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Jonathan Frakes: "Star Trek won't be coming back to TV."

I dropped out on Enterprise simply because I was bored. It wasn't any better or worse than most of the rest of Star Trek. The reason I'm happy with a movie every few years and an occasional novel is because it doesn't overwhelm me.


Although I finally got to see Enterprise in its entirety a couple of years after it went off the air, I remember feeling the same at the time. There was a point between oh...1998 and 2005 that something Trek-related seemed to be on TV 24/7/365. I couldn't stomach it any more, and I consider myself a true fan. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see a new series, but there's got to be a happy middle ground between feast and famine.
 
Exactly - it wasn't that the producers made some eggregiously poor choice of premise for Enterprise that doomed it - it was that every series was too much like what had gone that caused most viewers who hung on at all after TNG to just lose interest.
 
Why exactly do you think there was so much humor in Star Trek V? Because Star Trek IV made a shit ton of money. The financial success of The Voyage Home directly influenced The Final Frontier.

Trek V attempted to copy aspects from Trek IV and failed in the execution.

Insurrection didn't try to carry over the successful aspects of First Contact and failed.

Nemesis tried to copy aspects of Trek II and failed in execution.

All that tells me is that copying what worked before is neither a formula for success or failure. It's all in the execution.

Making a successful movie is more than just plugging together predictable parts. It takes work.
 
I will agree that Nemesis is a better movie than Insurrection. But the proof is in the box office receipts. Not the quality.

Insurrection made $70.2 million.
Nemesis made $43.3.

That is a major drop off. Even if you adjust for inflation with Insurrection coming in at $119.4 million and Nemesis at $59.8), Nemesis is not only a failure, but a pretty dismal one.

Source: Box Office Mojo

I think you're giving too much creedence into ticket sales and money gross. Quality and reviews as well as public opinion do matter too.

Quality and public opinion do matter but the ticket sales and the box office results is what ultimately drives whether or not there will be another film. Honestly, the studio could give a crap as to whether or not a film took place in the Prime or JJ-verse. They care about what puts people in the seats. As you mention later, obviously, for some odd reason or another, Transformers does that. As did Avatar. As do the reboots. Nemesis? It did not. Perhaps it was an indication we went to the well one too many times... maybe?

I mean look at Star Trek IV, even if you adjusted for inflation it is still the highest grossing movie in the Trek franchise (other than the rebooted films); but if it was so successful why did the studio not partake after the formula of the 4th Trek movie into future installments?

Um... no it's not. Adjusted, IV is in 3rd place with $234 million. TMP in 2nd with $266 million. ST09 at the top with $280 million. But STID is actually behind IV.

Because critique-wise; the movie WAS NOT successful; it got mixed review by many and I have met a few fellow Trekfans that say next to Trek5, it's the worst movie in the series.

But up until the Reboots, IV is arguably the most easily accessible of the films. It goes back to the present, has a comedic tone and makes a grand tale with seven fish out of water. V did try to keep on that but it missed the boat. IV brought in more people who would not watch a Trek film because it was more easily accessible. I personally think it has aged terribly.

And before you use Michael Bay's Transformers as a means of saying I'm wrong, look into the actual reviews for it; there is a legit fanbase for it and people who think they're good movies (I know... people are weird.)

I think they're shit but I know people like them. Nothing wrong with that.
 
I think you're giving too much creedence into ticket sales and money gross. Quality and reviews as well as public opinion do matter too.

I mean look at Star Trek IV, even if you adjusted for inflation it is still the highest grossing movie in the Trek franchise (other than the rebooted films); but if it was so successful why did the studio not partake after the formula of the 4th Trek movie into future installments?

Because critique-wise; the movie WAS NOT successful; it got mixed review by many and I have met a few fellow Trekfans that say next to Trek5, it's the worst movie in the series.

Why exactly do you think there was so much humor in Star Trek V? Because Star Trek IV made a shit ton of money. The financial success of The Voyage Home directly influenced The Final Frontier.

There's always been humor in Star Trek, the fact that two movies have humor in it does not shock me, and yes; like all sequels; the monetary success of Trek4 did make way for Trek5, but then comes the fact that the overall formula of the two films are completely different.

One is of a particular story and character driven narrative that involves a situation and problem that needs to be resolved quickly and with absolute swiftness, no real villain what so ever to drastically make the stakes high but the overall stakes presented is what creates drama and tension in the story.

Meanwhile the other film is a highly action and villain driven narrative where the entire story is built around making sure the villain is stopped with similar relative swiftness and with little casualties as possible. Guns blazing left and right, shifty one liners spewed quickly from the actors as they're made to carry the story along scene by scene. The tension in the story is made by the actions and situations they're placed in rather than the built up stakes expressed by the characters themselves.

The latter description of these two fits perfectly with the storytelling style of the two Trek movies before Trek4. Both Trek2 and 3 were primarily villain driven narratives that involved the villain doing things that were no good and they had to put a stop to them. Nothing wrong with that style of storytelling in Trek, if done right; you can have GREAT stories with it, Trek2 and Trek3 are good examples of this, they were great films, well received by critics and the majority of fans (Trek3 to a lesser extent).

Trek4 however diverted from this formula and went to the former description of the two films. Again, this is not a bad means for writing Trek, in fact; many of Trek's greatest stories work better as a means of this formula but alas it was not meant to be; while the movie mad a ton of money by subverting to the expectations of people who enjoyed the last two Trek films (people were still under the Star Wars/Alien heat at the time because those two movies kind of showed it was possible to make a sequel that can live up to and in some ways surpass the original) and they all went to theaters to see it.

When they did, the reviews by both Trekfans, casual movie goers and critics were mixed, some people liked it and some people didn't. What people who were disappointed with the movie and the majority complaint in every review was because of the change in formula where there was a lack of a main villain. People wanted another Action movie, but they didn't get it sadly and expectations were subverted to the point where even if they rectified it in Trek5 (they did anyways and went back to the villain driven formula) that it would not be saved anyways. It likely would have still failed regardless. Trek6 came back with a bang because they were announcing it as the last of the Trek movies with Kirk and Spock and don't look at me for one second and tell me that subtext alone wasn't enough to be the driving point to selling the movie.

In the end, actual critiques and reviews do matter and the studios DO listen from time to time; but the sad truth is, not everyone shares the same opinions as we do. :(
 
It bombed because it stank.

Insurrection was a big disappointment, and after four years of waiting Nemesis turned out the be an even bigger disappointment.

Which only proves my point. If the last two TNG movies stunk, what makes you think a Series V taking place post-VOY instead of being a prequel would be any different?

To be honest, I don't see them making a series taking place in prime canon....
 
It bombed because it stank.

Insurrection was a big disappointment, and after four years of waiting Nemesis turned out the be an even bigger disappointment.

Which only proves my point. If the last two TNG movies stunk, what makes you think a Series V taking place post-VOY instead of being a prequel would be any different?

To be honest, I don't see them making a series taking place in prime canon....

I was actually talking about ENT...Oso Blanco was arguing that it failed because it was a prequel, and I'm pointing out that that was not the case.
 
I'd like Star Trek to come back to TV, but at the moment it's not a likely reality. If it did come back to TV, I would look forward to something set in the Abrams movie universe.
 
All Frakes did was reinforce what the position has been at CBS for years. Others have tried to pitch series ideas with no success. CBS head Les Moonves' last comment on the subject, as far as I know, was that he's not interested in Trek on TV.

Of course, "true" fans will never accept that.
 
I don't recall where, but I do recall hearing that Moonves doesn't like Star Trek and that's one of the reasons it won't get back on TV. I have no idea of the veracity of that statement, so it could be a load of BS. I do remember hearing or reading something to that effect, though.
 
^It's a load of BS. If Moonves thought Star Trek could be cheaply produced while also being highly profitable and a ratings winner, he'd order a new Trek show tomorrow.

If he truly hated Star Trek, it was only because it got poor ratings.
 
Lots of things about Trek IV and V, money, and critiques

Not trying to single out one specific point, but more the overall aspect of Trek IV influencing Trek V.

First of all, Trek IV proved a financial success that the studio loved and wanted to see the more humorous adventure style repeated. Prior success informed their desire in making the next film. Regardless of critiques, the film demonstrated that subverting the normal formula and being more accessible to movie goers was a positive thing.

Things get muddy when Shatner wanted to a more introspective, philosophical piece in the search for God, rather than a comedy style that the studio wanted. The problem isn't the comedy, but that Shatner tried to have his cake and eat it too. Trek V failed because it tried to juggle too many disparate elements and ignored what had worked in the past 4 films, in either comedy or drama.

Also, the film blew its budget so badly that Trek 6 almost didn't get made simply because the budget allotted would not be enough to do anything remotely close to what would be necessary to make a successful film.
 
I think you're giving too much creedence[sic] into ticket sales and money gross. Quality and reviews as well as public opinion do matter too.

"Quality" in the sense that it's endlessly discussed in regard to pop culture is a matter of each viewer's opinion. The only reliable measure of "public opinion" that matters in commercial television and filmmaking is what people will pay to watch.

Yes. And 'quality' programming means absolutely nothing to a TV network. That's why there are so many reality TV shows these days. They're a business, and all they really care about is turning a profit by attracting viewers and selling commercial time. An Emmy award won't stop your show from getting cancelled if it isn't bringing in the viewers.
 
Yes. And 'quality' programming means absolutely nothing to a TV network. That's why there are so many reality TV shows these days. They're a business, and all they really care about is turning a profit by attracting viewers and selling commercial time. An Emmy award won't stop your show from getting cancelled if it isn't bringing in the viewers.

Then the solution is simple. The next Trek show should be a brilliantly written powerhouse of storytelling, acting and originality that charms the shit out of the critics

But then additionally, members of the public are randomly chosen to guest star in each new episode. No acting experience, only a day to learn their lines and there would be companion show where we get to see how they got on

It can't fail

I'd watch that
 
Lol people like frankes are the ones that killed star trek.

The fact that so much focus is put on the time period of when a show is shot, is all you need to know how the franchise got so bloated.

Look at a show like DS9 where you could of pretty much set it anywhere between 2150-2380.

DS9 knew to break from the insert franchise staple of the week. (atleast when it became watchable.)

The rest all stayed the same all the way though, minus the xindi arc.
 
All Frakes did was reinforce what the position has been at CBS for years. Others have tried to pitch series ideas with no success.

Most pitches we hear about weren't actually even followed through for the most part. Singer, Frakes, etc. didn't actually present anything. And of those pitches, most were actually made a decade ago. There are no recent ones, just people talking a lot of talk. Like Dorn, who doesn't really have much clout. If someone who did have more clout presented something, it may stand more of a chance.
 
All Frakes did was reinforce what the position has been at CBS for years. Others have tried to pitch series ideas with no success.

Most pitches we hear about weren't actually even followed through for the most part. Singer, Frakes, etc. didn't actually present anything. And of those pitches, most were actually made a decade ago. There are no recent ones, just people talking a lot of talk. Like Dorn, who doesn't really have much clout. If someone who did have more clout presented something, it may stand more of a chance.

Yet, there's still no evidence of a series anywhere in the foreseeable future.

ETA:

The CW president answered by saying “As a life-long ‘Star Trek’ fan, I would hope to have ‘Star Trek’ at The CW,” and going on to clarify, by saying “I have heard no discussion about it going out as a TV series at all,”.

http://www.treknews.net/2015/01/14/cw-president-wants-star-trek-tv/
 
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