Larry Wilmore on Nightly Show: "Nerds Hate Change"

[DarthTom]

In case you missed is, Larry Wilmore on the Nightly Show, attempted to dig into why so many SF/Fantasy fans get so upset when movie studios make dramatic changes - or even minor ones - to their favorite genres.

He sited several examples on the show which were presented in a funny way:

1. Batman of course - multiple different actors
2. The changes in Star Trek
3. The recent row about the black storm trooper
4. The all female cast of Ghost Busters

etc. etc.

He attributed why some of us get so in a kerfuffle over whqt many times is often minor alterations to our, "shows," issomeof us "nerds," have trouble with change.

I think he's right and tapped into something that didn't occur to me before. Some of just hate change. I remember all of the angst overthe blue nacells in the new Trek and more recently the Starship Enterprise being underwater and the hand wrining over both.

In any case, thoughts? Do we as a group - Sci-Fi/Fantasy fans - have difficulty with changes, even minor ones, to our favorite movies/shows?

Funny episode if you get a chance to watch the episode in the link provided.

 

[BigJake]

Can't watch the video but I'll assume that given Larry's chops it's a funny and intelligent bit as far as it goes.

But do I actually think you can analytically boil it all down to one thing? No. Some people just don't like change, some people don't like mediocrity, some people conflate the first two or confuse one for the other, some people don't like women (outside of very limited and decorative roles), some people don't like black people, and so on.

The "people hating change" thing is real but uneven, and usually at its strongest when it relates to some other factor.

For example, how many people really complain when Batman switches actors or James Bond does? Relatively few unless the new choice of actor is really unusual -- about the only example I can think of for the former is Ben Affleck, mostly because his last superhero outing was the notorious bomb Daredevil -- and even then winning people over isn't difficult if they turn out to be good. On the other hand, compare what happens when basically anyone is ever cast to play Wonder Woman in anything: the Internet erupts with trolls (mostly male) dissecting their body type, demanding she be played by a "real woman," deeply bitter that whoever was cast isn't Lynda Carter, outraged if she's been put in pants because the feminists are ruining everything. The reason for the difference is that the latter example isn't just about "change;" Wonder Woman is fetish fuel for a lot of her audience in a way that Batman just isn't for most of his, and that's what motivates a lot of the paralyzing fanboy scrutiny of her physicality.

Or compare and contrast, say, NuTrek detractors vs. the "black stormtrooper" row with Star Wars. A lot of the changes people bitch about in NuTrek, for example, catch heat for being deliberately silly, not just for being changes (like the underwater Enterprise, say, or freezing volcanoes with "cold fusion," or the films' cartoony presentation of space or Starfleet); it's a pretty tiny minority by comparison who give a @!#% about the colours of nacelles. Now these differences of opinion depend a lot on what various people hope for and look for from Trek, but they're generally about something a lot more specific than just "change" (much as those fans defensive about the criticisms might like to think otherwise). The "black stormtrooper" row, by contrast, isn't even about change, because there was simply never any reason to assume stormtroopers wouldn't be playable by someone of any ethnic background. It's a very stark example of people being outraged that a black person appeared on their movie screen at all in something they were hoping to watch; in other words, just straight-up racism in its rawest, simplest form.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I think he's right and tapped into something that didn't occur to me before. Some of just hate change.

Congratulations on finally waking up from your decade's long coma. Seriously, you just noticed that a lot of nerds have a problem with changes being made to their favorite fandom properties? This board would look like a ghost town if that weren't the case. Complaining about changes to the sacred texts and historical documents are like half the threads here.

 

[thumbtack]

Well, at least they didn't focus exclusively on Star Trek nerds.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

One factor you do get with "nerds" over Joe Six Pack or whatever is that they really love and are invested in the genre worlds. Larry touches on that a bit about explaining the change. From what I've seen change itself isn't always an issue if it's done well, it's the seemingly arbitrary changes that are harder to take.

nuTrek does amuse me though with fans saying the detractors can't handle change as they go off to watch *Kirk and Spock fight Khan*

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think he has it right but not generally enough: People hate change. Not just nerds. Nerds just react to changes to the TV shows they like because that's their stuff. Fox News is a national monument to fear of change.

Also I think a fair defense is that nerds accept change in the long run when they change it to something better. When people heard that in the new Battlestar Galactica, Starbuck was a woman, and Boomer was a cylon, they hated the idea. Then they got over it when they realized the show was actually really good.

 

[Kelthaz]

I think he has it right but not generally enough: People hate change. Not just nerds.

Bingo.

 

[Mojochi]

It's easy to single out nerds for their rigid need for things to not change. We're the most passionate about the things we like. That's why they call us nerds. A nerd is someone categorically more invested in something than the average person. Now, there is a myriad of other reasons for hateful comments. Racism, sexism, bigotry, prejudice, fear, fear, fear, and all the other things that nerds surely don't have a monopoly on in our world

But you can find pages of people going on about football's instant replay & refereeing, & salary caps, & artificial turf vs natural, & female reporters in the locker room, & whatever else changes in the sports world. It's exactly the same thing. People will undoubtedly like "It" their way, whatever it is & whatever the reason

This is why it's hard to come down on religion, when it's just a symptom of a larger condition, our need to migrate somewhere we feel we belong & then own it. The curse of being social animals

 

[RJDiogenes]

Are there really people complaining about Blacks in Star Wars and women in Ghostbusters? I thought that was some goofy media hype. There were already Blacks in Star Wars and women in Ghostbusters. If it's true, it has nothing to do with hating change and all to do with bigotry. I suspect, though, that it's just a handful of empty barrels making a lot of noise, and a controversy-hungry media giving them undeserved attention. Not that there's any lack of stupidity in the world....

I don't know about the Batman thing, since I'm not really a fan. When it comes to nuTrek, I suppose you could say it's about change-- the change from adult storytelling to mindless garbage. But that's really more about quality and artistic integrity than change.

What was the purpose of the piece? Were they hyping some particular movie that's going to be bad and the studio wants to make it the audience's fault? It seems kind of odd for an entertainer to complain about "nerds hating change" in an era of short attention spans and novelty-based soap operas.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think it's unfair to single out "nerds" and their love of various properties.

I mean, no sports fans have bitch-fits when their favorite team brings on a new player or lets a favorite player go. Or changes a mascot, changes cities, changes their name, builds a new stadium, etc.

No daytime programing fans freak out over cast changes or major changes in story arcs, or new panel members on daytime talk shows.

So why dump on "nerds" and their comic-book and sci-fi properties? Everyone hates changes and gets upset over things when they become different or unusual things are introduced.

 

[Morpheus 02]

i think part of the problem is that a few people say some outrageous things, and a mass amount of people overreact.

So the above "contorversies" were started by what, 300 people? That's 1 1/millionth of the US population.... They say something stupid, and 10,000 people angrily react to that one person, and maybe 500 say something stupid to support the outrageous comment. So social media, and then "regular" media, make it an "equal" fight (like Republicans & Democrats).

Also, it depends on if the producers make something that captures the "essence" of the character, so any changes to the original story/concept are easily forgiven. And if they can acknowledge some aspects of the "original" material, it excites old fans. Some examples might be the first 2 X-Men movies or the new Flash series, which fans of the comic or the 90's series get some respectful tie-ins to the original.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

But you can find pages of people going on about football's instant replay & refereeing, & salary caps, & artificial turf vs natural, & female reporters in the locker room, & whatever else changes in the sports world. It's exactly the same thing. People will undoubtedly like "It" their way, whatever it is & whatever the reason

Oh, totally. It's not hard to find pages and pages of people calling football players wusses because of the rules designed to prevent career ending injuries and concussions.

A lot of British people were up in arms when they put a retractable roof on centre court at Wimbledon because apparently, rain delays that last for days and completely shut down all play is tradition. And for similar reasons Wimbledon is the only tournament left where there isn't a final set tiebreaker, so it's possible for final sets to go to 63-61 and last hours and hours until somebody breaks serve, because it's tradition.

Hell, I'm still a little pissed about getting a point for losing in the NHL. I don't mind the shootouts but a loss should just be a loss, zero points. Damn it NHL, if you want teams to be more aggressive in overtime, make it three points for a win and one point for a tie like soccer! Teams will go all out to avoid a tie.

I think the complaint about the black stormtrooper was more based on the misconception that every stormtrooper is a clone of Jenga Fett.

 

[Wadjda]

It could had lead to an interesting conversation long term if it was not for the keeping it 100 segment. It was to short to discuss the issue.

 

[Kelthaz]

I think the complaint about the black stormtrooper was more based on the misconception that every stormtrooper is a clone of Jenga Fett.

I offer up my geek card in repentance, but I fell for that misconception. After watching the prequels, I believed that all the Stormtroopers in the OT were still clones of Jango Fett. We never saw any Stormtroopers with their helmets off in the OT and I forgot about Luke talking about joining the Imperial Academy.

My "outrage" was merely due to a perceived canon violation. Once I found out about my error I was cool.

 

[sidious618]

Nerds are definitley complainers when it comes to change and for a group that watches material that preaches open-mindedness, a lot of nerds are racist and sexist. It's very disheartening. I remember a comic writer, I think it was Mark Waid, who said about fans complaining about comics trying to be more diverse: "You know that your heroes would hate you, right?"

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think the lack of diversity in comic book heroes is more to do with the fact that nobody wants to write any material for a character who hasn't already been popular for over 50 years.

I can see not wanting to change the ethnicity or gender of a character who has existed for decades just for diversity's sake. I think there's legitimate criticism if you change long-existing characters' races and genders that it comes off as a cynical grab at a political correctness badge rather than a genuine act of inclusiveness. If Hollywood writers would come up with some new superheroes that didn't exist before most of us were born, of course there should be a full range of races and genders. I think nerds would be tolerant of that.

If modern writers weren't too lazy to come up with actual new ideas we'd have lots of non-white and female superheroes. It's the writers from the 1940s and 1950s who created the superheroes Hollywood is still leaning on who were racist.

I think a valid rebuttal to criticism of nerds not wanting people to change their stuff is, "Why do you want to change my stuff when you can just write your own new stuff and do whatever you want with it? Oh right, because you want my money."

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nerds are definitley complainers when it comes to change and for a group that watches material that preaches open-mindedness, a lot of nerds are racist and sexist. It's very disheartening. I remember a comic writer, I think it was Mark Waid, who said about fans complaining about comics trying to be more diverse: "You know that your heroes would hate you, right?"

OTOH, he was the guy who asked "When is the real Superman coming back?" After COIE and the Byrne relaunch.

But yeah, some Fanboys would be the bad guys in comics.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Fanboys were the bad guy in The Incredibles.

 

[Wadjda]

Nerds are definitley complainers when it comes to change and for a group that watches material that preaches open-mindedness, a lot of nerds are racist and sexist. It's very disheartening. I remember a comic writer, I think it was Mark Waid, who said about fans complaining about comics trying to be more diverse: "You know that your heroes would hate you, right?"

People would complain if there were long running 200 issue Black Panther comic or Doctor Voodoo? If you start race-bending and gender-bending of course there will be complaints.

 

[Kelthaz]

Nerds are definitley complainers when it comes to change and for a group that watches material that preaches open-mindedness, a lot of nerds are racist and sexist. It's very disheartening.

Oh, that's complete bullshit. Nerds are no worse or better than the general population.