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The TAS discussion thread

Kor

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I feel a sudden need to discuss the oft-overlooked animated series.

While animation made it possible to visit more exotic settings, the style of animation was rather stilted, as typical of many animated TV shows of the early seventies. And the Filmation stock music grates on the nerves after a while.

I appreciate the fact that we got more stories from TOS writers D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold. And I've always liked "The Slaver Weapon," adapted from Larry Niven's short story "The Soft Weapon." Unfortunately, the Kzinti ship and spacesuits were pink due to the director being colourblind.

What are your thoughts on TAS?

Kor
 
While animation made it possible to visit more exotic settings, the style of animation was rather stilted, as typical of many animated TV shows of the early seventies.

So it's a product of its era, much like TOS was? Hard to hold that against it.

Not only exotic settings, but animation allowed them to be really creative with their aliens, which I appreciated!

And the Filmation stock music grates on the nerves after a while.
I'm probably alone in this, but I really like the upbeat-sounding TAS theme! I understand that it's basically a reworking of the TOS theme... but it's still one of my favourite Trek themes. ;)

I appreciate the fact that we got more stories from TOS writers D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold. And I've always liked "The Slaver Weapon," adapted from Larry Niven's short story "The Soft Weapon." Unfortunately, the Kzinti ship and spacesuits were pink due to the director being colourblind.
How is that unfortunate? We've seen ships in almost every colour of the rainbow in Trek; why is pink not a valid option?

Who knows, maybe Kzinti blood is pink, and to them it's a very menacing colour! :D

What are your thoughts on TAS?
I'm a fan. :) It's got its duds, just like TOS itself does. But it also has some standout episodes. Overall, I'm glad it's part of the Trek mythos.

And IIRC, TAS is the only place where we saw Uhura in command. TAS for the win! :techman:
 
^I love that music!

But then, I grew up with Filmation cartoons and their music, so I've always loved it. And I discovered TAS not long after I discovered TOS at the age of five. I was watching the "cartoon Star Trek" on Saturday mornings in between watching the live-action episodes on weekday evenings. So they were parts of the same whole to me.
 
I find the shows largely unwatchable due to the leaden pacing and bland voice acting.
 
There's a huge nostalgia factor in TAS for me that still carries over to today. I was already hooked on Star Trek by TOS when TAS came out, but I'd seen only some of TOS, and TOS was airing very irregularly at the time. I was brought deeper into Star Trek by TAS.

If I were to rank all episodes of Star Trek, the best and the worst would not be TAS episodes. Many, such as "Beyond the Farthest Star," "Yesteryear," "One of Our Planets Is Missing," "The Time Trap," and "The Slaver Weapon," would be nowhere near the bottom.
 
Besides "The Cage," "The Slaver Weapon" is the only TOS era story to not feature Kirk. This makes Spock the only TOS era character to appear in every story.
 
Overall a mixed bag but enjoyable ..haven't seen them in Years
As said the filmation 70s animation.is not great but as a kid it didn't bother me. Liked the greater use of aliens.some good stories which were not kiddies in nature.

Part of me wishes if they redo trek on Tv they go animated
 
I find the shows largely unwatchable due to the leaden pacing and bland voice acting.

I wanted to like them. Istill do in theory, but not in actually, y'know, watching. Was considering ebaying my orange dreamsicle clamshell of DVDs. I love the packaging.
 
There's a big nostalgia factor for me as well. I loved the episodes as a wee lad. I found them somewhat easier to understand than the live-action series (simpler plots and not so much mushy romance stuff :razz: ). And since they were only half an hour long, you could watch more stories in the same amount of time!

Kor
 
It can out around the time I became a "serious" fan. I was watching the reruns and had read the Making of Star Trek. So a new trek series was a godsend. I liked it.
 
While animation made it possible to visit more exotic settings, the style of animation was rather stilted, as typical of many animated TV shows of the early seventies.

Filmation polished their work on TAS; if one viewed the studio's other efforts of the same period--or worse, anything from Hanna-Barbera, you can see a stark difference in general quality. My Favorite Martians & Pebbles and Bamm-Bamm it was not.

And the Filmation stock music grates on the nerves after a while.

Many original pieces were created for the series (the main theme's melody is very distinctive & runs through many series cues), which would be used in many Filmation productions to follow--becoming stock music.

I appreciate the fact that we got more stories from TOS writers D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold. And I've always liked "The Slaver Weapon," adapted from Larry Niven's short story "The Soft Weapon." Unfortunately, the Kzinti ship and spacesuits were pink due to the director being colourblind.

What are your thoughts on TAS?

Kor

I consider it the natural conclusion of TOS. Curiously, unlike season three of TOS, where there was a caustic, biting tone between people who (by that time) should have been warmer with each other, the assumed "light" nature of TAS allowed the principal characters to act like they were longtime friends--real companions.

TAS also served as a proving ground that ST could live after reruns, with an entirely new approach to a beloved series, that (when all was said and done) was every bit as faithful as any of then-faraway movies and spin off series.
 
My memories of it aren't good, but I'd be happy to get it if they kept the voice tracks and re-animated it.
 
Trek God said it first, but I'll say it again; many of Filmation's 'stock' music cues were composed first for TAS, and only became stock cues later, on succeeding shows like "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe". The chase theme Kor complained about was composed to be an additional 'action' theme along with the ones composed by A. Courage, Fred Steiner and the rest. That it is so well composed, and so compelling, is what made Filmation use it again and again in "Batman"(with Bat-Mite) and so many others. Indeed, one of the posters in the link Kor posted tried to say it had been composed for an earlier production and then used in TAS, but TAS is from 1973 and Filmation's 'Treasure Island' was not made, or not released, until 1978, so it appeared in TAS first.
 
Trek God said it first, but I'll say it again; many of Filmation's 'stock' music cues were composed first for TAS, and only became stock cues later, on succeeding shows like "He-Man and the Masters of the Universe".

No, that's not right. Yes, some of the cues Ray Ellis and Norm Prescott (as Yvette Blais and Jeff Michael) composed for TAS were reused in later '70s Filmation shows with the same composers, like The New Adventures of Batman and Jason of Star Command (just as some of TAS's cues were recycled from Lassie's Rescue Rangers, whose cues were also heavily recycled in Tarzan, Shazam, and Isis). But He-Man had a completely distinct, electronic score provided by Shuki Levy, Haim Saban, and Lou Scheimer (under the pseudonym Erika Lane). Not a single note of Ellis and Prescott's music was ever used in He-Man. Its music was entirely original to it, and the only other show that ever used it was She-Ra.

The way Filmation worked -- the way most cartoons at the time worked -- was that a library of stock cues was created for each show at the beginning and tracked in all its episodes. So yes, the TAS cues were stock from the beginning, in that they were not written for specific scenes in specific episodes, but just as general cues to fit particular moods and tones, to be cut together as needed to create episode scores. As a rule, most Filmation shows that Ellis and Prescott scored had their own distinct cue libraries written just for them and based on their own distinctive themes; but they also sometimes recycled cues from certain other shows. For instance, Blackstar relied heavily on stock Flash Gordon cues, while also adding a number of new cues in the same style based on Blackstar's theme and other character themes specific to the show. And The New Adventures of Zorro had a mostly original score in a Latin style, but borrowed some cues from the previous year's Lone Ranger series, because they had a certain stylistic overlap. But you'd be unlikely to hear a Flash Gordon cue on Zorro, say. And none of the shows I mentioned in the previous three sentences used any TAS cues; Jason of Star Command's first season was the last use of any of those, as far as I know.


The chase theme Kor complained about was composed to be an additional 'action' theme along with the ones composed by A. Courage, Fred Steiner and the rest.

I don't know what you mean by "along with." No music from the original series was ever reused on the animated series. That would've required paying royalties to the original composers, and Filmation was too frugal for that. The cue in question was just one of several recurring action cues that Ellis and Prescott wrote for TAS (as well as one major one that came from Lassie's Rescue Rangers, and that isn't included on the YouTube soundtrack compilation).
 
No matter what I say, you have to tell me I'm wrong. It never fails.

Many of the themes from TAS were reused, mostly in Tarzan and Batman(with Bat-Mite) for animation, and Shazam, Isis and Space Academy/Jason of Star Command for live action. And many of the original themes for each show were reworkings of previous themes, which is why you can tell a Filmation show often by the music alone. Space Academy, of which Jason of Star Command stole most of their sets and costumes, was infamous for using not only music but sound effects from TAS.

As far as 'along with' I don't give a flying fickle finger of fate about royalties. I was talking about Ellis and Prescott wanting their theme to be as memorable to Trek fans as anything Courage, Steiner or any other TOS composer's work. The TAS themes were among the most ambitious and best composed themes that they ever did, which is why they were used, reused an overused, up until Filmation itself was disbanded because of the failure of their feature film, Happily Ever After, where many of them were used one last time.
 
No matter what I say, you have to tell me I'm wrong. It never fails.

The facts are what they are. I'm not trying to "get" you, I'm trying to assist you (and everyone else who's interested) by providing fuller information on a subject I happen to know well.


Many of the themes from TAS were reused, mostly in Tarzan and Batman(with Bat-Mite) for animation, and Shazam, Isis and Space Academy/Jason of Star Command for live action.
Well, I think the cues shared between TAS, Tarzan, Shazam, and Isis were the ones that originated in Lassie's Rescue Rangers. As for Space Academy, I don't recall whether it specifically used any TAS cues; I was listening for them when I rewatched it on DVD, and I think I recall being surprised at their absence. Not to mention my surprise at how little reuse of music between Filmation shows there actually was. I can't blame you for overestimating the extent of the reuse, because I believed the same thing until I actually rewatched the shows. Certainly they tend to have a common style, being from the same composers, so it's easy to mix up what was shared and what wasn't.


And many of the original themes for each show were reworkings of previous themes, which is why you can tell a Filmation show often by the music alone.
If they were reworked, they weren't original, by definition. Certainly Ellis and Prescott were great at taking a motif and developing it in many different ways in different cues; in fact, when I was a kid, their music was the first place where I really noticed that practice. I remember being in my father's car and talking to him and my sister about how impressed I was at the different ways they'd develop a leitmotif (though I didn't use that word) to fit different styles and tempos and moods, only to be told that that was a pretty routine compositional practice.

I can absolutely recognize a Ray Ellis score just by listening; I even noticed the similarity of his '60s Spider-Man cartoon scores to his later Filmation work before I even learned that "Yvette Blais" was actually Ray Ellis. But that's due more to his style than to specific melodies. Again, while it's certainly true that a number of cues were reused from show to show, it was less extensive than I used to think, and less common in the later '70s than in the early '70s. And of course Filmation stopped using Ellis altogether once He-Man came along.


Space Academy, of which Jason of Star Command stole most of their sets and costumes, was infamous for using not only music but sound effects from TAS.
Well, lots of shows shared sound effects. At the time, there were only a few sound-effects companies in Hollywood, and they didn't have huge digital libraries, just shelves full of reel-to-reel tapes. So you heard a lot of the same sound effects all over the place. Pretty much all of Filmation's shows had their sound FX and music editing done by Horta-Mahana, Inc., so the sounds used in those shows came from that library; and Horta-Mahana inherited a lot of Star Trek sound FX from Glen Glenn Sound when they did TAS, and kept using those sounds in later productions.

And you can hardly say Jason "stole" Space Academy's sets and costumes, when it was from the same producers. It was a spinoff, set in the same reality. Star Command was supposedly a secret division of the Space Academy, according to the narration, although it never acted like a secret organization.


The TAS themes were among the most ambitious and best composed themes that they ever did, which is why they were used, reused an overused, up until Filmation itself was disbanded because of the failure of their feature film, Happily Ever After, where many of them were used one last time.
Sorry, but no. I've actually watched these shows within the past few years specifically listening for those cues, cues that I heard countless times as a child and know absolutely by heart. I know where they were and weren't used, and they were not used in remotely near as many Filmation shows as you claim. They absolutely were not used in any Filmation show after 1982, because Ellis was no longer contributing scores to Filmation. And you should care about royalties, because every decision in Hollywood is about money, and if a piece of music gets reused, that means its composer gets paid for it. So if your show has one composer and you want to reuse music by another composer, you have to pay extra to use it. Which is why most TV and movie series that change composers also stop using the old themes. Ellis's last show for Filmation was Gilligan's Planet in 1982. None of his music was used after that, not in He-Man, She-Ra, Ghostbusters, or BraveStarr, and certainly not in Filmation's later features. The music for Happily Ever After was by Frank Becker, the composer for BraveStarr.
 
For me, it's just always been a part of the 'Star Trek' experience. It's the final voyages of the five year mission. :)
 
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