down, but it was a judgment call that by staying she'd be a glorified extra. I could see her rationale. Do I have to go down the whole list of Trek actors or behind the scenes people who decided to quit for one reason or another?

 

[BillJ]

Look at Leonard Nimoy stories that surfaced recently (from Michael Eisner's bio) about his reticence about rejoining TMP, and the rationalizations he used to join, and the way (so he says) that he tried to work unofficially with Shatner to improve the last act, and how that experience colored how he approached II, III, and IV. This sort of judgment call as to whether to play along or not and how it might impact your reputation happens all the time. It's not true that everyone just keeps blindly feeding at the trough and never tries to protect quality, nor should rocking the boat be seen as putting ones family's livelihood in grave danger. It's an absurd exaggeration.

The same Nimoy who worked with both Rick Berman, and J.J. Abrams twice?

Here's another example. Denise Crosby leaving TNG. She felt she had nothing to do anymore, that the character was kind of already being written out of the show anyway. You can argue that she didn't have better prospects and should have hunkered down, but it was a judgment call that by staying she'd be a glorified extra. I could see her rationale. Do I have to go down the whole list of Trek actors or behind the scenes people who decided to quit for one reason or another?

And spent the next decade trying to claw her way back in.

Rick Berman remained steadily employed in Hollywood for seventeen plus years. That is no easy feat.

 

[Dukhat]

This is not some migrant worker who feels they can't quit their janitorial job and has medical bills for his kids. This is a high priced executive who should be able to write his own meal ticket, who produced crap, and then tried to pass the blame to Paramount, and has been partly successful based on the people who are rallying to his defense in this thread.

First of all, you have your facts wrong. While Rick Berman was executive producer, he never stated that he felt he was producing "crap." The only time I can think of that he ever once reported regret about Star Trek was years after the fact when he admitted that TATV was a mistake. And even at the time that he produced that episode he thought it was great. So why would he ever need to leave a position where he thought he was doing just fine?

Yes, he had some ideas for ENT that UPN ultimately nixed and he had to deal with UPN's meddling about making the show "sexier," but I've never once heard him or anyone else who worked on ENT declare that they were producing shit. On the contrary, people like him, Doug Drexler, Mike Okuda, et al. have stated how proud they were to work on that show.

Don't confuse internet fan griping for reality.

 

[fireproof78]

Then the solution is simple. The next Trek show should be a brilliantly written powerhouse of storytelling, acting and originality that charms the shit out of the critics

But then additionally, members of the public are randomly chosen to guest star in each new episode. No acting experience, only a day to learn their lines and there would be companion show where we get to see how they got on

It can't fail

I'd watch that

Me too.

I think I would watch that show too. And, if they decide to film in Vancouver, I think I would try to make an appearance. All those high school drama classes will finally pay off!

 

[Mudd]

There's a word for people who shut up and do what they're told rather than fight for quality.

Hack.

That's complete bullshit.

Yes, it is. Petulant absolutism is the province of onlookers and amateurs.

No one makes a living in show business that way, no matter what legends they or others spin about them to suggest otherwise.

 

[BillJ]

There's a word for people who shut up and do what they're told rather than fight for quality.

Hack.

That's complete bullshit.

Yes, it is. Petulant absolutism is the province of onlookers and amateurs.

No one makes a living in show business that way, no matter what legends they or others spin about them to suggest otherwise.

This. If Roddenberry had his way, we would have had a red-skinned Martian Spock and a Deanna Troi with three breasts.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Budgets and time contraints have often been the mother of unintended improvements on TV series of fantisy or science fiction nature. The more I read Trivia pages on shows on IMDb, the more I am convinced of this.



I think Frakes is being let down politely. Oh, Trek will come back, but it will be some kind of siumilar JJ work if not a new series from the JJ universe. It appears they are done with the old fanbase. They gave us the middle finger a few times and now that new JJ fans have been found, they're going to go with what will likely bring in the viewing butts.

 

[eyeresist]

Paramount ignored him when he wanted to take breaks between shows, nixed the idea for a year long "Year of Hell" and forced the Temporal Cold War on him.

There's a word for people who shut up and do what they're told rather than fight for quality.

Hack.

Or "employee". If he didn't do the job, someone else would have. Contrary to your fantasies, no sane person is going to take a martyr position in defence of "true Trek".

 

[Trekkin]

That's complete bullshit.

Yes, it is. Petulant absolutism is the province of onlookers and amateurs.

No one makes a living in show business that way, no matter what legends they or others spin about them to suggest otherwise.

This. If Roddenberry had his way, we would have had a red-skinned Martian Spock and a Deanna Troi with three breasts.

Wait a minute...didn't Naff get sacked off TNG for playing a character with three breasts? Whilst Roddenberry was still (kinda, maybe) involved in the show running?

Wow.

 

[mos6507]

Contrary to your fantasies, no sane person is going to take a martyr position in defence of "true Trek".

It's not about "take a martyr position in defence[sic] of "true Trek"

It's about having enough pride in your work that you aren't going to just cash the check and slap your name onto something you feel has been sabotaged by forces outside of your control.

And if you don't think situations happen in Hollywood where people try to back out of or disown their own work, look at this, for instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Smithee

And that's just situations where they commit and regret it, not all the other cases where they turn down work and go elsewhere.

Look at Rick Berman now. I don't see a single IMDB credit for him since Enterprise. Rightly or wrongly, he's the guy people blame for killing the franchise. So maybe he was thinking "gee, I have to put my kids through college" but it has a negative impact on his career, post Trek.

Compare that to Ron Moore who went onto bigger and better things after dropping out of Voyager.

 

[BillJ]

Look at Rick Berman now. I don't see a single IMDB credit for him since Enterprise. Rightly or wrongly, he's the guy people blame for killing the franchise. So maybe he was thinking "gee, I have to put my kids through college" but it has a negative impact on his career, post Trek.

Rick Berman was 60 years old when his time on Star Trek ended. Maybe he wanted to retire?

Compare that to Ron Moore who went onto bigger and better things after dropping out of Voyager.

 

[Dukhat]

Look at Rick Berman now. I don't see a single IMDB credit for him since Enterprise. Rightly or wrongly, he's the guy people blame for killing the franchise. So maybe he was thinking "gee, I have to put my kids through college" but it has a negative impact on his career, post Trek.

Compare that to Ron Moore who went onto bigger and better things after dropping out of Voyager.

Wow, you're really into fantasyland now, aren't you? While it's a nice thought that every single person who decides to quit his job so that he can move on to what he thinks is a better thing does indeed reach success in life, in actuality that is a crapshoot that at best only works 50% of the time. I know many people who quit lucrative jobs in favor of what they perceived as a more lucrative job only to realize that they actually had it much better before.

And do you know Rick Berman personally? Has he told you that he's still smarting for not standing up to UPN all those years ago? What makes you think he even cares about his career? For all we know, he's socked away his earnings and has retired to spend time with his family, and cares less about Star Trek than I care about Lost in Space.

 

[Mudd]

Wait a minute...didn't Naff get sacked off TNG for playing a character with three breasts? Whilst Roddenberry was still (kinda, maybe) involved in the show running?

No.

 

[Mudd]

Rightly or wrongly...

Wrongly.

Rick Berman was 60 years old when his time on Star Trek ended. Maybe he wanted to retire?

If one were inclined to be logical rather than grinding an axe, that would seem likely.

The suggestion that a guy who was the executive producer nearly twenty years of massively successful television was suddenly unemployable because his show was finally cancelled is, to put it politely, unobservant.

 

[Tarek71]

http://www.treknews.net/2015/04/28/jonathan-frakes-star-trek-not-coming-back-to-tv/

According to this news article; it is revealed that the network execs over at CBS/Paramount have as of current no interest or ideas of making a new TV Series and trying to focus on movies more feeling that it dilutes the franchise less and that it makes more money from what it seems.

Whether it was reality shows, Law & Order or CSI, networks will make them, and make as many as possible if they are making enough profit off of them.

If they believed there was a ST show that would make huge profits, it would already be on the air. The whole idea that they would turn down buckets of cash to avoid "dilution" is BS.

If they aren't making one it has nothing to do with that. They just must not believe that a ST show is not going to make enough to justify the investment.